The Death Penalty Exists For People Like This

well said frost. unfortunately, the OP started the politicing when he/she wrote the thread title.

what

I'm a he. And if expressing my opinion is "politicizing" well...*shrug*

-Kiamat Dusk

you have every right to express your opinion. i did not say otherwise. however, i'm sure you know that the death penalty is one of the highly debated social issues on this forum. the article you posted concerned child molestation and abuse, and had nothing to do with the death penalty. in my opinion, the phrasing of your thread title, knowing that the death penalty is a hotly debated issue, openly baited others into an argument, and politicized the real issue at hand, child abuse.

cuz that's what trolls do

My point was that child molestation is a crime so heinous as to be clearly deserving of the death penalty. I supported that view with stories of molestors who had been given lenient sentences only to prey on new victims.

Call it what you will-I believe that child molestors should die.

-Kiamat Dusk

What do you think should be done to the people who did this to this child?





if you are serious about wanting to kill people who diddle children, then I am anxious to hear what you think should be done to perpetrators of the evils I have provided evidence of. Be a man and not a hypocrite, if that was a white child living in the US, what would you want done to the culprits?

What is the most effective deterent from allowing the evil people who did this to do it again?

be a man and be consistent. you provided your examples, here is mine

what punishment should the killers who did this face?

Once again, the child is alive. There is no reason to remove this. Focus on removing the people who ordered this!

For those of you who don't think that photo is bad enough, take a look at some more "terrorists" that have been killed and maimed (and when I say terrorist I mean children)WARNING, EXTREMEMLY DISTURBING IMAGES OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK

And let me ask any of you who think killing a child molester is a good idea?

even those of you I normally agree with

the overwelming majority of sexualy molestation ends with the child alive

a few pedos kill thier victims after they are done to cover their tracks

which is better, a dead molested child or a live molested child?

If a person faces death for killing a child, and life for molesting, the odds are very high they will not kill the child

if they face death for either killing or molesting, why would they let the child live? the only witness to thier crime?

After all, there is no elevated punishment for killing them vs just molesting them

I believe you lose any and every deterent to letting the child live

and that my friends, is the fatal flaw in death to pedos

lets keep the kids alive OK?

You know, I usually have trouble with actual, logical debate, but endless links to articles and pictures, and really big text, that moves me. That totally moves me.

Interesting considering the prime argument from the anti-death penalty camp is that the death penalty does not deter crime.

What you're offering are "what if" scenarios designed to support your views. What I am offering are fact.

Fact: Recidivism rates among sexual predators, especially child molestors, is extremely high.

Fact: A dead sexual predator will never harm another person.

-Kiamat Dusk

Some points for you execution-happy people to consider:

In North Carolina, the odds of receiving a death sentence are 3.5 times higher when the victim is white. Kinda curious, don't you think? Maybe just a southern thing, though. Let's move on.

In Philadelphia, the odds of getting the death penalty are 38% higher if you're African-America. Oops, guess race involves itself above the Mason-Dixon line, too.

If you're a fan of the "deterrence" theory, maybe you'd like to offer commentary on Canada's 40% drop in murders since the death penalty was abolished there in 1976? That deterrence thing apparently doesn't apply if you get to close to the Arctic Circle.

Then again, maybe deterrence works. In a 2000 article, the New York Times discovered that the homicide rates in states with capital punishments are 48% to 101% higher than in those without. Oops, my bad -- guess it doesn't after all.

Perhaps there wouldn't be that many innocent people on death row. After all, there have only been 118 exonerations since 1972 from death row. That's not really too bad, is it? Not too many deaths to have on one's conscience, really.

If he raped the baby, he very well could have. Babies under 2 who are raped frequently die from the internal injuries suffered.

Bullets cost 10 cents to make? One for each of them I say.

ok lets say rape is bad but what about the ones that get away. what about there victims that have to live the nightmare for more than a decade. lets say this 12 year old girl was raped but the rapest said to the girl don't tell anyone or I"ll kill what about that little girl. that grew up with nightmares thinking that the guy would find her for telling.

You just don't get it, do you? Let me try to make this as clear as possible.

This is about deterrance. It's not about undoing a crime. It's about justice. Some lines should never be crossed and when they are crossed, death is the only just recourse. Raping a child is one of those lines.

-Kiamat Dusk

This is why predators should be executed. They leave years and years of pain and damage.

Unless you've been through it, it's unexplainable.

It's not about justice; if you cared about justice, you'd want a rapist raped and a murderer murdered. You just want revenge.



And by executing them, so do you. Do you think sexual predators don't have innocent families who are hardworking citizens, just like you and me? You feel some vindictiveness towards their families? They, too, should be punished? That's just sick.

Impact of Child Sexual Abuse

It is estimated that there are 60 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse in America today.
Source: Forward, 1993.

Approximately 31% of women in prison state that they had been abused as children.
Source: United States Department of Justice, 1991.

Approximately 95% of teenage prostitutes have been sexually abused.
Source: CCPCA, 1992.

It is estimated that children with disabilities are 4 to 10 times more vulnerable to sexual abuse than their non-disabled peers.
Source: National Resource Center on Child Sexual Abuse, 1992.

Long term effects of child abuse include fear, anxiety, depression, anger, hostility, inappropriate sexual behavior, poor self esteem, tendency toward substance abuse and difficulty with close relationships.
Source: Browne & Finkelhor, 1986.

Clinical findings of adult victims of sexual abuse include problems in interpersonal relationships associated with an underlying mistrust. Generally, adult victims of incest have a severely strained relationship with their parents that is marked by feelings of mistrust, fear, ambivalence, hatred, and betrayal. These feelings may extend to all family members.
Source: Tsai and Wagner, 1978.

Guilt is universally experienced by almost all victims. Courtois and Watts described the "sexual guilt" as "guilt derived from sexual pleasure"
Source: Tsai and Wagner, l978.

Sexuality is regarded not simply as a part of the self limited to genitals, discrete behaviors, or biological aspects of reproduction, but is more properly understood as one component of the total personality that affects one's concept of personal identity and self-esteem.
Source: Whitlock & Gillman, 1989.

Sexual victimization may profoundly interfere with and alter the development of attitudes toward self, sexuality, and trusting relationships during the critical early years of development.
Source: Tsai & Wagner, 1984.

If the child victim does not resolve the trauma, sexuality may become an area of adult conflict.
Source: Courtois & Watts, 1982; Tsai & Wagner, 1984.

There is the clinical assumption that children who feel compelled to keep sexual abuse a secret suffer greater psychic distress than victims who disclose the secret and receive assistance and support.
Source: Finkelhor & Browne, 1986.

Early identification of sexual abuse victims appears to be crucial to the reduction of suffering of abused youth and to the establishment of support systems for assistance in pursuing appropriate psychological development and healthier adult functioning . As long as disclosure continues to be a problem for young victims, then fear, suffering, and psychological distress will, like the secret, remain with the victim.
Sources: Bagley, 1992; Bagley, 1991; Finkelhor et al. 1990; Whitlock & Gillman, 1989.

Adolescents with a history of sexual abuse are significantly more likely than their counterparts to engage in sexual behavior that puts them at risk for HIV infection, according to Dr. Larry K. Brown and associates, from Rhode Island Hospital, in Providence.
See Medscape

Adolescents with a history of sexual abuse are significantly more likely than their counterparts to engage in sexual behavior that puts them at risk for HIV infection, according to Dr. Larry K. Brown and associates, from Rhode Island Hospital, in Providence. Inconsistent condom use was three times more likely among youths who had been sexually abused than among the 55 who had not. A history of sexual abuse was also significantly associated with less impulse control and higher rates of sexually transmitted diseases. According to Dr. Brown, "These results suggest two things. Abused kids need adequate counseling around abuse issues. A lot of these kids keep re-experiencing the anxiety and trauma for years." The second issue, he said, is that "most therapy does not address current sexual behavior" and the anxieties that sexually abused adolescents experience.
Source: Larry K. Brown, M.D., et al, American Journal of Psychiatry 2000;157:1413-1415.

Young girls who are forced to have sex are three times more likely to develop psychiatric disorders or abuse alcohol and drugs in adulthood, than girls who are not sexually abused. Sexual abuse was also more strongly linked with substance abuse than with psychiatric disorders. It was also suggested that sexual abuse may lead some girls to become sexually active at an earlier age and seek out older boyfriends who might, in turn, introduce them to drugs. Psychiatric disorders were from 2.6 to 3.3 times more common among women whose CSA included intercourse, and the risk of substance abuse was increased more than fourfold, according to the results. Family factors -- parental education, parenting behavior, family financial status, church attendance -- had little impact on the prevalence of psychiatric or substance abuse disorders among these women, the investigators observe. Similarly, parental psychopathology did not predict the association between CSA and later psychopathology.
Source: Kenneth S. Kendler, M.D., et al, Medical College of Virginia Commonwealth University, Archives of General Psychiatry 2000;57:953-959.
Also see review at Medscape

Among both adolescent girls and boys, a history of sexual or physical abuse appears to increase the risk of disordered eating behaviors, such as self-induced vomiting or use of laxatives to avoid gaining weight. Among those at increased risk for disordered eating were respondents who had experienced sexual or physical abuse and those who gave low ratings to family communication, parental caring and parental expectations. In light of these findings, the researchers conclude that "strong familial relationships may decrease the risk for disordered eating among youth reporting abuse experiences."
Source: Dr. Dianne Neumark-Sztainer, et al, University of Minneapolis, International Journal of Eating Disorders 2000;28:249-258.

Young girls who are sexually abused are more likely to develop eating disorders as adolescents. The findings also add to a growing body of research suggesting that trauma in childhood increases the risk of developing an eating disorder. Abused girls were more dissatisfied with their weight and more likely to diet and purge their food by vomiting or using laxatives and diuretics. Abused girls were also more likely to restrict their eating when they were bored or emotionally upset. Wonderlich suggests that abused girls might experience higher levels of emotional distress, possibly linked to their abuse, and have trouble coping. Food restriction and perhaps other eating disorder behaviors may (reflect) efforts to cope with such experiences. The report also indicates that while girls who were abused were less likely to exhibit perfectionist tendencies (such as making extreme efforts to avoid disappointing others and a need to be 'the best'), they tended to want thinner bodies than girls who had not been abused.
Source: Stephen A. Wonderlich, M.D., et al, University of North Dakota School of Medicine and Health Sciences in Fargo, Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry 2000;391277-1283.

US Healthcare system missing most mentally ill children and adolescents. More than 7 out of 10 American adolescents with mental health problems are getting no care, according to data released today at the Surgeon General's Conference on Children's Mental Health. See Medscape

Sex Offenders

The typical child sex offender molests an average of 117 children, most of who do not report the offence.
Source: National Institute of Mental Health, 1988.

About 60% of the male survivors sampled report at least one of their perpetrators to be female.
Source: Mendel, 1993.

About 95% of victims know their perpetrators.
Source: CCPCA, 1992.

It is estimated that approximately 71% of child sex offenders are under 35 and knew the victim at least casually. About 80% of these individuals fall within normal intelligence ranges; 59% gain sexual access to their victims through, seduction or enticement.
Source: Burgess & Groth, 1984.


For females in particular, teenagers who attempt suicide are more likely to have been exposed to sexual abuse. Victims of sexual coercion report thinking about suicide far more than non-victims


"The suicide rate among sexually abused boys was 1½ to 14 times higher, and reports of multiple substance abuse among sixth-grade boys who were molested was 12 to 40 times greater."

It's a good thing you put that last point in big letters. I have this bizarre brain condition where I only agree with things if they're written in really large letters.

Yeah I know. You know why? I read it the first time you posted that comment. Thanks for clarifying.

You're welcome, glad I could help. Figured if I repeated it you might get it this time, well done. Would it help if I put it in really big text the next time, and pasted it from an article?

No, that's eye for an eye. That's more revenge. What I want, simply put, is to remove the threat, swiftly, and efficiently. I don't want the criminal to be tortured. Just die.

-Kiamat Dusk

So if you find out the person was falsely accused later, and s/he was proven innocent, you'd be OK with that?

Sure. But not enough to stop. Considering the amount of evidence required to get the death penalty and the sophistication of forensics techniques in this day and age, those instances would be exceedingly rare.

-Kiamat Dusk

Well, if you can accept that in your conscience, I have no problem with that - other than to point out again that it's expensive, tends to be rascist, and has zero positive, even negative, effect on violent crime.

The fact of the matter is, it just doesn't work in the U.S., and (even if we lay aside the innocence issue) there are no foreseeable ways to make it work, without drastic changes in the rest of society.

Plus, it seems to me that condoning any kind of murder (and that's what it is, no matter what ten-dollar-word you use for it) would make me no better than any criminal. And, knowing what it's like to lose a close family member, I can't imagine supporting the imposition of that on others, regardless of what their relation did. Then you get into punishing the innocent, again.

And again, I say it should be swift and painless. Again I say, call me whatever you want. Just let me pull the switch/trigger.

-Kiamat Dusk