An Observation and a Suggestion for the Mods

Two things my journalism professor taught me, Coco; and being a writer yourself, I'm sure you remember them.

First is "who, what, where, when, why and how."

Second is... "Know your subject, don't try to fool anyone lest you yourself become the fool."

Take a look in the forum archives, learn the subject to which you are referring; research it, study it, then we can have a truly honest discussion filled not only with historical facts, but with a little more detail than the present. You know the keyword search that's needed for your subject.

P.S. I dreamed last night I went and threw all TEN of my votes over to some proposition. The problem is, I don't remember what that proposition was!

P.S. Lynn - I will precisely NOT do that. If one did that, a person would never, ever have a chance. I look at the forums once I arrive there - and see what person A has said. If persons B, C, and D don't respond in kind, and logically - then the problem is not with whatever person A may have said in the past, but with what B, C, and D are doing now. And often, that is, in aggregate, worse than whatever person A may have said or done in the past.

There's another practical reason. Let's say that person A did make a horrible mistake in the past, just for argument's sake. Did say something awful, or whatever. Or was a pain, or something - mind you, this is totally theoretical, and not at all what I think probably did happen in the past regarding any individual.

But let's say they did. Then person A makes a thread or a post that is totally reasonable, as is their right, as a player of the game. Is it fair then, to look back over past history to have an excuse for piling on when piling on isn't deserved?

I often don't look at exactly who says what in which post, insofar as is humanly possible, for the same reason. Even if I do know everything an individual has said to me in the past, though - there is always the now and the future, and our relationship could change and could become a good one. For all practical purposes, there are a few people I WILL avoid, not being a total masochist. But I can't say I have ever closed the door completely on anyone.

So history - it doesn't matter. Now is what matters. How we treat people now is what matters.

I said I had about done my say on this issue, and I have, but I wanted to answer this.

coco

If its a poem, then its probably just some random bit of junk that vaguely goes along with the topic.. in the past I've rewritten pop songs, nursery rhymes, and Poe's "The Raven" into more SL centric formats... usually to get a giggle.

Vroomfondle is a character from Douglas Adams Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.. a philosopher (though he may not be! as he emphatically states) who objects to a giant comptuer revealing the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything.....

***** SPOILER ******

It's 42.

Yes! And can get no where else, apparently.

It's been a number of years for me as well, but I do remember getting the image of a 'group' of talking Oprah-esque heads, interacting and calling for action over this cause or another, always whipped into a fury over something, and after much discussion and demands that "SOMETHING!" must be done to address the current outrage, they would all congratulate themselves for finding the solution. Though it was never quite clear to Montag what the fuss was about or what had been accomplished.

Loved that book. Perfect for instilling in a pre-teen the love of free speech and free press.

Thanks, Siggy! A book I should have already read long ago.

coco

P.S. I think this was it, Siggy:

"Help him! Help him!"
"Help who?"
"Help the moderator"
"I'm the moderator. I'm all right."
"Then help HIM! Help HIM!"

P.S. But I always knew the answer was 42 anyway.

Ah no, another literary reference, this time to Catch 22.

Like a bunch of stuff I post - someone will get it and have a giggle.. if not, it usually appears as some random comment.

Further explanation:

In Catch 22 there a character called Major Major, whose middle name is Major and was advanced to the army rank of Major...

In a topic called Forum Forum, and the question of whether a Forum about Forums would need a Forum about Fourm Forums, you start to see not only a relationship to the character, but to a Catch 22 itself.

Like I said - you either get it or you don't.

It is a bit presumptuous to speak for most of the world, eh? It is very different to say something about a general group where it is not clear what individuals you are talking about ("the FIC is evil!" versus speaking about a very specific small group of people who took part in doing something ("the Cabinhead creators are evil". In this case, it was specifically about the members of Bedazzle that had appeared naked. By equating those who did this with prostitutes, individuals were being maligned. That is what I had a problem with, and why I find it such a double standard on personal attacks.

Aye, that's very true! Infinitely readable with plenty of layers of symbolism and such so that you can enjoy it all the more on a second reading a few years later!

Neither do I but it sounds a bit erotic.

My name... is...... Slartibartfast....

Ya had to ruin it.

That DID sound familiar, Siggy. I have read Catch-22 - but long ago - and also saw (I believe) the movie.

Cristiano, I understand your distinction, and believe that is why the Lindens instituted that rather ill-defined and not well-thought-out rule about groups. Ill-defined though it was, it does cover those situations where the degrees of separation (as defined mainly by the number of individuals in the group, whether organized or hypothesized) make things a bit more personal, or will be received as more personal, and I think that is probably a good idea.

Anyway, I got back on to verify my land purchase and post in another thread! whee!

coco

I have said for the past 2+ years that you need to get off my back, and your friends would be smart to do the same. Right now you look like a guy who can't let ANYTHING go EVER.
You proved it in this forum, I said I would not post again and it turned into the "Catherine Cotton did this a year and a half ago or (when ever) thread AGAIN.

You dont see that as mob mentality!

I'm pissed at a lot of posters over things they have said to me. I unlike you and your pals, don't bring it up every chance I get. That would be HARRASSMENT and its against the forum rules.

LL can look the other way all they want but when push comes to shove I no longer have to hear you, nor do I have to leave to avoid you.

If your gonna tell it tell it right I did not call the bedazzle team "whores" you did.

/120/7d/41354/14.html#post445269

You and any of your buddies who continues this OPEN HARRASMENT are on perm ignore because to be honest your not worth my time. Find a new victim pal.




Cat

Catherine,

I quoted you directly above from the same thread. I did not say you called them whores anywhere in this thread. I said you agreed with Blaze that they were prostituting themselves and you said these women were beneath you. It's all there in black and white in the thread from April 2005 - hardly a year and a half ago. It is one example of many I could pull up, since you seem willing to dredge up the past whenever it suits you.

Over the past few weeks you have continually raised how long you have been mistreated, brought up being called a whore and other things multiple times, and said how horrible people were to you. I am asking why it is alright for you to treat people however you please, but everyone against you is so horrible. Asking that is not harassment - it is a straightforward question that you cannot answer. If you want the attacks to stop, it goes both ways, and you won't ever own up to your own, thus this cycle repeats again and again.

blahh blahh blahhh im sure everyone in the fourms is realy sick and tired of reading the same crap rehashed till their eyes bleed I know I am

So how about them Mets?

Even when I have disagreed with you, I have never responded to your posts with blah blah blah or something as low as "fuck your opinions". In fact, you are the only person I have ever seen in these forums tell anyone that their opinions didn't matter. Give that one some thought, Catherine.

I agree Coco, and fully support this effort.

Cat

Thank you, Catherine.

Every one of us is a paying member of this community (or at least paid once, in the case of basic members), and every one of us has a right to speak in these forums with dignity.

None of us deserves to be publicly snickered at, satirized personally, marginalized, wrongly personally characterized, told to leave, or belittled in any fashion. This also means, I believe, that people should not be allowed to cause threads to be closed down by posting monkey pictures or recipes (much as I enjoy the latter).

The closing down of threads in such a fashion disenfranchises paying members of this community. ALL members of this community are equal, regardless of age, sex, ethnic origin, nationality, or viewpoint on any issue. And all have a right to speak on these forums without personal attacks from others.

None of us is a "bad apple" or ever was. What hurts one of us hurts us all.

coco

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." -- George Santayana

"History is a guide to navigation in perilous times. History is who we are and why we are the way we are." -- David C. McCullough

I think Lynn offers good advice in her post earlier, Coco. One of the main unwritten rules of forum usage I've learned over the years is to learn a bit about the posters and the atmosphere of the forum before you just start posting things. With SL, that time is not so long of course, because of the nature of this new "world". But the things you can learn about others, why they are the way they are, how they got where they are now, etc. can go a long way in helping you understand why they may respond to various issues the way that they do.

I __have__ seen the threads, I do _read_ the forums. I apologize that I don't assume every slight comment is an insult or a dig against someone else. I don't post that much so I believe I can sometimes pull back and see stuff from a different view point.

Do I think that people have gotten too harsh on Catherine at times? Yes. Do I believe that at times she's dished it out as good as she's gotten? Yes. Do I believe Prok got lambasted cruelly? Yes. Do I believe that Prok also insulted people? Yes. I _saw_ all of these things Coco. I haven't seen Catherine and Prok behaving in a perfect manner and being angelic and never ever saying anything that might offend someone else.

So please do not insinuate that I haven't seen what you have seen. I have seen it, maybe just from a different perspective. From what I can see from your posts, your words would say that you love to hear about different perspectives, so I gave it.

The _hypocrisy_ was that I have _seen_ you (and no I'm tired and I'm at work, no time to go dig through old threads to show one as an example), cry "MOB! MOB!", when neither Prok or Catherine were subjects, or even yourself in a thread. If it's someone that did lambast Prok (and yes, some of them were quite cruel), then you're going to jump in screaming "MOB! MOB!". Even if they're talking about something quite unrelated. Now, Coco, I know your goal is forum reform. But wouldn't it be better not only to tell us, but to sometimes just have a normal post and show us? Show us what type of forum you are talking about? I just went off topic for a moment *steers herself back wishing desparately that she had drank coffee before reading forums* The hypocrisy was your statement "That thread was useful, a bunch of like minded people and myself got to talk". Well what makes that different than a thread where Cristiano, Aimee, Eggy etc. (sorry guys, just pulling names out of my head, not lumping you together or anything) are expressing likeminded opinions THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EITHER PROK OR CATHERINE. Why are they mobs? Why are they mobs and you're "a bunch of likeminded people and myself". I mean, yeah, maybe some of them got nasty to Prok, maybe some are nasty to Catherine (AGAIN, PLEASE IGNORE EXAMPLES OF CRIS, AIMEE AND EGGY, PULLING NAMES OUTTA MY HEAD), but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to talk about stuff TOTALLY unrelated and not have screams of mob following them. That is where the inherent hypocrisy lies.

Sorry that it's so long. Blame the lack of coffee, I ramble when I'm tired.

So how's the victim's therapy coming here?

~Ulrika~

I get to be Deep Thought!

Reading Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy should be made mandatory before ANYONE is allowed to post to these forums. Get with the program - the secret is to BANG THE ROCKS TOGETHER GUYS!

Flipper, I thought Snowcrash was the mandatory reading here. You mean I have to read two books?


Katja, I do post normal posts. All the time. And when I first got here, my posts were all "normal" and quite mild. All I had to do was say I liked Prok and he should stay around, and that turned me into an alt for a month. And that's just the first of it. I don't need, really, to go into all the history of it yet again. Having had the anti-Prok mob turn on me, so unthinkingly, so irrationally - that alone says mob behavior.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one - all of us. No amount of talking is going to change my mind, or make me decide all of a sudden I can't tell the difference between normal behavior and what has gone on here. You might as well expect me to decide the tree trunk outside my window isn't brown.

But yes, I know I tend to overreact to some of it, and occasionally to nonexistant some of it. I wish - I truly wish - that all of you could spend even just a week or so being someone on the receiving end of all this. Then you might understand why we might be overly sensitive to it. Why we might overreact. Why we might finally snap and say something regrettable. You don't know what it is like to have twenty people all over you at once, instantly, several of them viciously or cruelly, for months on end, even years, and apparently never will. I don't need you to understand, though. I need you to care.

coco

See Coco, I've learned from history and from personal experiences that a leopard *does* change spots -- but it's still dangerous.

All I simply asked you to do is your homework. So that you will know and try to understand why some individual's reactions are what they are. If you so choose not to do so, then continue to wear those rose-colored glasses. Guaranteed though, one day you will be blinded by the heated and angered light. But, in a lot of eyes, it's rather humourous to find you supporting something that you know absolutely nothing about and don't care to educate yourself about for various personal reasons.

So be it.

Second Life has a history whether you choose to learn about it or not. Your personal history in SL can begin the day you came from TSO. But realize that things, situations, discussions, arguments, insults, etc., happened a long time before you joined. These will continue. After all, it's the metauniverse. Have at your "opinion" but realize that an uneducated one has no validity.