Open Letter

look buddy, do you know who needs no help inciting drama? you! all you have to do is go to your own profile and sort through all the threads you've started and count how many are locked.

i don't have a reference point for this. all i can say at this point is some players do behave in an unbalanced manner and really abuse others on the forum. for that, regardless of whether they truly have a condition or not, they are not above the consequences, and probably should leave the forums before LL permabans them. in the meantime i wouldn't expect LL to punish any moderate response these players might provoke.

the entitlement is yours. $$$ sigh
elitism is just the honest truth about any society, not a personal moral conviction. there are always those who are more "equal" than others. when they carry the weight of a society, it could possibly earn them some privileges. that is the basis of my point. don't blame me, i didn't invent it!

i love canned mushrooms.

I do, too. But they're so hard to smoke when they've been canned in water.

Can 'em in gasoline, now, and.... Wow! I can cotton to that.

Indeed!

There are few more versatile canned agricultural products than mushrooms! They are inexpensive, nutritious, tasty and go with most any dish!

Jauani,

(To Catherine)
<<you can also call people hitler or you can post this garbage>>

What you fail to take into account is that for the last couple of years, Catherine has been the target of a sustained attack of vilification on this forum.

I find it ironic that people who, from their postings, seem to have borderline personality disorders themselves see fit to cast aspersions on her mental state and stoop to other disgusting attacks as well. Evidently they are unable to see how this erodes any respect that one might have had for them in the past.

Yes, Catherine does sometimes respond in an overly-emotional way to some revolting attack or other. I think it is to her unending credit that she is here at all. Every time she posts something you can practically guarantee that the following posting will be a snide remark. I know that if I were the recipient of such a sustained and intense hate campaign my responses would probably be equally emotional. Rather than revealing any mental weakness in my view she has shown amazing strength of mind and character.

I have seen the mentality here of the playground bully and it is not something pleasant to witness. It's a pity that the bullies cannot see themselves from others' eyes, because then perhaps they would slink away in a mood of self-disgust.

Selador, in the interests of being impartial, I could safely say the world at large has also been a victim of a sustained and intense campaign perpetrated by Catherine.
It's not that she is a villain, it's just that she is annoying. It's like trying to have a peaceful chat with a group of friends when someone stumbles drunkenly into the room and starts shouting nonsense and demanding our attention.
And then it's the way she threatens to leave (and comedically keeps coming back), as if the whole world would collapse from her loss.
More importantly, it's always more of the same. The Second Life forums are not a personal soapbox. People who have issues should present them quietly and discuss them intelectually. Once, please, not all the time. One obviously cannot aspire to single-handedly change the world, one must adapt, or at least get out of everyone's way.
The Second Life forums are not the place to stir up controversy, and wherever Catherine goes she leaves a path of destruction. If you search her posting history you will find an enormous amount of threads started by her that had to be locked (and many that should have been).
/120/56/52368/1.html
/140/dd/52352/1.html
/120/3f/52156/1.html
/120/2c/49919/1.html
/120/86/48649/1.html
/120/7d/41354/1.html
/120/03/41518/1.html
/120/07/32817/1.html

Eight locked threads on the first page of search results alone. If you compare this with, say, Prokofy Neva, who was banned for "persistent trolling", on the first two pages of search results there are only four locked threads.

I am honored Selador, bows gracefully.

Cat

/120/56/52368/1.html
It’s a poll that was derailed and then locked due to the actions of others.
/140/dd/52352/1.html
That was thanking cristiano and eboni for derailing a thread and having it locked. A thread I might add that was very productive until they derailed it. Which happens to be this thread:
/120/3f/52156/1.html

/120/2c/49919/1.html
This thread was again a productive tread discussing the intergration of Mozilla into SL via html. It was derailed again with posts like this:
/120/2c/49919/7.html#post528988


/120/86/48649/1.html
This was a simple statement about Chicago closing and me thanking everyone. Unfortunately again it was derailed by Eboni.

/120/7d/41354/1.html
Was my personal opinion on what a group of ppl in SL, Cristiano derailed that thread/

/120/03/41518/1.html
Wasn’t even a thread, I just posted in the wrong place.

/120/07/32817/1.html
Was a statement about why I came back to the fourms after leaving because ppl badgered me into making a statement after my coming back seemed to be the talk of every thread that day.

I want to thank you Eggy it is now absolutely abundantly clear who is brining drama into these forums. More so it is personally abundantly clear who has a personal agenda to close every productive discussion I try to start here.

How long will I held to a different standard than all other posters?

You say that your post is going to be “impartial” then you go on to say
“It's not that she is a villain, it's just that she is annoying. It's like trying to have a peaceful chat with a group of friends when someone stumbles drunkenly into the room and starts shouting nonsense and demanding our attention”

I am so sorry that I am disrupting you and your friends with my opinion, but the last time I checked I had as much right to state my opinions in these forums as anyone else did.

These are SL forums, not yours or your friends personal forums to kick out who ever disrobes their peace.

So will everyone who disrupts your conversation also find their threads derailed and they are subject to the same treatment?

After two years of this being allowed to continue, I cannot help but wonder if my personal rights are being trampled on.

You threatened me yesterday to post every thread where I said I was leaving. Then do it Eggy and be done with it. I do not cower to threats of any kind.

The only time I state my opinion on matters it’s because I think it will adversely affect SL. I am passionate, and I love that about me. I will not apologize for who I am.

Cat

PS No I don't have to put up with the insults. All those who have intentionaly insulted me will now be on perm. mute because i no longer value your opinions. that includes you eggy.

How'd we end up here? Look at the first few posts in this thread.

Eggy,

<<Selador, in the interests of being impartial, I could safely say the world at large has also been a victim of a sustained and intense campaign perpetrated by Catherine.
It's not that she is a villain, it's just that she is annoying. It's like trying to have a peaceful chat with a group of friends when someone stumbles drunkenly into the room and starts shouting nonsense and demanding our attention.>>

I think impartiality has been missing from these particular threads for years.

Personally I have always found Catherine's threads interesting and thought-provoking, even if I haven't agreed with her point of view. She values sl and those aspects of it which she sees as being eroded. If that is being annoying, perhaps we need more 'annoying' people on these forums and a few less 'sane' ones.

And when it comes to being annoying, I could name you five people who really are annoying, but don't receive anything like the attacks that Catherine has had to put up with. Perhaps it's because they are male.

<<And then it's the way she threatens to leave (and comedically keeps coming back), as if the whole world would collapse from her loss.>>

Catherine becomes discouraged, feels totally depressed, leaves sl for a while, yes, feels the need to announce it, and then when she has gathered herself again, comes back. If you think that is funny, then there is something wrong with you, IMO.

<<More importantly, it's always more of the same. The Second Life forums are not a personal soapbox.>>

Really, strange that. That's *exactly* what I thought they were all these years.

<<People who have issues should present them quietly and discuss them intelectually. Once, please, not all the time. One obviously cannot aspire to single-handedly change the world, one must adapt, or at least get out of everyone's way.>>

Well, I have been constantly posting in these forums about my opposition to censorship. And yet I haven't been made victim of a campaign of personal vilification. I wonder why.

<<The Second Life forums are not the place to stir up controversy>>

Again, I find it difficult to take this comment seriously.

<<If you search her posting history you will find an enormous amount of threads started by her that had to be locked (and many that should have been).
/120/56/52368/1.html
/140/dd/52352/1.html
/120/3f/52156/1.html
/120/2c/49919/1.html
/120/86/48649/1.html
/120/7d/41354/1.html
/120/03/41518/1.html
/120/07/32817/1.html

Eight locked threads on the first page of search results alone. If you compare this with, say, Prokofy Neva, who was banned for "persistent trolling", on the first two pages of search results there are only four locked threads.>>

I took the trouble to examine the first of these threads. It begins with a poll opened by Catherine about whether or not the forums reflect a balanced view of sl. It starts well, with people being reasonably polite, and not attacking her. I was quite struck by this.

Then, suddenly, there is a totally gratuitous posting by you, attacking Catherine and the way she has come back after leaving. Then Ulrika slithers out and joins the attack. Things go from bad to worse and the thread ends up being locked.

Whose fault is that, I wonder?

The threads get locked because of the unpleasant attacks made on Catherine.

I really don't understand the mindset that makes people join the bandwagon and viciously attack an individual. I didn't like Prokofy's postings, and I expressed my dislike by never responding to them. To all pile on, with reinforcement of your bad behaviour coming from your peers, is how brutality and injustice always propagates. When I saw the reaction to the Hitler comment, an ironic voice in the back of my mind said that it was a fairly apposite remark. The selection of a scapegoat followed by social reinforcement of bullying is certainly something that happened in Germany in the 1930s.

If you wish to be impartial, all those who have taken part in these attacks, then take a step back and look at *yourselves*. Try to see yourselves as others see you. If you succeed, you might not like what you see, but it might help you treat others a little better in the future.
__________________

Some cases of forum guidelines not being enforced in an impartial manner might be due to a customer who live in San Francisco having a personal relationship, friendship, romantic, business or otherwise with a Linden staff member who also lives in the S.F. Bay Area.

More and more the forums ar being used as a place to vent personal frustrations that all too often do not originate in Second Life. And not just to vent, but also to skirt the TOS, inciting drama and acting on impulses caused either by mental or emotional instability.

The rest of us get to be punching bags for these people. It's disheartening.

*steals Enabram's sandwich*

Is this your professional opinion as a psychiatrist, Ingrid?

My impressions and opinions are that of a returning newbie and outsider (downloaded the trial and played only a few days a year ago), I've been reading the forums the past few weeks to see if SL is the game for me and a few friends from other online games I've been trying to persuade to join me.

One thread in particular springs to mind, that of a new player making suggestions regarding the Welcome Area. He was promptly derided by two posters (who also posted in this thread) for his poor grammar on top of a snide comment about "school being out", which personally I felt showed a lack of class on their part among other things. I'm sure if he were to have complained he would have been told to "grow a thicker skin" or "act like an adult and get over it", the ever so popular comments that I seen thrown at posters that take objection to being insulted or having their sanity questioned. I rarely read comments challenging the despicable treatment of some posters in the same enthusiastic manner.

I was hoping to find a creative and intelligent community here, instead when reading some of the poisonous replies to posts it not only reminds me of the bullies in the school playground but I have to wonder if some of these people were the type of children that enjoyed pulling the legs off insects . Sure, I could just stay in the game and never have to bother with the forums...but what if I have questions to ask or suggestions to make...am I going to be ripped to shreds or ridiculed for my grammar or spelling or because my opinions don't fit in with the in-crowd around here? When I see the treatment of some posters it makes me wonder whether it's really worth the hassle.

By the way, having been familiar with Coco's posts as a former TSO player, though I seldomly agreed with her opinions, she is/was an asset to that online community and that game, it's a great pity she's not being given a fair chance on these forums, would be a loss to SL if players like her left, though I guess it's like pissing in the wind to even mention this . Funny thing is, with each snide and hateful comment directed towards her, the more I find myself rooting for her

*goes back to lurking*

~ Winter

I have nothing to add on the content of this thread, sorry.

/me waves at Winter

Hi! I'm in Kent, too

Heh. Now people are gonna accuse you of being my alt, this being your first post.

Unfortunately telling people to "bite me" and calling people whores does not an asset to an online community make.

I'm not defending bad behaviour on either side. But let's call a spade a spade. No one is blameless. Certainly not Coco.

No, but as a human being I have been gifted with the ability to recognize erratic, aggressive behaviour.

I have read these forums for a while now also.
Seems to me all the turmoil is involving about 20 people tops.
Thats not much compared to the population of Second Life and, when compared to the population count, shrinks to insignificance.
The tech forums are important and the advertisements for jobs and products are important and the gnashing of teeth and the breast beating is not.

Nah,

As players in a virtual arena operating under certain goals and rules imposed by the owners of said arena, the player who most closely embodies those goals, (and entertains the assembled multitude as well), is more "valuable" than the others.

Nothing subjective about that at all.

Edit: "more valuable to the game" to be specific, I think the problem here is that you are taking the "valuable" statement as some kind of absolute statement of human worth or something.

.

Couldn't agree more. I had a habit of perusing the general forums on coffee breaks at work (frequent ones ) and responding to the fun stuff. Lately there hasn't been any fun stuff. Just long winded complaints and bickering.

I had fun last night at a party.

Today I am preparing my Garage Sale. It's very hard though. I keep pulling out stuff I haven't used in months and then going "oh no, I can't sell that".

I went by Texture's Unlimited and picked up a sparkler and some Fourth Textures.

I think we should have a forum party. We could take turns going to each other's lots tonight and waving sparklers.

If you're offended by the American celebration, you can come and bash, I've always welcomed comments and criticism.

Life is too short not to enjoy it. I'm having fun!

Ah, the forums have been so wonderful and NICE lately, haven't they?

Good thing we got rid of that bad old troublemaker. Everything is so wonderful now.

I would like to recommend that those who have personal grievances, contact the individuals with whom they have a problem directly using an alternative mode of communication. (For instance I have both email and PMs enabled.) I feel that one's willingness to take an argument directly to a person is often an indicator of the merit of that argument.

~Ulrika~

but where's the drama in that? That's no fun.