Club Preys on Noobs & Proposed Solution

Since the rule is you can't name names in the forums....

A well known club has a retail area where numerous free items are for sale, including even at least one Linden created item. IM me for names and location.

I know this because I received a pissed off IM from a noob about an item that we gave away free over two years ago. He had paid $100 for it. So I went down to check it out. And recognized a bunch of free stuff for sale.

Oh.. and also the Poser default animations are for sale too.

-Noobs are being ripped off and scum are profitting.
-Creators are taking the hit if the buyer is unhappy.
-People will be unhappy once they find out they were ripped off and that affects account retention.
- fair use is being stifled

We need the following:

Lindens to enforce cease and desist on these ppl, with suspensions and bannings for repeat offenders

Add a no resell option

An effective way to communicate about shady business people.

Unethical business practices hurt everyone... Linden Labs and the rest of us. If SL is really going to survive and grow, then we need better tools and the ability to enforce ethics.

You may like to point this item out to a linden, im not sure if they like their free stuff being sold in its original state anyway

It has been done, and also I have requested my free to the community items be removed.

Edit:
Interestingly enough several Linden created freebies are also being sold there.

Transfer but no resell - I would like this. Why don't we have this?

coco

Oh yeah Surreal's poor IM window is getting slammed, feel free to IM me too lol

Because we have not gotten together and convinced Linden Labs that this impacts their bottom line. We are not losing sales when freebies are sold by scuz, new people have their experience smirched... and may even leave.

I welcome a ripped off person IMing me, because I can help them abuse report the scuz and in general give them some pointers on avoiding that type of person, as well as dropping some noob goodies on them.

The main answer IMO is Convince LL that adding better permissions will impact their bottom line.

I have asked the person in question repeatedly to remove my items, and the items I knew she did not have authorization for from friends of mine. In my case, some of the stuff being sold was released through exploits. Every time she claims she will comply, then turns around and does it again. It's very frustrating.

Im not sure

I didnt need to ask lol, that place is famous lol. anyway considering you have created this content im wondering are your goods covered by the DMCA? this person is selling identical copies and linden have given you intelectual property rights?

I'd like to keep within the Forum TOS so that there is no reason to lock the thread please.

So far as Linden freebies go, maybe they should all be included in the Library folder so everybody has them to start out with. Since you can't see the items while they are in inventory perhaps a web page with pictures and descriptions of all the free Linden items could be made and linked to from the SL menu or from a button in the inventory window.

I've been fascinated by the possibility of a "FREEBIE" tag for objects for some time now. It wouldn't even have to act as a type of heavyhanded copy-protection, but simply indicate that an item is meant to be FREE, or in other words, given away without a price.

Permissions seems slow-moving in this regard. I've looked at piccies of the SL interface from many moons ago.

One thing I'm happy that's changed is that FREE TO COPY really means that now. In previous versions of SL, an object had to be FULLperms or else others couldn't copy it, and the object wouldn't give you a warning otherwise. It's even more puzzling considering you can still check FREE TO COPY AND set a price. (I've filed a bug report on that.)

Creator's wishes are important to clarify intent of what's going on, and a little tag indicating, "Hey, I really did mean to give this away!" would be a big boon.

Thank you Ferran and Surreal for letting me know that this person is selling copies of my free animations as well.

The person's name who is doing this is edited out of respect for the forums guidelines. For all of you who agree that this behavior is unethical, please boycott her business and take a second out of your day to send her an IM. (Go on, give in to the urge.) There's nothing worse than creating works for the benefit of the SL community only to have someone charge for them.

EDIT: The name above was removed by a Linden but put back in place by myself. If it is removed again and you would like to know the name of the individual, please send me a PM or IM and I'll send it to you. As you all know I don't support the Linden policy of blocking the naming of names in cases where the identity and actions of the individual are trivially verifiable -- especially when the Lindens are unable or unwilling to take action to stop behavior that hurts the whole community. (They'll take the time to edit the posts but not take so'n'so to task.)

~Ulrika~

Isn't it ammusing how the people who pick "fairplay" as a last name, generally do anything but?

Oh, wow. There is a shock right there! I never, ever would have guessed!

Yes the permissions system is abit confusing, although in the edit window it says (Resell/Give Away), if you have debug permissions on this will be indicated by a "T" for transfer and on the recievers side they will obviously see it listed as no transfer/transfer etc.

My wish has always been to split the resell/give away into two tick boxes so you can tick resell and tick give away is auto ticked or you can untick resell to leave give away ticked

resell and give away ticked will act as it does now and should be the defaul behavoir, unticking resell will disable the forsale section of an object or and object contain an item with this item in its content, but still allow you to set this item free to copy and or pass it to other users without fee.

Now that all sounds good, put there becomes a problem when your dealing with scripted gives so somehow there will have to be a check so that these items cant be given when you pay money to a vendor, maybe that wont be possible so it will have to remain no transfer from a spripted object.

Ulrika, please edit out the name so that the thread doesn't get locked. We're spreading the word.

Yah, I would hope that people would edit the names out, or that the Linden that comes across this thread edits the names out without locking. While it does go against policy to name names, I think pointing out and spreading awareness about these sort of things is important.

Bit like honestreporting.com, which in fact is a propaganda operation for one side in a very hotly disputed world conflict. It even calls for specific campaigns by its supporters, sending emails, posting in forums etc, wherever the opposite viewpoint is being too strongly put. Partial political lobbying is of course ok, for either side. But it is the choice of name for the website which is worthy of attention in this context. Maybe many people do think that their side is always the "honest" one (though not me) - but to enshrine it like that in the url is a special sort of blindness surely ?????? Others see it differently, as here with the surname "Fairplay".

You ppl want to talk unethical and complain bout thAT and that person, well heres some facts not listed by you ppl,

Said person, HAS HELPED MORE NEWBIES THEN PROBABLY MOST OF YOU.
she has always been there to help in more ways then most ppl, she gives away a ton of freebies, a ton of money. She doesnt rip ppl off.

You claim default poser animations are for sale. ANYONE can make a pose in poser, upload it, its just like the fact THAT all those little dance's and dance balls you ppl worship out there ARE FREE BHV files on the net that people pick up, claim their own. but I don't see you ppl jumping on that band wagon, all those little salsa dances out there are FREELY available off the next, 90% of the dances in SL are free BVH files. People get them, clean them up and upload and put them in dance balls, sell them to you for $600 a pop. Why do you think there are so many of those diff dance and salsa sets out there, because hello, they profit off free stuff off the net. So come on, think about it, before u jump on the band wagon of burn the club owner, look what is happening in ur own back yard. Why not look at all the stuff your charged a fortune for. Why not look closely at alot of the clothes u wear from a very popular store, and see how even alot of there stuff is fake, you've got ppl taking clothing pictures fitting them to the templates and making thousands of L's daily from it.

So dont jump on someone who spends a fortune helping others out, providing a safe place for old and newbies alike to hang, have some comman sense. People in glass houses shouldnt throw rocks

You call out the leftist bulldog and then want me to play nice? You so funny.

I'll meet you half way. If the Linden's edit the name out again, I'll leave it this time.

~Ulrika~

Personally my house is in order. Everything in our store was created by us. No exceptions. We don't sell other peoples work. period.

That she is selling other people's work for her own profit is not in dispute. Go down and see for yourself. Ask the content creator if the item for sale was not something distributed for free. If the definition of a rip off is not to charge a new person $$L for something they could pick up for free, then how do you define it?

If others are doing the same, well then... expose them as well. "Everyone is Doing it" is not an excuse.

Ever think maybe she has paid alot of L's for the resale persmission of some of these things? or uploaded her own copy's? ya once again think before u speak, maybe some logic will come out of ur mouth

I can't speak to whether there is stuff of yours being sold at the club that shall remain unnamed. However, I can speak to the last part of your post. One, if you can't name who or what place of business that you are speaking of in your post, how can others do it in theirs? Thereby, making your statement of "expose them as well" unrealistic and a fallacy as well. Because it's asking someone to do something that you yourself have stated you cannot do. Should people come along when they know that content is being ripped off and create a thinly veiled post, knowing that people will come along and state who and what is being talked about, then protest that they don't want the place named? I think it's a bit of skirting the TOS myself.

I doubt that "everyone is doing it" was being used as an excuse. However, I do feel that directly responding to someone that uses the name of the place of business asking them not to, and then not responding to everyone else dropping blatant hints, then stating that you want to not violate the TOS, is pretty shady in and of itself.