Open Letter

That might have been a good alternative to publicly posting your advice to Catherine.

And there have been about a dozen good alternatives to Catherine's postings. And a couple of good alternatives to your own posting. And for sure one alternative for this post right here.

Suffice it to say, drama will continue into all of you hatchet-toting drones shut up, and settle your scores in private like mature little bees...

Seen impartially, you and several other posters appear to waste no time at all in jumping in every thread that Catherine happens to post in. If what she says is always going to bother you, then by all means display more maturity and good sense, yourself; be an adult and ignore her posts. These fora belong to everyone in SL, not just a self-selected Committee for Mental Hygiene. We all have a right to post so long as we are not attacking other posters indescriminately. If Catherine is so very, very misguided in her posts, then WHY, pray tell is it ALWAYS the same seven or eight people who jump on her like Florida sharks? Is it that she doesn't bother anyone else quite so much?
You criticise Catherine for creating drama and ugly situations, but you're not exactly a drama virgin, yourself, Eggy. There are a few of us who can recall your doing the same damn thing during your overly prolonged and loud combat with the other residents of Blue, and hell, several times since. It is something we all do, from time to time, so none of us needs to get all haughty and judgemental on others. I think a lot of people I have met in SL would benefit from a regimen of modern psychotropic drugs - God knows I sure do. That does not give me the right to prescribe their treatment for them. Any one of us that questions the mental state of other subscribers, even if that person is a mental health professional in RL - which just wouldn't happen, they being a professional - is discriminating against and attacking that other person. I myself have thought and even stated that one banned subscriber was paranoid, on several occasions, but lately I just get the feeling that I ought to beg his pardon humbly for being so judgemental and yes, wrong.

<Insert rather loud and extremely crude laughter here> Nothing would surprise me less.

Thank you. David. This is perhaps the best post I've ever read. A single voice like this is more powerful than the majority and makes the effort worthwhile. I hope our paths cross inworld.

Nice pot-stirring, Dave.

Guilt by association eh?

I personally haven't said one word about Catherine's mental state, although I do think she is perhaps a bit too passionate, and sometimes this passion leads to emotional outbursts, and highly defensive reactions. Sometimes, it leads to the rash starting of new threads which target certain people or groups. This then leads to responses and questions. It would be really nice if folks would stop painting any and all people who question Cat with the same brush.

I hear folks screaming "attack". Since when did questioning someone become an "attack"? Where was all this righteous indignance when Ulrika was dealing with opposition to her ideas last summer? Or Korg last fall? Is this just because it's Catherine? I have a sneaking suspicion that it is.

Catherine has attacked people on these forums - unprovoked.

-Fizik
-Shadow
-Bedazzled
-an entire list of people who "ruined" her Christmas - she posted this list in-world and here on the forums. NAMING NAMES- PLEASE READ COCO!
-etc.

In other words, she asks to be responded to. The very nature of her moral high horse threads beg for response.

Coco screams about "naming names" yet has no problem when her friend Prokofy did it mercilessly for months on end, or when Catherine does it. These double standards are aggravating to say the least. Why is it that it's ok for Cat to start threads blasting people or groups, yet the questioning of her posts is such a terrible act, and is "attacking"?

The thread about a separate grid was laced with comments about a "collective", that is supposedly controlling the direction of SL.

Because of this, a part of me felt that the ImagiNation thread was possibly an avenue created for someone to wave their arms around in the air and scream "COMMERCIALISM" or "FIC" again. Still, I tried to be fairly civil, and was asking questions, and those questions were construed by Catherine and Coco as "attacks".

I responded to that thread, because I had questions about funding and staffing when Cat was still pushing for an LL developed separate grid. I wasn't about to "ignore" that David, as it had the potential to affect all SLers. Now that it's evolved into a private project, I have no issues with it what so ever.

What I do have an issue with is being lumped into a group of "sharks". I am going to say this one last time. I think and speak for myself. If some of you hyper-sensitive types out there don't like what I post - take the advice you are giving with regard to Cat's posts and ignore me. It's a two way street.

In closing - this bandying on for days, weeks and months about perceived group attacks, does no good, what so ever, other than to prolong the drama.

Pfft.. whatever... it's so easy for people to get on their moral high horses when it suits them and take absolutely no responsibility for their own behaviour. No wonder people have given up here on moved on to SL Blogger.

Ok i have 2 kids - sometimes the older kid likes to provoke the younger one ... do you know why? Because her reaction is entertaining to the older one. It's funny to him seeing her get all bent out of shape over something little. When I tell her to stop reacting in such a dramatic manner because that is exactly what he wants ... he stops because it is no longer entertaining for him.

Does this make the older child totally innocent in this case? Not at all but its to be expected at times because she does get sooo bent out of shape. Have i ever pushed someones buttons for malicious entertainment? (ask my ex husband lol) Social beings that we are ... in life we have to learn to deal with these things.

I don't feel the forum is the place for personal discussions of this nature, especially negative ones. Perhaps instead of the forums you could send Eggy an email or PM to discuss your differences. I feel that would be better not just for the individuals but the community as well.

I would also like to say that there has been several libelous statements made in this thread, some directed at LL themselves. In my opinion this is the definition of content which is the exception to the free-speech rules I discussed previously in my moderation reform thread.

If you have any comments regarding this or any of my past posts, I encourage you to email me directly at [email]Ulrika.Zugzwang@gmail.com[/email] to discuss them.

~Ulrika~

Ok, now - just to recap:

Ulrika, you can say what you wish of a personal and negative nature about others, out loud and on the forums.

But if those who the comments were about wish to reply, they are supposed to take it to PM?

So, if we have any comments regarding your posts, we are to send them to your e-mail rather than posting our comments here?

And this also applies to, let's see, Eggy and Juani?

Just want to make sure I understand the forum rules.

coco

P.S. I'd be interested to hear which comments in this thread you consider libelous.

i don't understand. you asked a question. i offered a possible answer. maybe it's your coloured glasses.

This is precisely the kind of post that should be sent directly to me by email. It names me personally, suggests behavior using sarcastic analogies (negative of course), and presents information that is neither beneficial to me, you, or the community at large.

As an alternative, I strongly recommend that you address this to me in an email. It's the difference between grandstanding for public attention and solving real issues. What are you afraid of?

~Ulrika~

I just found out today that my favorite restaurant downtown is closed for renovations. This disappoints me because their chocolate souffle is one of the best I've ever had and I was really looking forward to having some.

Can't find anyone else who serves the souffle either. Not the best day for treats, I'm afraid.

Because I don't have any personal issues with you, Ulrika.

I have issues with the forums. Those are real issues which require public attention.

coco

P.S. You don't really want me to go into your posts, do you, and drag out some of yours? Aside from the one to Catherine, there are dozens of others. Just within the last several days.

For example, if I post a picture of my treehouse after you have posted your house and someone else has posted her cake, why did you write, "envy much?" in a post, saying nothing but that? And not for the first time.

Seems to me that is just the sort of post which

"should be sent directly to me by email. It names me personally, suggests behavior using sarcastic analogies (negative of course), and presents information that is neither beneficial to me, you, or the community at large."

Do you want me to go through all your posts to find these? I could find a dozen in just the past day.

The point is, the forums shouldn't contain this kind of thing. I think two changes would fix the forum situation pretty well for everyone:

1. A crack-down on personal attacks.
2. Removing the rule which ties forum speech to the ability to play the game.

All that rule does is make people think twice about reporting posts that are attacks, because they don't want to get that person in more trouble than they deserve. If we knew that someone would spend a lifetime in jail for sneaking in the back door of a movie theater, I doubt anyone would report them to the management.

Those two changes are the only hope I see for ever making the forums a welcome place for all, where everyone can post with dignity.

coco

This all reminds me of a story.

One time me an' Pete were drinking root beers outside of ol Mr. Hunsacker's barn, talking about girls we knew and generally enjoying being teenagers. I was a year old than Pete, but he acted older than I did, so we got along pretty well. Being outside was a pretty good choice that day, since it was late spring and a calm breeze was playing with the lightly scattered straw that had escaped the barn.

We just sort of idled around for a bit enjoying the weather, when Ma Hunsacker came out and said hello. She was collecting a pair of glass jars which had been brewing tea in the sun for most of the morning.

Ma Hunsacker was always good for a little friendly chatter, and she asked us all about school and the other young people we knew and what we wanted to do when we became men. Me an' Pete were always talking about what we were going to do when we became men. Not because we weren't happy being kids, but because we were happy we were growing up.

Anyway, round about the time Ma Hunsacker started off down the hill toward the house, Pete started hollerin' about the goat.

Mr. Hunsacker liked to keep a few goats around the farm. They kept the grass cropped for him and they even kept him company when he wanted to work on his old truck.

He was always working on that truck of his.

Anyway, one of the goats had stormed out of the barn like Satan himself were chasing the poor little beast. He was headed straight for Ma Hunsacker, and she was tripping along the gently sloping hill without a care in the world, humming some favorite hymn and thinking the world was a pretty pleasant place, swinging the handled jars in both hands in time with her steps.

The goat raced right on under her feet. I guess she hadn't heard Pete calling out about the goat. The poor old woman lost her balance and fell flat on her back, tea jars flying at wild angles and landing with slushy crashes of glass.

Pete and me, we were frozen for a moment. We'd never seen anything so horrible happen to Ma Hunsacker, and we'd never wanted to. She'd always been so nice to us. We shook ourselves out of it pretty quick, though, and ran down the hill to help her.

As we came closer, we saw that Ma Hunsacker was shuddering gently. We thought she was crying at first and we really couldn't blame her. She turned to look at us, though, and she was laughing like she'd just seen the funniest thing of her life.

She caught her breath and said, "That poor goat. He surely gave me a fright. It's nothing compared to the fright he'll feel when Mr. Hunsacker takes out his shotgun!"

you should get a blog. i'd be interested in your cooking adventures.

Nolan,

<<Where was all this righteous indignance when Ulrika was dealing with opposition to her ideas last summer?>>

I seem to remember defending Ulrika at the time, despite the fact that what she experienced then was *nothing* either in ferocity nor longevity compared with what Catherine has had to endure.

Indeed, I remember Ulrika having to leave the forums at one point to try to collect herself; that is why it is distressing to see her as part of the mob now.

Great story, Enabran!

Thanks, Kim. I made it up at random based on a very cursory knowledge of the South. The funny part is I wrote it to be random, but there ended being some metaphors for behavior and forum moderation buried in there.

Really weird. I guess I owe all my English teachers a little apology. I always thought they were full of it when they ascribed deep metaphysical symbolism to random stuff in books. Maybe it's there even when the author doesn't realize it.

The longevity and ferocity of responses are proportionate to the longevity and ferocity of the outward attacks and emotional outbursts. Catherine has been beating this anti-commercialism drum, while naming people by name and insinuating that they are bad people with nefarious motives, for nigh on two years now. Interestingly enough, the same amount of time you are attributing to the the push back.

I seem to remember you joining in with the resistance to player government, not defend it. I could be mistaken. However, in this case, I wasn't really speaking directly to any one person. If you felt I was addressing you in particular, you are mistaken. it doesn't make me happy to say it, however, I tend to not pay a whole heap of attention to what you have to say. This is mainly because you always seem to want to throw out red herrings like motivations for responses being gender based, and the like. This a practice I do not like. It's a simple diversionary tactic. Prokofy used it all the time - speaking for others motivations - it's not very nice and quite insulting IMHO.

People need to learn that if they want to post in an aggressive manner, that it will be met with some measure of resistance. Simple sociological physics.

Ha ha! I assure you I am a part of no mob. If it appears that way, it's because an ad-hoc group of individuals with common viewpoints have converged on a thread to give that illusion.

To tell you the truth, I don't even know what this thread is about. I saw that people kept referencing me while airing their personal grievances (sometimes with libelous statements), so I thought I'd stop this cycle of forum abuse by asking folks to email me personally. So far no one has taken me up on that offer. I am very serious about it. I think we all have better things to do than be emotional nursemaids for a rag-tag group of forum ne'er-do-wells.

If someone would like to discuss this via PM or email directly, I welcome it, otherwise I'm done with this thread. Additionally, I will vigilantly continue to AR threads that have libelous statements in them. I've enjoyed the tone in the forums recently and I will do my best to maintain it through official channels.

~Ulrika~

I'm sorry for interjecting into this. But I have to ask about this "mob". Am I part of the "mob"? Was there a meeting where they got together and designated themselves a "mob"? I've heard reference to this group. One post said that there were emails sent out to get people to post.

The questions and concerns I had were my own, but I did assume others would be just as concerned. But to say there was a concerted effort to negatively impact on one person as if we were a herd of wild chihuahuas nipping at the heel of a big cow trying to bring it down, is not a fair assessment.

I would like to say maybe you weren't talking about me specifically but when people make a general statement that blankets the whole forum, it makes me wonder about my actions and does not serve the purpose I am thinking the speaker intends.

When did this all begin? When will it end.
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Old 03-19-2004, 11:51 AM #1
Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin


Getting a little tired
Hey feel free to not read this, feel free to let it die, feel free to respond. I don’t much care right now I just need to say something.

Since I started SL nearly a year ago I have pretty much kept to myself. I spend my days greeting noobs, socializing and my personal favorite building. I have a hell of a lot of fun most of the time.

That was then, this is now.

I wrote in these forums about not wanting any type of commercialism in Second Life. I wrote that I didn’t want to be sold any thing from RL in SL. I had 3 main points to make;
1) I play in Second Life to escape real life.
2) I felt it was an intrusion to bring real life marketing into Second Life.
3) Why should I pay a subscription if ppl are going to try to sell me real life goods?

Somewhere along the lines….
Some people thought it good to deem me; crazy, stupid, and somehow lacking in my personal beliefs, incorrect personal judgments and chose snide insinuations instead of a constructive arguments against my personal opinions. This continues to be a trend that some feel is somehow “acceptable” I find that behavior to be more childlike than constructive, and unacceptable. Any further attempts like the afore mentioned and I will not hesitate to hit the “report this post” button.

I may not be as "intelligent" as some would claim to be in SL. Then again I hold a good job, and have traveled extensively. I find assumptions about me incorrect, especially when in world I have had nothing but fun with all of these ppl, before I decided to post my personal thoughts on the subject of selling real merchandise in second life.

I feel saddened at this point and somewhat ashamed of some members in SL. With their intentional verbal cruelty. Coupled with the addition of deliberately vague hidden agendas.

The saddest thing I know is that some ppl will continue to pick apart my reasoning for the sole purpose of trying to make me feel bad. More so telling me to quit Second Life if I don’t like it; honestly pisses me off. One player does not have a RIGHT to tell another player to quit. I pay my monthly and yearly fees to Linden Labs. Not to some player. Some ppl need to get over their self-imposed importance; it has no bearing on my agreement with Linden Labs.

It does however make me wonder if others also keep quiet because of how they have seen how I was treated.

Two things will happen;
1) People think one voice won't matter; they will be treated with much hostility and venom.
2) They will see that they will be heard and have the courage to speak their real feelings.

Honestly I have contemplated on more than one occasion recently, just to walk away and let what ever happens to SL happen. When ppl say things to the affect that no one should respond to any of my posts because somehow they "should know better by now". Those types of remarks are at best childish and uncalled for in such an intelligent, creative group of ppl. Why should anyone put up with that type of insult/insinuation? No, days like that are not worth the fight.

What is my personal vision for SL?
I would like nothing more than to build, learn from others, and teach those who know less than me. I would like nothing more than to see ppl in SL create wonderful builds and share them with all of SL. I would like to see the limits of what can be done in SL. Everything from clothing to scripting evolves into the most creative and inviting 3d space there ever will be. One man had a dream in the basement of his parents home. I share that dream.

So why am I telling the reader all of this?

I hope ppl see my sincerity, my distain for current posts, and clearly see what I really think. I have no hidden agenda.

As for those who wish to bring RL products into SL.

Why?

I don't understand the reasoning. SL is not a huge environment where thousands of ppl are going to see their products. To be completely honest I think they are a bit naive in thinking that they will get rich off the members of SL.

Would their product placement be better off in something like Adobe Atmosphere? Which is where they create their real life, 3d virtual walk threw shop/store, mall. That is the purpose of that program. No one is saying "hey lets change adobe atmosphere into a SL environment where no one can sell his or her products".

Is there really a market for my name on someone’s mouse pad in SL? I don't really think there is. I think those who are singing its praise also have their own future marketing agendas. "If enough of us say its good then everyone will think its good." I think these ppl are under estimating the intelligence of the SL community.

So they need a jumping off point for their products. Great for them but honestly wouldn't Ebay be better than SL. Automatic payment system is already in place.

My last point is if their work is really that good. I or any other player would be contacting them directly to create a real life product we could purchase with rl dollars. I don’t feel I should be subjected to in world advertising of any kind.

If I start seeing real life advertising in world, to buy real life products. Then I will have to seriously reconsider paying any subscription costs to Linden Labs. I am only Linden Labs customer, not every player in SL's customer.

This is my stance. If you don’t understand it, re read it. If you still don’t understand it, I cannot make it any clearer.

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Apparently this all began over 2 years and 4 months ago. I found this post to show what has happened in the past few days is far from anything new. My views have not changed so rather than repeat them I have reposted the above from 03-19-2004, 11:51 AM

Forum changes cannot come quick enough for me. I find a lot of comfort in knowing that ppl not only now recognize what I have; but have the courage to post about them. You have my sincere gratitude.

Hugz
Cat

Oh Cat, don't worry. That's exactly what's happening. I am experiencing all those things. You have succeeded. Relax and enjoy yourslelf. That dream is very much alive and from everything I can see, it will continue.

I am so glad you explained this. Hugs!