My Afternoon as a Slave in Training

I can understand the concept of total trust to the point of letting another make all of your decisions, and I can see the issue of responsibility on the part of the one making the decisions. It sounds like a parent-child relationship where the parent is all-wise and all-powerful, making all decisions for the good of the child, and the child's only responsibility is to do as told.

I can understand this in theory. I have never known another person I would trust to this extent, not my own mother, not my husband in the 22 years of a happy marriage.

Now add to this the variable of the people often attracted to the SL BDSM environment: people looking for a bit of kinky sex, people who are abusive. I don't see how this is an attractive picture.

Well, if you ever reconsider...

I really cannot speak to the motivations of the Dom/mes who come to the slave auctions, but can only speak of my experiences and observations while participating in this lifestyle in SL. I have only had 2 D/s relationships in SL, one with the Master who purchased me, and the other with the Auction Master, neither of which was based on sexual kink.

I am not sure, Rose, if you stayed long enough to fill out the Slave Card that all stock are given, but if you did, you might remember that on that card are two distinct items that you are asked to fill out. One refers to limits (those things you will NOT do or have no desire to do or participate in) and the other refers to kinks (those things you really enjoy or are excited about experiencing). In my experience having not only filled out that card, but having seen the cards of many slaves that have been sold, the majority of their limits and their kinks have little to do with sex, virtual or otherwise. Yes this is still from the persepctive of the slave/sub, but in both my experiences, the Dom referred to and respected both my limits and my kinks.

My kinks had more to do with control and being dominated in my thoughts and actions rather than specific sexual acts or positions i enjoy, and both Dom's in my experience have made an effort to accommodate those things i enjoy. My limits also had more to do with not wanting to be humiliated or to be ignored or be isolated for a prolonged period. They also respected those items, and did (and do) their best to ensure that i am getting what i need and want from the experience.

Are there those who think that BDSM or the auction experience are strictly about sex, and kinky sex at that? I am sure there are, because people are different, but the auction in question stresses to the buyers that they read the slave's card so that they can know what the limits and kinks are to see if they are compatible. Might the tastes and appetites of those in the lifestyle be different than those on the outside who pursue more 'vanilla' relationships...of course. But for a relationship in either world to be good, both parties have to respect the needs and desires of the other partner. And that is why i feel my experience has been a good one because in both situations in which i have found myself, the Doms worked very hard to make sure they were living up to my expectations as well as the efforts i put into them to give them what they expected...resulting in satisfying and fun experiences for both parties (i hope!).

And as another poster commented earlier, there are probably more in your rl who dabble in the lifestyle than you realize. Even in the New York Times, and on the sides of buses, bondage is used to sell things such as ties and watches. Read or watch Jean Kilbournes documentary on Killing Us Softly. BDSM is much more mainstream than many realize.

This has been observed by others. For some it can be a kind of erotic parenting, but when done "well" (in my personal opinion), it's done on a basis of mutual respect rather than depenency. And it's rarely as far as "letting someone make all of your decisions" -- mostly this is about kinky sex play, and enhancing that through D/s or BDSM play.

The way I view D/s is not through the lens of hierarchy, but through the lens of symbiosis. It's like a "yin/yang" situation in my eyes: each very different, each dependent on the other for wholeness. A dominant is properly as dependent on a submissive, in my view, as vice-versa -- it's a situation of mutual trust, mutual respect and mutual interdependence. When viewed and practiced and experienced this way, it's far from being abusive and can be quite life enhancing.



Not everyone is an abuser. What I tell people who are getting involved in the SL D/s or BDSM scene is to be exceedingly careful, because there are many bad dominants in SL. Some are abusers and some are simply inattentive, which is also a bad thing. Taking care and being careful and selective are always a good idea, whether in SL or RL, BDSM or otherwise.



Well, because the person looking to be bought wants kinky sex with a dominant as well. It's a shared desire (at least that's how it should be and in all the "slave auctions" I have seen in SL, the slaves certainly wanted to be bought and have kinky sex).

It's been said before: BDSM isn't abuse. Abuse is abuse. What consenting adults do may appear abusive to the outsider, but if there's consent and enjoyment, and it's safe, sane and consensual, it's not abuse. You can even drop some of those provisos and it's still not abuse, as long as you keep consent.

I couldn't agree more.

No, I did not fill out the Slave Card. I don't believe I was asked to fill it out. Possibly because it was obvious that I was clueless as to what the whole thing was about?


Humiliation is not necessarily a part of a subs existence? This is news to me. I had thought humiliation was a major part of being a sub. I am learning new things again. Thank you.

How does this fit with the nude pole dancing thing? Or with being told that slaves will be hanging around the teleport spot skyclad to greet visitors? Isn't nude pole dancing in front of all and sundry who wander into the sim intended to be humiliating? Is it just me, or does this also seem to be advertising that the Slave Market is about kinky sex?

Boy, Datsa Spicy Meatball ...

No it shouldn't be, any more than rape should be part of a loving relationship*. The question about how to keep abusers out applies to how to stop rapists (of either agenda).

You need to be objective and let go Rose.

*Yes I know, consensual nonconsent ... let's not go there, it's PG I'm at work and I'd warm to my theme too much

Well, just like everywhere else in SL, there are people who just want to get laid.

Rose, I think you have a good grasp on what it is and, more importantly, why it is not for you. I'm pretty vanilla for the most part but enjoy some thinks others call kinky. I am one side of the fringe BDSM community. From my experience, the "sex-me" (edited for PG) group makes up a large percentage but couples like Love and Lexxi make up the core. On the other side of the fringe are the abusive users and those who want to be totally destroyed by them. It's a pretty wide group and it is impossible to point at one segment and think that is common.

Honorifices are common. Master and saying You. Terms like "this one" instread of "i" are used but no where near universally. I find it a little too formal for my tastes. Calling free people Miss, Sir, Ma'am what evern are part of the honerifics. Common but not universally manditory because these apply to a Dom/sub relationship.

In SL, the collar is common. I do know one couple that use rings instead so as not to be apparent when out in the world. Again, common, but not universal.

Other than that ... there is not much that is common across the board. It's more like if they are wearing silks you know they are probably a slave, but you can't assume all slaves wear silks.

Hell no. Humiliation is but one of many flavours. Variation has been a constant theme in the responses to you. What other absolutes (misconceptions) do you harbour? Worth some self reflection.



I suspect the pole dancing is more about the auctioneer enjoying it. The greeters, profile and profile picks, is all clearly to help the business and game the system. And sex sells... cars, beer, slaves, cigarettes, milk, ... etc etc. Don't try to read *that* much into it.

Why is it the US daytime crowd can have a discusion but the US evening crowd have arguments?

Yeah but she said discipline. And that's HAWT ...

The presence of English freaks too? *G*

I've often found the Forum changes nature at a certain time of day, after which I usually don't look.

I was about to say this, but I'm saved a ton of typing because Rose said it herself.

Rose, I am largely in your corner on this one. The D/s lifestyle is strange and nearly incomprehensible to me. A few months back, I made a post a little bit like yours, regarding my feelings of uneasiness when I discovered that my otherwise friendly and helpful next door neighbor kept his partner in a cage in their house...and that she spent many hours a day there willingly, with her avatar logged on.

And yet...I feel a strange sort of attraction/repulsion about the whole thing. There is a part of me that wonders what it would be like to really submit to someone, to give up choice and freedom for security. Another and much larger part of me insists that I stand up and think and act for myself, accepting the consequences for my own actions and decisions. I suspect that a similar sort of curiosity or dichotomy is what led you to the slave market, and was the reason for your original post.

I've had some very interesting conversations with knowledgeable dom(mes) and subs. Those I've met mostly are highly intelligent and articulate. I am proud to number quite a few among my friends. I don't understand much of what they do. Because I realize that I don't understand, and don't share their lifestyle, I tend to tread a little carefully around them, for fear of offending them. You've seen in this thread that that is easy to do...people (any people, not just BDSM people) are very touchy when you say something that sounds to them as if you are mocking them or putting them down.

SL is a place to explore...not only the 28,000 sims, but people. And not only other people, but yourself. Here is a place where you CAN be a slave-for-a-day. Or a streetwalker, or a fashion model, or a business mogul or a warrior queen or a fire-breathing dragon.

It's your choice. Whatever you choose to explore, throw in a little self analysis. "How do I feel about this...and why do I feel that way?" Answers like "because it's just WRONG" are usually self-deception, and a clue that it's time to dig deeper for understanding. As for me, I'm still working on it.

Wow! Thank you so much for all the good information, Yosef!

No, humiliation normally wouldn't be nude pole dancing -- especially in the context of SL, where nude pole dancing is very common (and now even in RL pole dancing classes are all the rage). At least it wouldn't be classical "humiliation" in most contexts. That's more like "servitude" ... as in putting on a show for everyone, serving their eyes with your body. Humiliation can take many forms, but is often verbal degredation of the submissive, often in public, perhaps combined with some physical degredation as well (e.g., being under one's boot in public or something like that).

And there's my weak area. The Discipline in BDSM... I know not what that really means.

Rose, while I'm loath to send anyone over to sluniverse, Beathag runs a great group there dedicated to BDSM for the non RL-practitioner. At least that's how it started. There are some good people whom would, I'm sure, be happy to help answer some of your questions.

Then perhaps the pole-dancing was optional and I hadn't been there long enough to know this? Wouldn't I have been zapped for refusing "Master Bull" if I had refused to pole-dance? Or perhaps it was assumed that I wanted to pole-dance in the absence of a Slave Information card?

/me shrugs

No, I doubt it was optional.

Oh no no no. Not at all, tho there are some who crave it. Being told to strip and dance on the pole was more like being given a chance to show off. Exhibitionism, not humiliation.

Oh, BTW: I can't really tell you what BDSM is, just my experiences with my little slice of the whole. I know a bit, Victoria knows her area, Love knows hers and even Bull can tell you what he believes but it's all just bits of the whole. I may be an arogant jerk but I know enough to say I know very little.

Then you suck as an arrogant jerk!

BDSM and abuse are two completely different things; unless you separate those in your own mind it's never going to make a whole lot of sense.

Would you consider kissing to be abusive?

"Kissing someone" carries a positive connotation (or at least it does for me): a certain closeness and intimacy that is shared by the two people kissing. On the other hand anyone random stepping up to you, grabbing you and kissing you wouldn't be positive in any way, it lacks any connection that would give any kind of meaning to the act. Calling it "abuse" might be bit farfetched, but it gets the idea across.

Simlarly BDSM isn't inherently negative or abusive, it's the context that determines whether something is being abusive or not, not any kind of specific act. Just like you'll have abusive "vanilla" relationships, you'll have abusive BDSM relationships. The difference is in how the relationship is expressed, there's no underlying fundamental difference between a vanilla and BDSM relationship, each is unique and only needs to have meaning for the people involved.

Translating your experience into more everyday things: maybe he is the kind of guy who'll just grab a feel on a date without any regard to you; or he did something that is inherently innocent but that you weren't ready for yet or comfortable with for whatever reason (the key here is understanding that unlike the previous example there is no ill intent here, your reaction might be the same in both cases and that's fine but there's no malice involved here, it's simply a lack of trust/closeness, or you simply don't "match".

Or you're just not "into" it and that's something only you can make out for yourself. If you can't find anything that would appeal to you under the most ideal circumstances then it's just not your cup of tea and you'll never find out no matter how you try, just like I'll never understand why people think dogs - which are smelly and dumb - make good pets when you could have a kitty instead .

It's enough to know that someone sees value and merit in it and simply leave it at that .

Hmm as usual. People all have an opinion about Gor and love to share hence this long post but most don't know anything about it. There's a plethora of information out there on Gor, form numerous notecards in game, online websites etc.

And ya know, if it's not for you, so be it. I was wearing silks, my friend wanted me to visit, but asked if I would change first cuz her friend has a thing against Gor. Well her friend has a child avi, which totally creeps me out....but to each his own I guess.

And to tell you the truth, I have found more honest, honourable people in Gor than I have in regular SL It's not all furring (sex) and slave games people. RP Goreans have a deep sense of pride and honour in their homestone (the city they live in), the work they do for that homestone, and the families they create.

Yes slaves are owned and do what the Free (non-slaves) tell them but most Free have jobs and responsibilites and many work very hard at them (much harder than then slaves at times) in helping to create a better RP environment for all.

And no one is there because they don't want to be. Get a clue before you get an opinion I would say.

You see, this is where communication becomes all-important - what one person finds humiliating, another might consider to be a reward or a tremendous honour. To take the pole-dancing as an example, it could be service, it could be humiliating, or it could be considered an honour that one's master or mistress thought the sub's body was beautiful enough to show off. It all depends on the individuals involved. Personally, all it would do for me would be to question the master/mistresses sense of taste as I find pole-dancing really really cheesy.

A good Dominant will take the time to learn effective ways of rewarding and punishing their sub, by learning the sub's attitudes to various activities, just as a good sub will take the time to learn what the dominant enjoys.