An Observation and a Suggestion for the Mods

I have refrained from posting in this thread. I just want to add what I see.

I don't think we need any reforms. I think things are just peachy the way they are. This thread and all the other threads in which people have posted since that one thread was closed prove we don't need reform.

Sometimes a thread closing is just a way to make everyone take a deep breath and say "oh okay". It's not a bad thing.

I love the forums just they way they are. No one is brutally attacking anyone today. Everyone has a fair chance to voice their opiinions and avoiding the ones they don't particularly like.

Yeah Forums, yeah us! Everyone pat yourselves on the back.

Sorry if I'm being naive.

I'm glad you agree, Coco. I think there is a tendency here to spiral into overgeneralization of the "nobody ever lets me do anything" whiny toddler variety. This is not the first long discussion thread I've seen that remained open. Most do. Threads generally get locked when they degenerate into what I like to refer to as "Yo MamaVille" *tm. I have never seen some insidious Linden desire to turn us all into Gap wearing, minivan driving centrists who are not entitled to any sort of originality or dissent. I simply think that as boundaries have been pushed too far there has been a response and that we are in the process of finding a natural equilibrium. Simple as that, really.

I'm glad you agree, Coco. I think there is a tendency here to spiral into overgeneralization of the "nobody ever lets me do anything" whiny toddler variety. This is not the first long discussion thread I've seen that remained open. Most do. Threads generally get locked when they degenerate into what I like to refer to as "Yo MamaVille" *tm. I have never seen some insidious Linden desire to turn us all into Gap wearing, minivan driving centrists who are not entitled to any sort of originality or dissent. I simply think that as boundaries have been pushed too far there has been a response and that we are in the process of finding a natural equilibrium. I don't want to see the forums sterilized beyond recognition any more than I do SL itself. Simple as that, really.

What I hear you saying is it's ok to personaly attack anyone in these forums, during any kind of a discussion. I strongly disagree. How would you feel if I had started this post off by persoanly attacking you?

EDIT: But I wouldn't because I like you and I think you have a right to post your opinion. I disagree, but you have a right to post without anyone attacking you.

Cat

What I hear her saying is that she thinks things are just fine the way they are. I agree.

Again I disagree and I would never ever want to see anyone call you a "whore" or "mentally ill" over your opinion. I think you have a right to your opinion

Cat

I agree with April as well. I find her ability to look at the positives of a situation and move on from the negatives of it to be quite remarkable - and that she manages to do so without preaching from some imagined moral high ground is especially impressive.

The forum reforms I have in mind will hurt no one. They will not hurt April.

They would, though, help others a great deal.

coco

I think the big difference is that I wouldn't care, and certainly not enough to keep bringing it up. People are free to call me whatever they like, and I'm free to tell them exactly what I think of their opinions, and where they can stick them.

Apathy and a good sense of self-worth are wonderful things. I highly recommend them to anyone who gets worked up over anything that happens on the internet. Only when people you know (and I don't mean on the internet) and respect start calling you those things should it even concern you. These people don't know you, so why let it bother you?

Quite a few people seem to believe I'm really a man. Should I let that bother me? No. I take it as them being small minded, and me not fitting a stereotype. (I don't bling, giggle, hooch or run around in lingerie in world, and I speak my mind whenever I damn well please.)

If you know who and what you are, what anyone else says shouldn't bother you.

I agree, Jonquille, but smear campaigns do work, and it can ruin a person's game. Because of that, it shouldn't be allowed.

coco

I did not say you were lying. I did however, say you are talking out both sides of your mouth, and that these rules you are trying to ram down everyone's throat are hypocritical in light of your defense of your friend, who slung more verbal fecal matter than anyone I remember in my SL lifetime. Why Coco? If you can't, or are unwilling to address why you selectively employ different reasoning, I cannot take you seriously when you campaign for forum reform.

Exactly when did I say you were a tool for prok to get back on the boards? Although I am 100% sure nothing would make you happier if he were able to post again, I was simply pointing out the inconsistency in the standards to which you hold various people.

Leave the moderating to the mods please.

Use the forum tools to avoid people you don't like, or to report what you deem to be over the line.

Just because you are so opposed to reporting posts, doesn't mean that you get to redefine what a personal attack is.

You talk about badgering? People can't respond to certain people who you feel need Coco's mighty internet lawyer skills, without being badgered to death by a pack of Pollyannas. Leave people alone, and they will leave you alone. It doesn't get much simpler.

If Prok would have figured that out, he would still be here.

The only systematic smearing of anyone I have ever seen in these forums was at the hands of Prokofy. His attacks on the credibility of individuals, and of small groups (ie..Cabinhead) went to the heart of their motivations, their trustworthiness, and their characters. You are right, a smear campaign like that should never be allowed.

Calling someone an alt, or a name, no matter how harsh is not a smear campaign. Going after someone repeatedly, starting threads about them, speaking of them in world, sending out notecards, writing about them in blogs, and writing about them in comments on the SLH not only is a smear campaign, it is obsessive.

Maybe I'm giving people too much credit, (which is not one of my usual flaws by a long shot) but I believe most people recognize a smear campaign when they see it. I also believe most people are more than capable of making up their own minds about people based on their own conclusions.

If numerous people were coming to the same conclusions about me, the first thing I would do would be to look at my own personality (or posts, in this case) to try and figure out where those conclusions were coming from, rather than looking for outside sources and influences. If 20 people all claim I'm being whiney, then maybe I am, and maybe it's not some nefarious underground movement to try and paint me as such. Not that it would silence me or force me to pretend to be someone I'm not, but I would at least come into the next go-round with an understanding of my 'opponent's' point of view.

Ok Im going to go way way out on a limb here, and I will probably get flammed and attacked for this crazy idea that I have. In which case, I will run and cry into my pillow sobbing like a baby that people are mad at me, well cuz thats the way I am - a big cry baby.

Anyways, what if all of a sudden we were nice and civil and there were never ever any more fights in the forums? Im thinking we would miss it. Think about it. Where would our conversation pieces go? All the side bar, in game, out of game, this blog, that blog story and gossip? Think of all the times you said to your friend, "Hey did you hear about.. . . "

I mean it would be like taking the drama out of the soap operas, the Cruella DeVilles out of 101 Dalamtion, the suspense out of mystery novel of who done it and who is doing it next?

Im thinking we love this stuff! Do you log in to the forums everyday to check what happen next? Do you check a post you made and check to see if someone responded with a flame or a witty come back? Or did you go too far and it got locked.

OMG OMG I got a warning, OMG OMG that threat was locked! OMG did you see what so and so said?

I know I have been angered by some of the posts I have read and tryed to reply to the post with a witty or smart answer. I usually get knocked down - well cuz I suck at the forums. Just like I probably do with this lame brain idea.

but Im just wondering. . . as humans. . . rubber necking an accident on the side of a road to see if we can actually see the injured person . . . . dont we kind of want to look / read / flame / be cutsy ? at the unconscious idea / level that we may too cause an accident / hurt someones feeling / get in trouble?

I would miss it. I admit it! This morning in the IRC channel I said I loved the forums, because they were like a new fatal train wreck every single day! (or something like that.)

But it isn't the name-calling and ganging-up-on that I would miss, it's the passionate exchange of opinions. Take out the passion, and you take out the mac, just leaving the cheese. Where there's passion, there will be passionate objection. That's what makes it fun.

That is excellent advice, thank you for taking the time to give it to me

Cat

You're welcome, Cat. Like most advice, it's easier said than done, but I hope that the next time someone says something that offends or upsets you, you'll just think, "Eh, screw you."

Cat, I'm sorry I didn't explain it fully. I thought I had said very clearly since this thread was started. Hold on, let me open another window and check it to be sure.

"This thread and all the other threads in which people have posted since that one thread was closed prove we don't need reform."

I don't think recently anyone have used those words towards you.

I'm sorry I keep trying to move these forums forward. I think we can, if we really want to, move forward and not look backwards. I might be wrong but I thought even you said something to that effect.

Hugs.

Thank you Cristiano, your words were a nice pleasant surprise.

I post on the premise that I am writing to myself as the other person. I try hard not to say things I wouldn't want anyone want to say to me. It's a very simple concept. If I somehow got lost and got something turned around wrong, which I could easily do. I wouldn't want anyone saying anything mean to me under the guise of helping me find my way back.

its ok April your entitled to your opinion I understood it perfectly the first time. Lets just agree to disagree on this one ok

Hugz you too

Cat

Jonquil, I agree. And I agree with Tang. We all love a little spice. But we would have that no matter what - nothing is going to make people all of a sudden start loving each other. What we could do less with is seeing people outright destroyed, or the attempt made to do so.

Excuse me for responding piecemeal here.

coco

P.S. To everyone: My notion of "moving on" is different from yours, maybe. I don't want to move on when the forum has already taken a giant step backwards with a new rule. And I don't want to move on when the same things are STILL going on that led to that rule.

In my view, moving on - if it means continuing business as usual - is unacceptable. Moving on should be moving on for EVERYONE. Not moving on - without this person; then moving on - without that person; then moving on - without this other person.

Jonquille, I count on that.


Whiney. People do say that, and a lot worse. And there are some individuals determined to paint me in a certain way, and you can't convince me otherwise.

But - instead of looking at what people say I am, which they do quite a bit of, how about looking at what people say about my ideas?

1. Ganging up on happens. People say no it does not; people have brought on themselves their own just desserts and deserve to be treated that way. I disagree.

2. The new rule banning people from the game. People say that's just a fine and dandy rule, and it won't ever hurt anyone anyway, and it won't create an unnecessary climate of anxiety on the boards. I disagree.

3. Hideous personal attacks. People apparently think that's nothing to worry about; everything is just fine; grow up and get over it; there's no need for the mods to be any more strict about this; in fact, let the mods be the mods and don't question their rules. I disagree.

Now, do you think I'm going to worry if twenty people think I'm a whiner? I know I'm not a whiner. Besides, not everybody has to like me. What I am, who I am, and whether or not any particular individual likes me, is completely beside the point.

I want to see these forum reforms for the good of all. Disagree with that if you want. But I'm not going to all of a sudden undergo this huge epiphany, contrary to all my other experience both in the real world and online, that I have undergone some sort of horrible personality change.

No. What happened is I got on these forums and discovered them in a state of neglect, with bullying and name-calling rampant, and people feeling unwelcome to join in. It's still that way. It need not be that way, and I want that to change.

coco

1. I have addressed it many, many times before. In a nutshell, it's the ganging up and piling on thing. That is the difference.

2. You agreed with Cienna "100%" when she said it. With hugz and candy, even.

coco

Oh! How convenient!

Can you please explain to me why an individual should be allowed more leeway as far as personal attacks go?
Satire.


You are not going to change people. Understand this. You are talking to other adults here, not your children. You demanding that people change to accomodate your hypocritical position is absurd.

Your idea of "hideous personal attacks" is different than other people's, and just as subjective as anyone else's. Sometimes I get the feeling if someone looked at you cross-eyed, you would raise hell for weeks about it. Please beseech the Lindens and leave the rest of us alone.

Please stop marginalizing people's opinions by playing this "ganging up" card. It's highly insulting. I seem to remember you taking umbrage at being told you had a group think thing going on with Prokofy. You were quite adamant in declaring that you were independent. Please afford others the same which you asked for.

What is this stuff, "I am not moving on"? Does this mean you're going to bang this drum until they reinstate Prokofy? Are you threatening to fan flames if not? This improves the forums how? Is this, "if I am miserable, then I will drag the rest of you down too"?

I'm not interested in arguing with you anymore, Nolan.

coco