Becoming a Slave

... ish. Of COURSE the decision regarding whom to grant such power is one not to be made lightly, but that doesn't make the decision itself, once MADE, any less valid or real. By definition, in a voluntary power exchange, one must first have selected the person to whom to hand over power. So pointing that out really ISN'T saying anything important.

That doesn't mean power wasn't, in fact, handed over. Nor does it mean you're always going to like or even AGREE with the decisions the person to whom you've handed that power makes, yet if you're serious, you'll ultimately abide by them regardless. Because gosh darnit, that's what a power exchange is after all.

See now?

Not at all, to be honest, but perhaps that's just me.

And I accept you are sincere and convinced of your views, which is quite okay with me as well.

I shall, however, always treat you like a free individual fully responsible for your own actions.

As you like.

And I, in turn, shall always endeavor to respect your wishes and treat you exactly as you would like to be treated, to the extent that such does not directly conflict with my own life or expectations placed upon me.

I always thought that being a slave meant groveling in the dirt and obeying all commands sooner than they were spoken but it looks like I am wrong. Seems like nowadays they have a handbook and rules for everything including being a slave.

Whatever happened to the good old days when a slave was treated like a piece of garbage? There must be a slave union or something.

My suggestion is to forget what the manual says and just be your slavey self. If you demand rights as a slave then you aren't a slave.

My perception of reality is that choices are always being made by the individuals involved in anything less than genuine, real-life slavery. To attempt to surrender one's will to another involves actively choosing to do so in every act. Opting. Choosing. Every time.

So where exactly is the surrender? I don't see it.

So - what exactly is the goal here? Obviously there's a psychological dynamic that lots of people understand viscerally, and that lots of other people (me included), simply don't get. All this stuff about training... I have friends and loved ones who have involved themselves in this lifestyle. It just doesn't seem to work - not well, anyway. These relationships don't seem to work out, there are all sorts of unspoken rules and expectations, including the probability that things won't work out... lots of these people seem to thrive on chaos, drama, and possibly damage.

Can someone describe the attraction of all this? In English?

Becoming a slave means that you give up all free will. In other words you no longer have to make decisions. They are made for you thus your mind is free.

It draws certain people for reasons other people won't understand. I don't really understand, since it doesn't draw me. I DO however, understand that everyone is attracted to different sorts of relationships and that no method works perfectly and without drama.

Human beings can manufacture drama out of a toothpaste cap. Relationships based upon the transfer of power are not immune, and neither are 'vanilla' relationships.

In the US, at least, even very plain vanilla male/female marriages break up pretty often. If you take the general relationship out of that legally binding context, it's harder to track but I doubt there are any LESS breakups, fights, drama, etc.

In any relationship there are unspoken rules and expectations. A single date simply doesn't give the expectation of a long term committed relationship. Neither does the third... or the fourth... or a year of relationship. There are no guarantees- it's all a matter of taste and preferences. If you're still trying to FIND your partner(s), you're probably going to have to kiss a lot of frogs to find your proverbial prince. Some of them are going to be terrible, some are going to be okay, but ALL those relationships will have a certain amount of chaos until you find the person that you can live with.

Any relationship has to start somewhere. I remember sitting in my car at a dead end screaming at my boyfriend for being an insensitive jerk. There was drama. There were tears. There were hurts. There were also times when we'd sit down and it would just be perfect. He made me so happy I could scream- and so mad I could, and did, cry. It took us 3 years to be willing to talk civilly enough to each other to go out on a date, 2 more years to admit that we were "long term" and 5 more years before we got engaged. It's been 14 years and we STILL have amazingly terrible drama over the stupidest things. There are STILL times when we wonder if we can really make this work out for a lifetime.

That's LIFE. That's a part of the give and take in having a relationship- any relationship- with another living breathing human being with differing dreams, needs, and wants.


I've never worn a collar. I never will. I cannot let go enough- I have to have enough control to call my limits and I'm a very distrustful person when it comes to those limits because they've been violated in the past. But there are moments when I'm the aggressor and moments when I love being chased *and caught* that I can understand, at least a part, what makes those kind of relationships work.

I couldn't have a long term relationship with someone who expected obedience from me, but I also couldn't have a long term relationship with someone who always saw us as such perfect equals that he didn't feel the occasional urge to chase me around the house or couldn't understand why sometimes I want to push him around a bit too.

It may not be what you or I would choose, but it's certainly a valid choice.

All reasonable responses. Yet something just really doesn't make sense. Abdicating control so you can be free? That means what, exactly? There must be some connection to an emotional dynamic there that's just opaque to me. Clearly, the pet chooses to abdicate. It's a choice, made in every encounter with the mistress/master. That's not slavery. It's a kind of consensual fantasy roleplay. The logic of the situation defeats the content OF the roleplay. So what exactly is happening?

I guess as a person who had to start figuring out life at a very early age for myself, the notion of giving "control" to another person who may, at some later date, turn out to be some kind of charming, manipulative horror... nah. Not for me.

I learned very early that in a country like America - barring typhoons and the like - where you get in life is pretty much where you chose to go. I still don't see where these so-called "pets" are giving up their power of choice. They may pretend to...

Then again, there are lots of emotions in this world that don't follow logic at all. I find that people are simply unable to explain what draws them to the lifestyle.

Can anyone help out here?

It's different for us all. For me the attraction is in having pets who are not looking for a sexual relationship, or expecting that I spend my waking moments serving their fantasies, but whose goal is to make me happy. To be in that sort of relationship, where each party's only goal is to be happy, without the sex, without the money, without the 'equality' of a 'normal' relationship, that's what draws me to it.

I couldn't get away with asking my partners to do the things I ask my pets to do. This lifestyle allows me to fulfill needs that can't be fulfilled in the relationships I engage in publicly.

That, and I really like knowing that if I want something done, it'll be done.



That's part of the attraction. They choose to let go and do was they're told. It can be very fulfilling for someone who is normally in control of situations, or someone who simply likes the structure that being a submissive can bring.

It means "free from responsibility." Freedom is responsibility, and responsibility is freedom (the extent to which you have the two is directly proportional), so surrendering freedom means surrendering responsibility, thereby becoming "free" from it, at least in some ways.

"But why would you want that?"

Well, there are a few reasons.

For one, some of us are just naturally good Indians and naturally poor Chiefs -- we're very good at taking orders and following them and very, very bad on our own. It's popular to think that we should all want to be Chiefs, but in reality, what we should be trying to do instead is to be true to ourselves as we really are.

Beyond that, from the sexual perspective, there's a certain sense that ... let's say ... in surrendering freedom, we can embrace without shame or doubt our sexuality, our ...

... but it's not just that, is it?

Ugh. It's so difficult to explain this. Why are we submissive? God, what a question.

It's like trying to explain love, or any other emotion, for that matter. At first it seems like it should be easy enough to explain -- after all, you've felt it! But then you try, and ... you can't.

Yet it's real. Very, very real.



There you go.

Love is the perception of deep connection with someone else, who shows qualities you desire. It's probably mediated by brain chemistry, but dependent psychologically on specific traits that appear desirable to an individual, and selected, probably, by upbringing and experience. Apparent strength, or dependence, or verbal skill, emotional warmth, (or lack of it), appearance... create this perception. Does the other person SHARE that perception? Good question! "I'm in love with you." "Yeah, but...".

Whether a given person falls for another depends on their perception of that person. Is that perception "correct"?

I saw a really pretty smart person I know in SL nearly fall to her knees in a spasm of infatuated desire, simply by seeing a smartly dressed friend of mine who was wearing an Insolence skin. Perception. She saw a collection of pixels she liked.

That said, I do have SL love . "Real" SL love. My partner and I have been best of online friends for more than two years, and recently became romantic. We share many personality traits, we're both very verbal, we have similar senses of humor, we communicate wonderfully - it's love. The "real" thing We both perceive it.


Here's another aspect to the whole question. I've known several people involved in d/s now who appear to enjoy rough treatment and domination. They've been virtually abused, caged - the lot. Makes them happy? They don't leave...

Yet, and I've seen this a couple of times - these same people tell me that they really yearn for tender love, and wish they could have that as well. I've heard some really brutal stories about the stuff these people roleplay... yet another part of them - apparently quite unfulfilled by their bdsm roleplay - goes quite unsatisfied. Any more insights to share?

trust me i was very skeptical of the d/s lifestyle and started reading up on it because my rl husband had been introduced to it by someone here in sl

we had joked about it before in our marriage years and years ago when a coworker of his wanted to take me to a dominatrix class...i laughed and said nahh not for me

since we first met i have always been sub to him but didnt know how to put it into words

sexually, emotionally, physically i have always been sub to him

he takes care of me, protects me, decides what is best for me, he knows that i am not into pain and would never try to inflict in on me in rl but we have played it out in sl i may like a lil rough sex play in rl but nothing that hurts really bad or would leave physical marks, in return i take care of him i do my best to please him in all ways and to the best of my ability i do the tasks he assigns me to do for the day yes there are some days i do not completely accomplish things and i get punished if its my fault but its always simple punishments like less computer time or things along those lines that he knows i enjoy

i wear his collar proudly in sl and in rl and i know that what we have is special

it is very hard to put this all into words granted there are days when he teases me cuz i get a bit willful and teasingly tell him no about things but its normally my way of pushing the envelope to see what he will do, but no one can deny in sl or in rl how much love, careing, compassion and passion we share

ok now im rambling it is time for sleep lol

Is it really unsatisfied and a need? If so, the relationship probably isn't giving them everything they need out of it and probably won't be happy for both in the long term. Kissing a lot of frogs, so to speak.

But, sometimes what we long for *right now* matters more to us than what we long for *long term*. Not all relationships are meant to be forever, even in the moment. I dated a guy once who was great fun, but when I talked about the arts and my interest in literature his eyes glazed over and he just never understood. It was a fun time in my life- I enjoyed my time with him, but I could never have chosen him for a life partner.

When someone says- This is a thing I long for and do not have- it does not necessarily mean- I am not happy or I will never be happy. It is possible to be content with life while waiting for everything else to fall into place. Perhaps the life they lead right now is enough to content them while they wait for the kind of relationship that happens so rarely.

Someone who can give them moments of tenderness, and moments of forceful play.... there's a line ot draw there and it's different for everyone.

As for what submission is- it's different for everyone. To some it's a collar and no responsibilities. To others it's a little pain with pleasure. To others it's a strong touch that doesn't mean to hurt or coerce, simple to entice. To some it's an entire life, to others it's a game. You can't really explain it because most can only cover their experiences and there's such a wide variety it would take a book to cover all of the differences.

It's okay to not understand everyone. Understand your chosen partners needs and wants and you should be fine enough =)

An M/s relationship without love is like icing without a cake.

Is it possible to own someone and truly love them? You could love them like a possession, or perhaps like a pet, but do you truly love them as a person?

Become a nun?

Join the army?

--- and can anyone explain why the "quote" function on these forums does not always seem to work for me please.

Define ownership of a person. Do you own their thoughts, ideas, expressions, mind, self? Or do you simply own their actions and responsibilities?

If the owner considers ownership body and soul and their slave is nothing more than an elaborately scripted object to play with- then no. I don't believe there can be real love.

Short of that? Depending on the couple at hand, I think there can be love. I can love a newborn child even though they are capable of little more than basic survival communication- similar to my cat in ability to express a personality. By the same token while I enjoy my favorite quilt, the emotion I feel towards it is as far separated from the love and affection I feel for my Siamese as is my love and affection for a newborn child.

My quilt will never be capable of understanding my affection for it, on any level.

Sebastian, my cat, can understand some aspects of my love and affection and return them in a very limited fashion. We are two tamed animals cohabiting the same apartment with a certain degree of respect and give and take while being utterly inable to communicate beyond the basics. (I give food and play, he gives companionship and play)

A child can understand some aspects of my love and affection and return them in a still limited fashion.... but instead of treating each other as equals of separate species- I am the adult, the provider of home, food, and clothing. It is a very dominant position for the adult, but not an owner/object relationship. In many ways this follos the kind of play slavery with love and giving from both ends but clear dom/sub context- it's uncomfortable for many who DON'T want it or crave it BECAUSE it's sexual, but related to the same feelings that were there between adults and children. It's a return to childhood without reverting to a child's body and to a state of total innocence.

(Which, for the record, isn't the method of all dom/sub relationships, but related well to the objectification that was mentioned)

A pair of adults can communicate and return all aspects of love and affection and choose to treat each other as equals or inequals as they prefer- it's a deeper relationship in many fashions because there's a deep exchange of ideals, needs, and wants that's not possible when talking to an object, a pet, or a child because of the limited scope of communication/experience.

The scope of imagined consequence of the person determines the potential depth of the relationship. I've had friends that I knew about as well as my cat- we were humans sharing the same space with companionship but little to no exchange of personal aspects. The affection I feel for them is limited, but still very real.

To tie it into something that more people can directly relate to- Some griefers tend to view others as purely objects to be manipulated and/or controlled. There must be some shred of empathy created to change them- without empathy for their victims, their victims will continue to be nothing more than objects without feelings or emotions. I don't think a griefer could love their victims.

I guess I'm labouring the point, but it seems to me that this is quite childish - it's the little girl seeking her daddy syndrome. The problems come if "daddy" sells his "slave"; then the rejection can be quite real.

You cannot own another person's actions and responsibilities - nor can you delegate your own to another! Even is the most desparate of circumstances where I could be forced to do something against my will - I still own my own actions and I still have at least the level of responsibility to make it clear that I am being forced to act.

Somehow I keep thinking of the case in the German Courts of the pair that met via the internet - one a cannibal and the other wanting to be eaten. When the case came to trial the defence was that it was a consensual act so no crime was committed - he was a willing victim so it was not murder.

Seems that the lifestyle isn't for you then. But I'd be careful in distilling the attraction to other people into such a singular, simplistic idea. People are more complicated than that and their reasons and needs span a vast range.

No, I'm afraid I'm a grown up now and I have to take responsibility for myself, my family and my job - in short for my life. I have no expectations of another taking on responsibility for me - not in the immediate future anyway - but who knows what may happen to any one of us? I could suffer a serious accident and become wholly dependent. I may grow old and suffer from dementia - but as long as I am of sound mind and capable of managing for myself, I will not burden another with responsibility for my actions; a responsibility which I should rightly and properly bear myself.

/me applauds. [Wishes there were more such.]

Of course, sexual fantasies are a whole other subject from RL. There, I'd say it is whatever rings your chimes, especially in a case like SL, where you can log out at any time and never return, if you choose.

You should of course do what's right for you; I for one never suggested otherwise.

It would be nice if you were willing to respect my decision and that of those like me in the same way that I respect your decision and that of those like you, but that clearly isn't going to happen, and happily, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it ANY more than I will over The Person Formerly Known as Dyerbrook's opinions of me.