I belong to one of the above, by definition of Ms. Chung and according to her I am a non-stakeholder. I have no power to influence the big boys with my finances. BUT I do have the power to boycott the products of those who see themselves above me. They forget that I am the reason why they have power. I decided to take that power back. I will for an indefinite period boycott anything to do with Ms. Chung and her entourage of MJW group.
I call upon all citizens of SL who belong to any of the above groups in the title to join in on the boycott. Let's see who really decides what SL should be. Join in for a greater SL open society!
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Calling on mere tourists, users, consumers, players etc. to boycott MJW |
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Snowcrash Hoffman
Digital mind virus
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 282
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09-01-2005 16:47
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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09-01-2005 18:47
This was not what Anshe meant.
If you are interested in promoting fairness, justice, and equal opportunity in SL, consider joining the group, rather than boycotting it. At least look into it. Read the agenda. coco _____________________
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April Firefly
Idiosyncratic Poster
Join date: 3 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,253
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09-01-2005 18:56
This was not what Anshe meant. If you are interested in promoting fairness, justice, and equal opportunity in SL, consider joining the group, rather than boycotting it. At least look into it. Read the agenda. coco I was once told because I only had 8k of land, my opinions were not worth considering. This sounds like more of the same. If someone's input is valued by the amount of money or land they have, won't that make it harder for new people to be a vocal part of SL? Won't they see this group as having so much power and then decide they can't compete and leave the game? At least this is what the FIC was accused of doing. Plus a lot of their points either seem common sense, or rope to hang someone with in the future. I'm a minor player, I don't want to be treated any less than anyone else. Thank you for spewing sense into this thread. _____________________
the truth is overrated  The most successful software company in the world does a piss-poor job on all these points. Particularly the first three. Why do you expect Linden Labs to do any better?  |
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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09-01-2005 18:58
Sp the FIC and the content capitalists want me to boycott the MJW and the land capitalists?
Hmmmmmm. We pesky consumers and touritsts have bad habit of not doing what we are told. Why is the yoke of the FIC better than the Yoke of the MJW? The Jacobins have not yet come down from the mountain to turn SL over to the mob. _____________________
ALCHEMY -clothes for men.
Lebeda 208,209 |
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
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09-01-2005 18:59
I belong to one of the above, by definition of Ms. Chung and according to her I am a non-stakeholder. I have no power to influence the big boys with my finances. BUT I do have the power to boycott the products of those who see themselves above me. They forget that I am the reason why they have power. I decided to take that power back. I will for an indefinite period boycott anything to do with Ms. Chung and her entourage of MJW group. I call upon all citizens of SL who belong to any of the above groups in the title to join in on the boycott. Let's see who really decides what SL should be. Join in for a greater SL open society! The member list is currently 80 members and includes people known to be against the idea. Instead of listing the membership, I will instead list the officers and founder -- the folks responsible for this: Anshe Chung Prokovy Neva Cocoanut Koala Zeppi Schlegel Jauani Wu Shaun Altman _____________________
Just remember, they only care about you when you're buying sims.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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09-01-2005 19:10
I really have nothing against self interest. Anshe's agenda is pretty understandable, and her point that there's a difference between people with thousands of dollars invested and those who paid ten bucks is undeniable... there are people with more at stake than others. I don't think it's unreasonable for her to point that out or to ask if that qualifies her and others like her for more of a say in things and more assurances. I don't have the answer and I reckon LL wouldn't explicitly state it even if they agreed with her premise. Nothing wrong with her trying to get her concerns heard.
The only thing I have a problem with is the veneer of looking out for the common good when this is really all about self-interest. Anshe has her obvious agenda. It's lucid and understandable even if it makes you bristle... but it has nothing to do with the common SL'er. For Prok this is still all about trying to fight the FIC... to counter the alleged influence of this imaginary group (wicked evil bad content creators!) If those are the two prime movers in this exercise then pretending it's about (the obviously very subjective definition of) justice is pretty laughable. _____________________
 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Kim Manilow
total spaz
Join date: 8 Jun 2004
Posts: 154
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09-01-2005 19:13
Some people are only members in order to monitor the group. They don't necessarily agree with everything.
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Beau Perkins
Second Life Resident.
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,061
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09-01-2005 19:30
The member list is currently 80 members and includes people known to be against the idea. Instead of listing the membership, I will instead list the officers and founder -- the folks responsible for this: Anshe Chung Prokovy Neva Cocoanut Koala Zeppi Schlegel Jauani Wu Shaun Altman Cienna I want to clarify something. I am for the idea and do agree with some of the points made in the agenda. I do not agree with the tourist part and all that. But some of the points they made were valid. How many times has someone comlplained of getting banned but not been told why? Stuff like that was addressed. I just believe if such a group was to get an audience with Lindens, the leaders should be elected some how. I believe there is a major risk of conflict of interest when people self appoint themself to such a role to speak for what they think is best for SL. If that is not possible, then there should be a town hall like forum for such concerns. _____________________
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April Firefly
Idiosyncratic Poster
Join date: 3 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,253
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09-01-2005 19:34
Cienna I want to clarify something. I am for the idea and do agree with some of the points made in the agenda. I do not agree with the tourist part and all that. But some of the points they made were valid. How many times has someone comlplained of getting banned but not been told why? Stuff like that was addressed. I just believe if such a group was to get an audience with Lindens, the leaders should be elected some how. I believe there is a major risk of conflict of interest when people self appoint themself to such a role to speak for what they think is best for SL. If that is not possible, then there should be a town hall like forum for such concerns. You said what I was thinking and much better than I could have. Thank you for spewing sense into this thread. _____________________
the truth is overrated The most successful software company in the world does a piss-poor job on all these points. Particularly the first three. Why do you expect Linden Labs to do any better? |
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Beau Perkins
Second Life Resident.
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,061
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09-01-2005 20:04
I just want to note.
I WAS in this group. When I spoke the exact opinion I just did above, one of the officers response was "Beau, then go start your own group" That is the attitude it is being led with. We can all be assured it will be short lived. _____________________
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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09-01-2005 20:09
The stakes people hold may be the ones they are burnt on.
_____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Frans Charming
You only need one Frans
Join date: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847
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09-01-2005 20:22
I just want to note. I WAS in this group. When I spoke the exact opinion I just did above, one of the officers response was "Beau, then go start your own group" That is the attitude it is being led with. We can all be assured it will be short lived. I agree i'm in the same group, And it was totally uncalled for. Don't know if i will stay in it for long. _____________________
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Musicteacher Rampal
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 824
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09-01-2005 20:24
I really have nothing against self interest. Anshe's agenda is pretty understandable, and her point that there's a difference between people with thousands of dollars invested and those who paid ten bucks is undeniable... there are people with more at stake than others. I don't think it's unreasonable for her to point that out or to ask if that qualifies her and others like her for more of a say in things and more assurances. I don't have the answer and I reckon LL wouldn't explicitly state it even if they agreed with her premise. Nothing wrong with her trying to get her concerns heard. I don't agree that just becase someone chooses to spend more of their own money that they should have more say. Nobody forced them to pay more and put their own money on the line, and most of us have just as much if not more fun without putting thousands of our own personal dollars into the game. |
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Frans Charming
You only need one Frans
Join date: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847
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09-01-2005 20:54
I don't agree that just becase someone chooses to spend more of their own money that they should have more say. Nobody forced them to pay more and put their own money on the line, and most of us have just as much if not more fun without putting thousands of our own personal dollars into the game. The Lindens are promoting this platform as a way to do (entertainment)business, making it possible to have fun. People need to invest to do that. It's only fair that their concerns are heard. _____________________
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Cindy Claveau
Gignowanasanafonicon
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 2,008
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09-01-2005 21:07
I really have nothing against self interest. Anshe's agenda is pretty understandable, and her point that there's a difference between people with thousands of dollars invested and those who paid ten bucks is undeniable... there are people with more at stake than others. I don't think it's unreasonable for her to point that out or to ask if that qualifies her and others like her for more of a say in things and more assurances. I don't have the answer and I reckon LL wouldn't explicitly state it even if they agreed with her premise. Nothing wrong with her trying to get her concerns heard. The only thing I have a problem with is the veneer of looking out for the common good when this is really all about self-interest. Anshe has her obvious agenda. It's lucid and understandable even if it makes you bristle... but it has nothing to do with the common SL'er. For Prok this is still all about trying to fight the FIC... to counter the alleged influence of this imaginary group (wicked evil bad content creators!) If those are the two prime movers in this exercise then pretending it's about (the obviously very subjective definition of) justice is pretty laughable. I normally hate quoting back an entire post, but in this case I think Chip has it right. The basic (on paper) motives of this group are not at issue. But there seems to be a more hidden agenda behind some of the members that is not being acknowledged, and to me that is plainly dishonest and hypocritical. This just in: I found a candid shot taken of tonight's meeting. Note Anshe's new costume, and that's Prok behind her, looking slightly batty. _____________________
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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09-01-2005 21:11
Cindy I have a personal comment to make about you. A friend of mine showed me a picture once of you having a drink and then I read (more of) your forum posts, and I was like, "Wow! What lovely prose!" and then I thought, for no particular reason, that you'd be cool in like a superhero costume, holding a drink. Maybe even a flaming tiki one like There, I dunno.
Anyway that was several months ago and this is long overdue but I wanted to mention it complimentarily because of the image you just posted, which triggered that memory. Cheerz.  _____________________
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Snowcrash Hoffman
Digital mind virus
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 282
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09-01-2005 21:16
This was not what Anshe meant. If you are interested in promoting fairness, justice, and equal opportunity in SL, consider joining the group, rather than boycotting it. At least look into it. Read the agenda. coco The intent of the group as I read through the chat log was very clear, it was simple looking out for themselves. Which in fact I have NO problem with. Sure Anshe will look out for her interest, or you and even Prokofy, despite all his mumblings. Here is what I have problem with: the group has painted themselves with the exact disguise you are mentioning above, that they are fighting and promoting fairness and justiice and equal opportunity for the rest of us! That is unacceptable when you claim to be the stakeholder and clearly looking out after your interest and calling the rest tourists, users, mere this or that. Please do not insult my intelligence. If you going to form a group to discuss your concerns because you are afraid you may lose your business or your SL income then say so! Call your group land owners looking for justice group or whatever, but don't disguise with this BS. And then Anshe comes on to forums with a straight face and puts such a positive spin to all this, which adds to the insult further. Perhaps Philip didn't realize the disguise and clearly sounded defensive on Anshe's NDA comments. This was again stressed by Robin. They realized the trap (intentional or not) but it was too late. I was disappointed with them but now don't blame Philip, I understand how this came about. What I find appaling is that you are in the same group. This to me makes absolutely no sense. Either you are completely blind or you are putting the same disguise for self-promotion, which is it? The boycott continues! |
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Snowcrash Hoffman
Digital mind virus
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 282
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09-01-2005 21:19
I normally hate quoting back an entire post, but in this case I think Chip has it right. The basic (on paper) motives of this group are not at issue. But there seems to be a more hidden agenda behind some of the members that is not being acknowledged, and to me that is plainly dishonest and hypocritical. This just in: I found a candid shot taken of tonight's meeting. Note Anshe's new costume, and that's Prok behind her, looking slightly batty. Yes Chip is right and this is exactly my point as well. I mean come on the whole chat log put s it all in front of us. How it was "tried" to be veiled with the greater good, when the motives are so clear. The shot made me laugh Cindy, good one |
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Cindy Claveau
Gignowanasanafonicon
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 2,008
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09-01-2005 21:22
Cindy I have a personal comment to make about you. A friend of mine showed me a picture once of you having a drink and then I read (more of) your forum posts, and I was like, "Wow! What lovely prose!" and then I thought, for no particular reason, that you'd be cool in like a superhero costume, holding a drink. Maybe even a flaming tiki one like There, I dunno. OMG, I hope it wasn't the one where I kept falling down  I only do that for attention, you know. Really. *hides the empty vodka bottles*Anyway that was several months ago and this is long overdue but I wanted to mention it complimentarily because of the image you just posted, which triggered that memory. Cheerz. Thank you Torley I did play City of Heroes. My Illusionist kicked much ass while convincing you that you were actually having a back rub._____________________
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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09-01-2005 21:22
Thank you Torley I did play City of Heroes. My Illusionist kicked much ass while convincing you that you were actually having a back rub.A veritable master of the art, then! _____________________
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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09-01-2005 21:40
Anshe Chung Prokovy Neva Cocoanut Koala Zeppi Schlegel Jauani Wu Shaun Altman  I like the idea of a boycott. I also appreciate the discussion of the obviously euphemistic group title. I guess "Self-Serving Plutocrats" would be too obvious. ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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09-01-2005 22:15
It could be worse. Satan could be on the list. I like the idea of a boycott. I also appreciate the discussion of the obviously euphemistic group title. I guess "Self-Serving Plutocrats" would be too obvious. ~Ulrika~ Yay Ulrika rises!! I was waiting for this with baited breath!! (yes it was anchovies) _____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people ! |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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09-01-2005 22:46
The intent of the group as I read through the chat log was very clear, it was simple looking out for themselves. Which in fact I have NO problem with. Sure Anshe will look out for her interest, or you and even Prokofy, despite all his mumblings. Here is what I have problem with: the group has painted themselves with the exact disguise you are mentioning above, that they are fighting and promoting fairness and justiice and equal opportunity for the rest of us! That is unacceptable when you claim to be the stakeholder and clearly looking out after your interest and calling the rest tourists, users, mere this or that. Please do not insult my intelligence. If you going to form a group to discuss your concerns because you are afraid you may lose your business or your SL income then say so! Call your group land owners looking for justice group or whatever, but don't disguise with this BS. And then Anshe comes on to forums with a straight face and puts such a positive spin to all this, which adds to the insult further. Perhaps Philip didn't realize the disguise and clearly sounded defensive on Anshe's NDA comments. This was again stressed by Robin. They realized the trap (intentional or not) but it was too late. I was disappointed with them but now don't blame Philip, I understand how this came about. What I find appaling is that you are in the same group. This to me makes absolutely no sense. Either you are completely blind or you are putting the same disguise for self-promotion, which is it? The boycott continues! Neither one, Snowcrash. I'm in it for the same principles I've been espousing in SL since I joined. There is no trap. I'm not a major landowner. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. coco _____________________
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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09-01-2005 22:58
Hey Snowcrash, I'll tell you what a "big boy" is:
a person who writes a script that changes the way a majority of people play SL. _____________________
Hiro Pendragon
------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com |
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Musicteacher Rampal
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 824
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09-01-2005 23:05
The Lindens are promoting this platform as a way to do (entertainment)business, making it possible to have fun. People need to invest to do that. It's only fair that their concerns are heard. Personally, I'm a little upset with the change of attitude about SL. When I joined it was a game where anything was possible, but it was a game! All I can say is when stipends are done away with and members are expected to create or "get a job" in order to make any money at all in SL I will wish those creators luck because I'll be gone. I do not need another job...I already have 3. What I need is a place to relax, socialize, and enjoy playing with the wonderful things people make...unfortunately it takes $L for that and I REFUSE to buy what was once freely given to me. |