Becoming a Slave

*waves to Bilbo*

I have a RL friend who is so submissive that she even awakes in me a urge to care and to protect, while I am far away from being a Domme.

She is good friend and learned me a lot... and yes, it is for a very normal to me.

Morwen.

*waves to Morwen & bilbo*

I have a few friends that are quite active in the BDSM scene and to me it's a fascinating thing, although not submissive myself I admire those that are. The fact that it's completely based on trust is the thing that fascinates me the most.

*collars bilbo*

Mandy C

Grrr..... it was my turn!!!!!!


*waves to Mandy*

Morwen.

Ok, ok...grumpy. *hands leash to Morwen*

Mandy C

Gaannndaaallfff!!

*collars bilbo to*

I wonder how many we can fit on him before he looks like one of those african neck straching tribes women *grins*

Interesting thread.

Going back to something that was said by Sebastian’s "owner" make no mistake about it having some experience of Cats there is no way they are slaves. In fact it is the complete opposite, the Cat agrees to grace yourself with its presence in return for you taking care of all its needs and desires. So who is the slave there you or the Cat! -

Take Dogs, an even more cunning intellect. They "make out" you are the master and the Dog will duly obey all orders (eventually) to the best of its understanding, yet it requires the same deal as the Cat, in fact with bells on because it requires you to be with it all the time you are physically nearby. It even insists you take it out for a walk.

Some Dogs have been known to fake illness in order to get special care and treatment; others get genuinely depressed and now take human anti depression drugs such as Prozac.

Which leads me on to another point. Dogs and Cats in my own opinion are very definably self aware, I have observed this over more than 20 odd years of obedient service to their assorted needs.

Finally I do think some intelligences seek a type of slavery providing the risk/reward scenarios works in their favour, this applies to humans as a species too. Perhaps it is part of a type of evolutionary species pressure, after all both Dogs, Cats, and Humans come in a variety of different shapes and colours, why not accept that in some cases evolutionary pressure can shape free will decision making.

There are a few very good educational Gorean Sims , stop by House IAOMAI sometime , its a Gorean educational sim ANONE can take classes there and learn, but yes there are also some very bad Gorean sims, its like anywhere you have good and bad, but to say any Gorean sim will let you join is not correct, its my understanding there is a lengthy process that someone wishing to actually join House of Iaomai has to go through, and there are rules there that all have to adhear by , Gorean is a culture just like any culture. Wiccans, Pagans, Vamps, Gor, Jewish, Mormans, its all the same a culture, all cultures have rules that have been set for ages. THis is just my honest opnion of course.

Gorean culture could be termed a culture, but it is a highly limited one. It only really works well in online worlds because to succeed in it, you have to be a young, handsome/beautiful, sexually functional adult. Old people, children, ugly, fat, sexually dysfuntional - these tend to throw in a monkey wrench, and the culture has no place for it.

I'm not saying it's not a culture, just saying it isn't a complete or realistic one, and I think that's largely the appeal.

Hmmm, I wouldnt use culture to describe it.

Vamps and Gor are based on fictional works,

Like Trekkies or Star wars fans.

They are cult followings.


Wiccans, Pagans, Mormans are more modern takes on older spiritual ideas.

While Jewish culture is extremely old and diverse.

Im sorry, but a cult following around some books that started in the 1960's does not compare very well to the history of a people that started in 1800 BC.

Perhaps Gor is a "culture" but its a very small thing compared to the Culture that spawned the religion of billions of people (Judaism is the cornorstone of Islam AND Christianity afterall)

Now some might say the bible is a fictional work - of course thats possible - however that does not mean the Scope and Scale of the bible is on the level of the Gor Books.

WOW I agree with Colette! You can hardly compare Judaism with Vampires! Please don't compare real religions with fictitious cults. It's deeply DEEPLY offensive.

No.

The problem is NOT with society overall. You and your friends have interests and desires outside of the mainstream. You've found a way to practice these interests that doesn't hurt another soul. That's wonderful. Have at it.

Don't, however, try to play it off as society's limitation for failing to embrace or practice your fetish.

I didn't take her statement to mean that at all. What it said to me is that she believes the reason people can be so judgmental on the topic is because they can't imagine doing it themselves. I don't think she was pushing for everyone to embrace BDSM itself, just to maintain a live and let live attitude about it.

Calling Gor a culture is ridiculous. It is a bunch of people who read a mediocre series of books and wish to play act what they read. Nothing wrong with that. But to try to elevate it into some sort of culture or actual lifestyle is a bit mutch.

Live and let live, absolutely. A master-slave relationship is well outside the mainstream. Practictioners of this lifestyle have to expect to be seen as different. They ARE different. It's not society's fault for pushing a culture of individualism.

If IIRC from my college days the anthropologycal definition of culture revolves about whatever the human race can do. All they have created and so on and so forth.

So, while this definition will be extremely open, under it, Gor is a culture (since the books are part of a culture).

From Wikipedia: "In general, the term culture denotes the whole product of an individual, group or society of intelligent beings"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture

Then again, there are definitions of culture that are more "requiring" than the antrophological one

Food for thought.

I don't believe you are being fair heer Sioban, Angelique (thru all her posts) has only been trying to explain the differences between the lifestyle (for me broadly power exchange relationship) to "vanilla" relationships.

In no place her or anybody else has been trying to convince you or somebody else to be a part of it or to place guilt on the society at large.

There is something true about her statement that can apply to many other cultural areas as well. For some people in non western cultures, eating raw meat is normal and even tasty; I've known too many people that consider that disgusting. What about poligamy, for some is ok, for many others is not.

Society as a whole defines the ethics of the people involved in it, and each society has their own set of rules.

...did I make any sense here?

It's always a bad idea to make sweeping statements about the nature of humanity such as "being adult means X" or "Any normal person would feel/do Y."

The fact is, nearly any form of culture you can imagine has been tried and lived in the history of our species. Hardcore slavery (no rights of the downtrodden), consensual slavery, polygamy, monogamy, matriarchy, patriarchy, etc. etc. The more you study cultures and history, the more you realize there isn't much of anything you can point to as 'human nature' in terms of relationships, other than we have a tendency to want to procreate.

The truth is, in America, we have all been fed a steady diet of "Freedom is good; being an individual is good; we are all equal." I'm not saying this is a bad viewpoint, but it's not the viewpoint that many cultures in many times across the globe have held. There have been very valid arguments and beliefs to the contrary, and not just held by the 'masters' but by the 'servants.'

I'm just saying that it's not a good thing here to project one's own cultural values upon other people in order to call them 'deviant' and yourself 'normal.' People who do that rarely have a grasp of the wide scope of humanity.

Sorry, but the "mainstream" is not the end-all be-all of what's right, or even on the same planet as what's right half of the time. It used to be "mainstream" to scream racial slurs at black people and treat women like mindless baby-making machines. It's STILL pretty mainstream to discriminate against people based on sexual orientation, and it used to be frighteningly worse.

Let's be honest for a moment: the average twit on the street harbors an incredible array of ridiculously irrational and obviously false beliefs and really basically just goes along with whatever the herd tells him or her to think, and THAT'S where your "mainstream" is coming from.

(Edited to express this a little more politely.)

My girl alex will be editing her post to express herself better. How she chose to Post was Not acceptable and I Apologize to you all.

Angel.

I can understand why she's cranky...I probably would be too, if I were witnessing something I found fulfilling being critiqued like this.

I Understand her frustration also Ma Chere, But i have taught her to express herself better. I have always felt that if something cannot be said without resorting to Foul Language it isn't something worthy of being said.
I love my Girls, and i want what's best for them. I give them Confidence, i give them a Voice Worth Hearing.
Some of you might be confused as to why I apologized for something my girl did. The answer is quite simple, I am responsible for her. I teach and guide her. Her failings are Mine, Her triumphs are Mine. THAT is the responsibility of our relationship. That is one of the requirements of this Lifestyle, To be responsible for another person. To Put someone else ahead of our own selfish Interests.


Don is correct here, If our life sounds like something one wishes to explore, then by all means do so, but i am the first one to point out our way of life is NOT for everyone. I have said many times that there are Those (Far too many) who should Not be in this Lifestyle due to thier Inability to abandon thier own selfishness, or Understand that they ARE responsible for another Persons Wellbeing. I frequently dissuade people from entering this Lifestyle.
My observation of Western societies Focus on Total Individuality is not an indictment , it's One Possible (and very plausable) reason the "Mainstrem" does Not understand our way of life, And a reason why they find it a Little Intimidating. After all, it Is difficult to conceive of give up a Lifetime of Conditioned self Centeredness in favor of a Deeper responsibility.

Ask me about my life, and Of Course I'm going to tell you the Positive things it holds. In this i'm no different from anybody else. Point out Possible Drawbacks, and i will explain them from My point of View. Sioban, Asking people to Understand, to Speak from a place of Knowledge Rather than Darkness Isn't asking people to Embrace the Lifestyle. It's only asking that if they present an opinion, it be an Informed one.

Angel.

Absolutely! Right can be, at times, relative.

Society may not be right according to your predilections, but it's what you are living in. Enjoy your fetish, practice it without hurting others, but don't be shocked when you are considered outside of the norm.

Society changes when the majority change opinion. It's not likely that this will happen in this case. We're really not likely to become generally accepting of slavery, even of a voluntary kind. Unless you decide to move to a place where slavery is acceptable (and there are such places, but you'd probably be giving up more than you know or care to), you're going to have to deal with what people think of you or say to you.

It's your choice to carry out this fetish and it's your choice to live in a culture that considers slavery to be well outside the norm.

Basicly if you dont like being a slave or any of that stay out of it. And as for a personal oppion keep it to yourself unless someone ask for it. What you think or dislikes who really cares cause I am sure there are things others dont like about you.

From what some masters have said, many slaves quit after a few weeks of training when the reality sets in about how boring it is. You could always go afk though and say something like "girl is deep in thought" when you want to catch repeats of Arrested Development.