My Afternoon as a Slave in Training

Kitty makes some excellent points about abuse vs BDSM.

The way I have experienced this is that for those who are not naturally "kinked", BDSM looks, from the outside looking in (or even as a "guest participant", like abuse. It wears the "mask" of abuse. People see the collars zapping (something I never used, but some do), the verbal humiliation, the ordering and the compliance, the infliction of pain, etc. It all looks to an outsider, or a non-kinked guest, like hierarchy and abuse and self-denigration. That, however, is the "mask" of BDSM. What is going on underneath that "mask" is, if things are healthy and not truly abusive (as could a non-BDSM relationship also be), an intimate exchange of shared, symbiotic needs -- the needs of both the submissive and the dominant. It's simply another way of loving, specific to people who have kinky needs.

It's hard to describe to a non-kinked person (or for a non-kinked person to understand) how unfulfilling a non-kinked relationship can be for such people. Like any other matching, people need to be compatible with each other sexually, and things like erotic BDSM are tied into someone's sexuality rather tightly. It's a deep need, it doesn't generally go away. So what you see in BDSM couples is a couple like any other, except that the needs that they fulfill for each other are perhaps less common, more special, more exceptional.

A good movie to see this perspective is the film "Secretary" with James Spader and Maggie Gyllenhaal. It portrays the kind of relationship quite well, I think, even though parts are overdone for effect.



Yes, most definitely. Communication and perspective are key. Rose, I think, sees being told to strip and pole dance as being inherently humiliating -- which is fine, because that is her perspective. But the perspective of a submissive could be very different (and different submissives will all have different perspectives too). Matching and compatibility are also key -- ideally a dom and sub are matched such that their interests more or less pair up and they can satisfy each other's needs without stepping outside their own zones of interest, as it were.

Hi cat,
Yes, been there, covered that. There is a thread abut that part here as well but that is not really what we are discussing ATM. I understand you need to defiend your choice of life, but I hope you understand it does come off as attacking her, which is a big problem she is dealing with now. If you feel like I am being to harsh, ask your Jarl to read your post and mine and i will speak to him if he feels it is warrented.

Rose had an experience that freaked her and we are talking her down and helping her understand. She is going through subdrop and does not even know there is such a thing.

If we could teach this to the world at large, it would be a much nicer place to live. ake the time and effort to know what the really want. Flowres are nice but not if the make you sneeze, or remind you of an ex.

Ah. Here is another note that I think is key. I find nude pole-dancing in front of a group of strange men humiliating. Not everyone does. I won't claim the purpose of this was to humiliate the slaves. In thinking about the situation, I think the auctioneer wanted to see nude pole-dancers and whether we found it enjoyable, stimulating, distasteful, or humiliating wasn't of interest to anyone.

I see it this way: The slave will do as the master demands, because it pleases the master, regardless of whether it is in the slave's best interests or not. Isn't this a case of one person using another? A case where what the master wants is the only concern, and the slave is objectified, only a means to satisfy the master's desires?

Am I seeing all of this wrongly?

Subdrop? Is that what's going on with me?
/me giggles
Thank you. You are right: I was clueless. Thank you, Yosef.

This is true, and there are two consequences.

The first is that the slave enjoys such treatment, in which case it's consensual and both parties get something out of it. So it's BDSM, and everyone's a winner.

The second is that the slave doesn't get what she's looking for, in which case she eventually walks away. What you had there was incompatibility more than abuse.

It's also worth nothing that in my philosophy of BDSM, a dominant that consistently acts contrary to the submissive's best interests isn't a very good dominant. It's worth noting that a dominant might have a different idea of what's in a submissive's best interest than the submissive herself.

/me chuckles

So true, Yosef.

You have to be careful to assume that the submissive doesn't (a) enjoy being ordered around and (b) enjoy being displayed like that in public. She may love it, while you find it self-denigrating and humiliating. Perspective is key. Now you found it objectifying, humiliating and so forth, which is fine. Another may find it exciting, arousing and fulfilling. It's a difference in perspective which determines how this is experienced.



Consent is the difference. As Kitty pointed out, a kiss can be abusive too if unwanted -- it's an assault, in fact, if unwanted. But not all kisses are assaults. If someone does something to you that you do not consent to and it hurts you, that may be abuse (and probably is in most cases), but that's a far cry from the submissive who wants nothing more than for her dominant to restrain her, or to spank her, or to whip her, because she "gets off on it" quite a bit when he does that. The key differences are perspective and consent.

The slave will do what the master demands because it pleases the master, AND because it pleases the slave to please the master. And the master *should* care very much about the slave's best interests. For me, at least, that is the absolute crux of being a sub: getting real pleasure from obeying and serving a loved and trusted dominant. If this is something that would give you no pleasure, then almost by definition you are not a sub (having said that, BDSM is such a vast catch-all term that somebody is bound to disagree with that lol).

Rose you wanted to know how it feels to someonein a bdsm relationship.
Below is a very popular story that may give you an insight to the feelings of both Sub and Master.Its not meant as anything other than what it is .. its a story i hope you enjoy it and perhaps gain a small insight into our world.


A confused sub came before a wise Master who adored her. She felt that to submit to him would mean she would open her heart to unbearable pain should he ever leave her. She hungered for him and needed him, but was ready to walk away in panic.

The gentle Master knelt her before him and started a tale of love and devotion. As she looked up at him his arms began to widen and open like a large tree stretches its branches to the sky. At that moment the Master appeared rooted to the floor and his impressive size towered above her like a giant tree. Then he began to speak...

I'm here for you... now and always no matter how far time and space takes us... Whether you walk away from me today or you stay and serve me I will not turn from you. I am as patient as time itself; I will take not from you unless you give freely and completely of yourself, but I give onto you regardless-- for my love is unconditional...

Like the olive tree that can both feed you and shade you, I am there seemingly eternal to your short life on this earth. If you need my fruit to feed your hunger I will give you all the fruit you need. If your skin grows dry and loses its luster, the oil from my fruit will restore it and make it glisten. When you need comfort my leaves will gently caress your face with the slightest breeze. When you need discipline my branches will correct you when the wind blows strong. If you just need my shade to protect you from the sun, my branches will shade and protect you. If you need warmth at night my fallen branches will fuel the fire to keep you warm and safe. If you need a refreshing breeze my leaves will fan you and cool you. You are my gardener.

When you submit to me, you tend that which keeps me vibrant and full of life. When you kneel under me and till the soil, you give breath to my roots. When you water me, my sap flows strong through me raising my limping Branches. When you soil yourself collecting fertilizer with your bare hands, you strengthen and humble me with your devotion.

Although my life will go on, life would not be the same without you. Your dedication and unconditional care for me keeps me vibrant and nurtures my very core. The sustenance and protection I give you seems little reward for your servitude. Still the gardener serves the tree from her heart and the tree gives to her heart all that he can!

I am planted firmly on the ground and cannot follow you if you walk away from me.... But be assured I will survive. One hundred years later and two of your lifetimes; I will still be there, waiting for you in the same spot to offer you all that I do now.

Stay with me and be my gardener. You cannot get lost in me for we are complementary to each other. I am your devotion, and you give meaning to my existence. Apart we live life and survive; together we bloom eternally!

... As the Master finished his last words the sub cried herself to sleep at his feet. That night, he stood planted there like the Olive tree offering her his unconditional love and protection as she slept. As she would tend to him with her devotion the next day... and everyday thereafter!

Is anyone actually reading all these TLDR; essay posts?

I think every covered-for-the-nth-time controversial issue should be debated in flowery essay style.

Or as beat poetry.

Or better still, in the fashion of Marcel Marceau

Only my own.

What is your point?

You really need to step back a bit and look beyond the act at the underlying dynamic.

I hate being in a crowd of people where I don't know anyone, it makes me quite anxious and self-conscious. If a significant other wants to go to a party/event/something where (s)he would know people but I don't know, I'd really rather just not go. It takes me a while to feel comfortable around people I don't know and it's inevitable that (s)he'll will just be all caught up with his/her friends and I'll be on my own.

If he/she doesn't want to go along then I can go along just to please him/her with the understanding that I'm not just going to get abandoned as soon as we get there and that he/she will just nudge me a bit to draw me out of my shell and get me to start enjoying myself and that if I really don't feel comfortable we'll leave.

That's not a fundamentally different situation from what you're describing. If (s)he would just drag me along without taking my feelings into account I wouldn't put up with it any more than I'd put up with a Dom(me) making demands of me that are entirely self-centered.

Not everything has to be something that you enjoy either (I've gone to plenty of things that were utterly boring but where I went along because it meant something to the person I was going with) but you inevitably make sacrifices because interests never fully match and there will be something one enjoys that the other doesn't but you're still doing it together and because you know it makes the other happy.

Finally, the eventual reason I'd go is because I'd trust him/her to not be so caught up that I would be abandoned on entry and be on my own until it's time to leave. And who knows, maybe it won't be as bad as I pictured it all inside my head and I'll have a great time. Maybe I'll hate it and it will be as bad as I thought it would be and I know we'll leave together.

As plain and every day as all of that was it's the same dynamic you get between a Dom(me) and a subbie. A sub might do something solely to please a Dom(me) but you get that in a normal relationship too and it doesn't have to be abusive, it can happen for any number of reasons and it's only when one is forcing the other that you get abuse. And a sub might do something they don't want to do because they trust and know the Dom(me) will be there to keep them safe and to put an end to it if it doesn't work.

As far as SL is concerned, yes you'll find the "I must do as the Dom/me says regardless of how I feel about it, I exist solely for their pleasure, my own desires are irrelevant" blah blah on SL, but that's likely to be just a fantasy RP without much depth.

The ultimate "power" in a D/s relationship doesn't reside with the Dominant, it resides entirely with the sub and it's that fundamental difference that sets it apart from abuse.

Ahem, that story seemed remarkably similar to Shel Silverstein's 'The Giving Tree.' Except, you know, with a submissive instead of a child...

You just made it.




---------------------------------

Didn't mean your posts, Love.

"NO!" (^_^)

!!!

Oh man. Bad kitty! But "Caledon of Gor" just won't fly!

I'll plant a little catnip in the Guvnah's Mansion garden for what coulda been...


*sighs and goes back to his repressed Victorian existence*

O-M-G! Why is this thread still open? If Rose has not absorbed the answers and explanations in these unnecessary 26 pages, then she needs to research it online or speak to someone in game about it rather than keep asking the same questions over and over again. It’s ridiculous! I don’t believe she was ever abused, nor do I believe her questions and continual ignorance are genuine. She stirred up a controversy, got ripped apart, and suddenly seeking sympathy, she reveals that she was abused and it’s the reason she doesn’t understand?
Horse s***!
She’s left, come back, posted on alts – I mean, isn’t it obvious that she’s trying to manipulate everyone with this doe-eyed ‘oh, I’m so lost and coming out of my painful past and I just don’t understand why certain people like this when I think it’s that’ crap? WTF? It is SIMPLE! There are those who enjoy BDSM and you DON’T! Give it up already! If you want to know more, locate someone knowledgeable in game who is willing to discuss it with you, or research online, but quit it already with the act!
If you want to be popular or get your post count up, do so by being constructive and not by acting like some simpering 12-year-old who can’t comprehend the simple, straight-forward answers given here repeatedly for the enlightenment you seem so desperate to obtain but keep purposely tripping over! If you just can’t wrap your head around the whole concept of BDSM, it’s time to be a true lady and bow out gracefully as you claimed to be doing more than a few pages ago.

This thread should have been locked at page 2!

Interesting.

Unfortunately we have no evidence the Mods actually read unreported threads.

So if you would like this thread moderated I guess someone will have to report it.

Sakuro, there's this interesting thing that goes on in forums called 'conversation'...that's what's happening here now. If you don't want to participate, don't, but there's no need to throw a hissy about it.

And Rose admitted it when she accidentally posted on her alt.

Catnip? *perks*







("Caledon of Gor" would be awesome...I'd love to see how the two worked together. )

Corsets would be..... Different. (o.o)

And how many times has she been coddled and answered, yet keeps asking the same shite?
It MORE than leaves her motives as questionable!

If the conversation is that important to her, let her pick it up in game where people can actually help her since apparently nothing anybody is saying in this thread is doing the trick. I just dislike when people put on acts. If she were genuine it would be a different story, but it is so very obvious that she isn’t.

Yes, I’m hostile, and I dun care! You don’t know me, and I don’t know you, but I know cow patties when I see them.

LOL! Let's start a thread on what Caledon of Gor would be like!

Actually, there seem to be a fair number of folks who are into both. Folks who like to roleplay in pretty sims, I guess.

And, I'm sure, many Victorian ladies see more action than your average kajira, who spends a lot of time just sitting around waiting.