Now I'm done with you for good.
~Ulrika~
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An Observation and a Suggestion for the Mods |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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07-05-2005 17:20
~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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07-05-2005 17:32
this thread isn't out of control. it's just based on a lot of unfounded assumptions.
historically, LL does not close threads because people disagree. they close threads because of personal attacks or the thread going off topic. the thread in question had people posting about their favorite restaurant and images of monkeys. if i was a moderator i'd be offended by the initial post. jauani p.s. coco - why does every thread end up with you beating the same drum? p.s. i thought this thread was about moderation policy, not catherine cotton _____________________
http://wu-had.blogspot.com/
read my blog Mecha Jauani Wu hero of justice __________________________________________________ "Oh Jauani, you're terrible." - khamon fate |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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07-05-2005 18:09
p.s. coco - why does every thread end up with you beating the same drum?  ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-05-2005 18:27
If that's so, Juani, then a person can get a thread closed just by posting pics and talking about their favorite restaurants. (And I enjoyed Enebran talking about cooking, lol; I always do.)
If this is so, then this isn't fair to either the original poster or those who wish to discuss the topic. And yes, Jauni, it is about why threads get closed. The suggestion that this one should automatically get closed I also found alarming. Basic behavior modification, Ulrika? Do you mean you are trying to modify my behavior? So that I don't post on things that you don't like? Difficulty reaching a common understanding? Is the whole problem then that some people are not particularly amenable to being modified? Sounds to me like, "Go along with the crowd, or get lost." If this is a matter of people posting off-topic with pictures and stories about roast beef and things, then that isn't good. That means anybody can come in and close down a discussion just by being naughty. coco P.S. And I don't THINK of it as being naughty, by the way. I usually think of it - as in the case of the roast beef stories - as just people well-intentionedly trying to difuse the tension. I could be wrong, but that's the way it struck me. |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-05-2005 18:30
And yes, Enebran, it is about why threads get closed. The suggestion that this one should automatically get closed I also found alarming. Huh? What's this in response to? _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-05-2005 18:35
In response to:
"That thread was in desperate need of locking just like this one will soon be." Ulrika said that, above. coco |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-05-2005 18:37
In response to: "That thread was in desperate need of locking just like this one will soon be." Ulrika said that, above. coco Then, er, why wasn't it addressed to Ulrika? Why is everyone addressing me instead of the people who say things lately.  _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-05-2005 18:41
Didn't mean to be addressing you.
coco woopsie woopsie i see it now. I was actually answering Jauni - I will correct that now. But I also wasn't meaning Jauni said that either. |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-05-2005 18:46
Didn't mean to be addressing you. coco woopsie woopsie i see it now. I was actually answering Jauni - I will correct that now. But I also wasn't meaning Jauni said that either.  _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-05-2005 18:54
Read up, Enabran. I answered Jauni's question as if you had asked it.
I fixed that now. coco |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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07-05-2005 18:56
Katja, the only thing I have in common with Catherine that I know of for sure (as I said before, I don'tknow Catherine) is we both think people should have a right to speak with dignity. To not be called personal names. To not have everyone leap all over you the minute you open your mouth here. I'm not talking about groups. I'm talking about calling individuals personal, individual names. When I came into these forums in February, I saw this person named Catherine jumped on all over the place, I believe it was for having a position about some kind of sexy display for Bedazzle - in a way that was totally clearly, to an impartial observer who knew no one on the forums, way out of proportion to what she was ACTUALLY SAYING. I SAW that. I didn't invent that. I didn't come into this game with any reason to want to stand up for Catherine. I saw it then; I see it now. It isn't hypocritical for me to be for people to be allowed to speak with dignity on these forums. It has been Prok - but as you know, he is my friend. It was Catherine - obvious to me from the minute I arrived here; and it has been this or that newcomer to the threads, and, of course, myself. I'm against this. Totally. I have come up with two reforms I think would largely fix most of this. Now, you may not see any of this what I have seen, Katja, but I see it every day of my life on these forums. To speak against it, therefore, seems not the least hypocritical to me. I am not anxious to keep my right to call others personal names. I'm not perfect. But the fact that some people make almost a sport of it, well, that needs to go. So does the banning rule. And I still would like to know what was wrong with that thread that got closed. And what's wrong with this thread? How is it that this thread calls for a lock, too? coco I had to respond to this. She was speaking about individuals. Bedazzle is made up of a finite group of people, and those who posed nude were not even part of the group. She was speaking about how they had lowered themselves, and how degrading it was. She agreed that it was prostitution, and that these women were beneath her. Yet, again, here you are, saying what she did was fine, and it was everybody else that was just so mean. Well you know what? She was speaking of my girlfriend and friends of mine, and alluding that they were prostituting themselves and somehow beneath her. How can you continue to justify that Cocoanut? _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.  |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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07-05-2005 18:58
Then, er, why wasn't it addressed to Ulrika? Why is everyone addressing me instead of the people who say things lately. I think it's because you are the mob spokesperson (Mob Media Liason).  _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-05-2005 19:01
I vaguely remember all that Cristiano, and I understand that you are upset about the involvement of your girlfriend in it, and I don't blame you.
But I do think there is a vast difference between criticizing what a group does and criticizing individuals. Most of the world and law would also agree with my take on it. Every group is, of course, composed of individuals. That doesn't make criticism of the group equivalent to criticism of each individual member of that group. But we can argue that till the cows come home. Meanwhile, I want to see fewer personal (individual) attacks allowed on these forums. And I would like to see threads that are going along well not get closed for obscure reasons. Is it this thing about pictures, etc.? If so, that would mean I can take my choice of threads I don't like, and go in there right now and give my recipes or post some pictures of monkeys, and that thread will be O-V-E-R. That isn't right, and wouldn't be fair to the people discussing things there. coco |
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Ardith Mifflin
Mecha Fiend
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,416
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07-05-2005 19:08
But I do think there is a vast difference between criticizing what a group does and criticizing individuals. Most of the world and law would also agree with my take on it. Every group is, of course, composed of individuals. That doesn't make criticism of the group equivalent to criticism of each individual member of that group. Fair enough. I'm sick and tired of the Ken & Barbie TSO crowd which has come into this world and which thinks that a free lunch should be the status quo. I'm tired of flighty and panicky individuals who run around screaming about the falling sky, or who view every thread as a concerted attack against their person. I'm tired of all those people who have a negative experience and then repeatedly bring up that negative experience at every opportunity, whether it's appropriate or not. Hmmm... these group criticisms seem just as wrong as individual ones. But, I guess they're fine aren't they? |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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07-05-2005 19:10
But I do think there is a vast difference between criticizing what a group does and criticizing individuals. Most of the world and law would also agree with my take on it. Every group is, of course, composed of individuals. That doesn't make criticism of the group equivalent to criticism of each individual member of that group. Well thats your take on it, and your entitled do it, as is most of the world. That being said, however, the only thing that really matters is who LL agrees with (it being their company, world, and forum.. So it comes down to how you interpret this : Private discussions – the forums are a public area for the Second Life community’s use. Individuals who have a dispute with each other have other channels of communication to discuss their differences or communicate – private messaging, IM within Second Life, or chatting within Second Life. Also, threads that are addressed to a single individual or group are inappropriate on the forums, this includes slander or "naming names" in a posts title, starting polls about a particular resident or group, etc. and of course whether or not that falls alongside with LL's interpretation of those words. _____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-05-2005 19:13
They are, in fact, better than the individual ones, Ardith. Wherever an individual is repeatedly called personal things, such that anyone coming on the threads quickly gets the impression that that individual is a problem individual - wherever an individual can't thoughtfully present his/her opinions without people piling on mercilessly - wherever people can't speak their minds with dignity - wherever others are allowed to say anything disparaging and personal they wish about an individual, and DO, in droves - you have a bad environment.
coco P.S. Yes, Siggy, I know the Lindens decided that, and I think they were wrong to decide it, but I understand why they did, and it's somewhat of a minor matter to me compared to these other things. That's why I don't really want to argue about that. I want to state that I think the closing of threads without clear reason is a bad thing. If it is a matter of monkey pictures, then the appropriate thing to do would be to sanction those who post the monkey pictures. |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-05-2005 19:18
I think it's because you are the mob spokesperson (Mob Media Liason). If that's the case, I'm doing a terrible job. Mob PR is in the toilet. I need to promote the image of a softer, more caring mob.  _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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07-05-2005 19:20
And I want to state that I may, or may not be... Vroomfondle.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-05-2005 19:23
LOL, Enebran. Well, I think I've had my say on this issue. I will finish by saying that if others derail a person's thread, then the others are the ones who should have to deal with it - make them stop.
But let the people who are enjoying the threads continue on. Well, "enjoying" may not be the right term. Let the people benefitting from the conversation continue on, until if and when the whole thread gets completely out of hand. If that happens, the person originally posting, or any other people still interested, could then just start the discussion again. coco P.S. Now that I see Siggy's post above, in addition to his cryptic one earlier in another thread, are these posts examples of how to derail a thread and get it locked? |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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07-05-2005 19:31
P.S. Now that I see Siggy's post above, in addition to his cryptic one earlier I didn't understand, are these posts examples of how to derail a thread and get it locked? I didn't think the first one (basically R.T.F.M. -- only in a nice way) was cryptic at all.. Unless your talking about another post, in which case a quote or link may be helpful. As for the one above.. its just a stupid comment... It's what I do on the forums. See - I'm at work till midnight - bored out of my frigging skull.. and it occurs to me that out there in forum land is another soul... probably bored outta thier skull.. And so, when the mood strikes me, I post a silly comment - in the hopes that someone out there will lighten up and get a laugh.. and perhaps their day will be a just a tiny bit better for it. Seeing how many of my off the cuff ramblings have become sig lines and quotes.. I think I may be right in assuming that a little levity now and then is a good thing. Now you're free to disagree with that - BUT as I said in my other post, the judge of what is appropriate or not is up to Linden Lab, and more specifically the forum moderators... Although I have received a warning or two for some rather colorful things I've said on the forums, I have yet to receive one for my silly comments. Siggy. P.S. it wasn't derailing either - you said you were STATING something, and so stated that I may (or may not be) Vroomfondle.... which I'm pretty sure a LOT of people here could tell you what book that comes from. _____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
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Simone Stern
I am John Galt
Join date: 3 Dec 2004
Posts: 295
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07-05-2005 19:31
Enabran.... have you ever read Bradbury's book "Farenheit 451"? (Sorry for the misspelling... I'm only a mere fashionista wannabe!
) Remember the talking walls, the endless discussions on those walls, and Bradbury's descriptions of the outgrage, the righteous indignation, the demand that "SOMETHING!" must be done? *sits back over in a corner with her bright shiny new box of crayons and waits for the Pan de Agua recepie* |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-05-2005 19:32
P.S. Now that I see Siggy's post above, in addition to his cryptic one earlier in another thread, are these posts examples of how to derail a thread and get it locked? Siggy is making a literary reference. I would posit that making a quiet literary reference has never gotten a thread locked. Open hostility and oblique insults get a thread locked. Also, if Siggy gets to be Vroomfondle, may I be Majikthise? _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-05-2005 19:33
Thank you for explaining, Siggy. The other post was . . . some sort of poem or something. I figured it was just a reference I didn't understand.
There is life on the forums, but some of this life needs to get into the game - namely me. coco P.S. I also don't know what "R.T.F.M." means. P.S. I don't know who "broomfondle" is either. |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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07-05-2005 19:33
Siggy is making a literary reference. I would posit that making a quiet literary reference has never gotten a thread locked. Open hostility and oblique insults get a thread locked. Also, if Siggy gets to be Vroomfondle, may I be Majikthise? Though you may not be! haha you put in the explanation before I could  _____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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07-05-2005 19:36
Enabran.... have you ever read Bradbury's book "Farenheit 451"? (Sorry for the misspelling... I'm only a mere fashionista wannabe! ) Remember the talking walls, the endless discussions on those walls, and Bradbury's descriptions of the outgrage, the righteous indignation, the demand that "SOMETHING!" must be done? *sits back over in a corner with her bright shiny new box of crayons and waits for the Pan de Agua recepie* Bread of water? Is that the nice long fluffy bread you can score for fifty cents at those tiny Cuban bakeries all over Miami? I've always enjoyed classical SF, and I read (I think this is right) Fahrenheit 451 a few times as a kid. I vaguely remember the details about the full-room televisions, but you'll have to refresh me a bit on the indignation. _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |