Do you consider AV Sex Cheating on your real life Spouse if the flame has gone?

Don't worry, she won't. As well as being sane enough not to attach morality to anything that happens in SL - since it's all fake, after all - I'm smart enough to not get caught. Worst case scenario, I minimize the window when I hear her coming, but she catches me with a hardon at my computer and thinks I'm looking at porn. So your hopes will remain unfulfilled.

Since you clearly think SL actions should have real world implications, I would like to express my own hope that you step away from your computer and seek therapy.

I remember that one - I think it's #412 on the list of excuses why it's ok to lie to your partner (and hiding things is deceit, just as surely as lying). "I have needs" is somewhere in the neighborhood of #411 "I couldn't stop myself, I was drunk" because both of them shove the blame off an individual's own choices.


(a) If you haven't told your wife you did it, it's a secret and secrets usually involve deceit. (b) By engaging in sexual fantasies with someone else other than your partner, you've cheated them out of your time and attention - even if she can't physicall have sex, there are other ways to provide gratification. But of course, it takes two.


No one's hurt YET, because you're keeping secrets. What are the Vegas odds on your marriage lasting?


My husband and I tried it your way, but secrets have this annoying habit of coming out and hurting people FAR more than the truth. Contrary to your assertion, we're both very much independent-minded individuals but we've made the choice to respect each other's feelings, boundaries and expectations and it is fully reciprocal. Luckily, neither of us feel like virtual flirtations are harmful as long as they remain virtual -- but unlike you, we are completely open about it with each other.

I'm not judging you. It really is your life to live your way, but I don't see good things in your marriage's future I'm afraid. Good luck with that.

You know... it occurs to me the irony in your statement that people who respect their loved one's feelings enough to abstain from masterbating at cartoons are "whipped".

You have to sneak around to touch yourself to cartoons. Do you have any idea how much worse than "whipped" that sounds?

I don't take SL seriously. It's not real. I take feelings seriously. I take honesty seriously, honor, respect, kindness. These are serious things.

You'd rather masturbate.

Who needs therapy?

No problem! Assholes will be assholes if they don't choose to respect their partners. Case closed!

It's not the cartoons that get me off. It's the cyber. The animations just provide some amusing visuals. I get an equal amount of satisfaction from engaging in cybersex in chat rooms. And you're twisting the word "whipped" to suit your purposes to denigrate me. If I only did the things she wanted me to do and nothing else, that would make me whipped.



You've made an incorrect assumption here. You're assuming that the time I've spent cybering with someone would have been spent with her anyway. Every day we have our "together time" and our "alone time". I mess around on the computer, she reads a book or watches TV or talks on the phone. I'm not cheating her out of anything. If she were able to have sex right now, then I would have sex with her just as much regardless of what I do online.





This is the best part of all. It's not enough that judgmental people like you and Burnman have to scold me for what I do in an online game, now you basically imply that my marriage is doomed. I don't see things the same way as you, therefore I don't deserve to have a happy marriage. Fantastic. Not holier than thou at all. Our marriage is great, incidentally. I have no regrets and neither does she.

I wonder what the divorce rate would be like if we told our partners everything that was on our mind. "Honey, we hired a new secretary today. Man would I love to screw her brains out! I'm not going to actually do it, but I wanted you to know that I'm probably going to fantasize about it almost every time I see her. Anyway, how was your day?" Let me guess, it's wrong for that guy to have that fantasy in the first place, right? No, as long as he doesn't act on it. And cybersex is not "acting" on anything.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Ah... this is where you have things all mixed up.

Avoiding things that legitimately hurt the woman you allegedly love is not being "whipped"... it's being honorable. It's being a man.

Get off your high horse. Your mistake is in calling her (and your) theoretical feelings on this "legitimate". It's not real and I have no emotions tied into it. Do you think I should stop admiring other women I pass in the mall because wifey doesn't like it? Or should I tell her about each one? People like you like to make these issues black and white. "She doesn't approve so it must be wrong." Typical American thinking.

I was fine with everything you said until you got to this part.

How do you know she's not also yearning for the same? Don't even ask her? Maybe she wants exactly the same thing. Maybe neither of you will ever have it unless one of you gets the courage to talk about it. Did you ever think that by avoiding the subject that you might be cheating each other out of a satisfying sex life together?

This sort of thing really pisses me off. There are too many people who don't have the guts to honestly talk to their partner about these things, but are willing to turn to outsiders to have them fulfilled.

I don't just address this to the poster I'm replying to, but all the similar cowards of this sort I've encountered over the years. Grow a set and ask, people!

Ah, so your wife's feelings are illegitimate?

You obviously don't get the point, and at the expense of respecting your wife. Gland you aren't married to anyone I know.

As for the "Typical American thinking" comment... If respecting your loved ones defines typical American thinking... let me get my American flag and sing the national anthem.

Anyway... I think you and I have said about enough to one another. It's only going to degrade from here, and I really don't feel the need to banter with you any longer.

If you think your marriage is worth risking for some virtual interactive porn, that's your problem. I don't have to like what you do, you don't need to convince me it's ok. If you really feel it's no big shake (hahahah) then go right ahead and do it.

I am still wondering why you even responded to this thread, rather than pass it by.

I think a better question at this point is, "Why are you married?"

I'm going on my own very extensive experience being married and nearly losing that marriage, that's all. Marriages don't have to be without problems - that's an unreasonable expectation. But the ones that last are usually the ones where both people are honest, even when it's painful, and where the partner is willing to listen.


Who said that? I simply think your marriage is based on secrets and is thus a sham, that's all. I'm glad it's your problem and not mine.


How could she have regrets? She doesn't know you're cyberfucking behind her back. That's hardly a fair statement. You already said she's a very jealous person, so I think we know how much the equation would change if she did know.


I don't know about anyone else, but my husband and I tell each other this kind of stuff all the time. We acknowledge that we're both human beings with a pulse, and these urges happen. Just because some hot babe at the office gave him a boner doesn't mean he doesn't love me any more. We simply don't confuse biological urges with love, that's all.

I have three words for you Derek. Stop, stop, stop!

You are never going to convince them and they appear to be baiting you into questionable territory. There is no need to justify your activity any further (or explain your marriage).

They have one rigid definition of the ideal relationship and yours is not compatible with it. I hope their relationships and yours all thrive, but if I had to bet money on which one lasts longer and with less friction, I'm going to have to go with yours.

Btw, I'm American so knock off the "typical American" crap. Even if it is true.

My definition of an ideal relationship is an honest relationship.

If that's rigid... woah is the world in trouble.

And the festival of assumptions continues! My wife has been very honest with me about what she likes. She likes receiving oral in the same position every time. She insists on giving oral in the same position every time. And she only likes missionary and cowgirl. She doesn't like anything else. That's it. Oh, and she likes to do those positions in the exact same order every time. I still married her because I love her and I don't believe you need to have a great sex life in order to love someone.



Did I say ALL her feelings were illegitamate? 99% of her feelings are very legitimate and I respect those. Of course, that doesn't fit into the picture you'd like to paint for me. Any objections or hangups she (or you) have about cybersex are where I disagree.



Risking the marriage? Wrong again. No risk involved. Even if she did find out about it (which will only happen if your righteous indignation drives you to find out my RL identity and contact her), she wouldn't be happy but she wouldn't divorce me. She's a jealous person but she still has a better head on her shoulders than the people in this thread who are actively willing my marriage to fail because I don't fit their concept of morality. You don't know her so don't even bother to debate me on this point.



Not because of the guilt complex you'd like me to have, that's for sure. I just find this an interesting topic for debate. I'm amazed by the limitations people like you think I should put on myself in a marriage. This is a harmless hobby that fulfills certain needs I have and actually helps to preserve my marriage because it eliminates the temptation to cheat in RL. I know that's some "through the looking glass" type logic for you but it's a fact. Though you don't want to believe it, I'm happy and my wife is happy. I treat her very well and what I do online does not affect how I treat her because - and this is the real key here so pay attention - it has absolutely nothing to do with her. People like you want to make it about her, but that's your problem, not mine.

Incidentally, a similar debate occurs between people who think porn encourages rape and people who think it reduces rape. I think it could have different effects on different people so I don't think you can make sweeping generalizations about its effects. People like you love to generalize, however, because it makes you feel smug and superior. Good for you.

You actually believe what you just wrote? That a dishonest relationship will last longer than honest ones? My marriage has lasted 20 years, how about Derek's?

I realize expecting our partners to be honest with us is rigid and unreasonable, but sometimes life just isn't fair, ya know?

You said you never asked her and would ever ask her, so you don't really know, do you? Talk about who is making assumptions, eh?

Does she like Pina Coladas and getting caught in the rain?

While Derek's statement might piss you off, I find yours romantically naive and quite frankly condescending.

So basically derek seens to have found a way to justify his cheating. Still its always the people who know thier wife won't divorce them for calling the 900 number or hjaving an online affair that are suprised when suddenly the aggreived spouse files for divoirce.

I have been in a situation, in another game, where I was told that hubby understood that what happend online was roleplay and what happened in RL was RL. Well a new game, new cellphone, and a pair of retraining orders later, I found out that hubby was not ok with an online roleplaying affair.

If its sex and its secret-your cheating.

Romantically naive? How so? By telling my partner what I want? I Stand by what I said earlier: those who can't bring themselves to do even that much are cowards. If you ask and the answer is no, work on your options from that point. But to not even try, that's the mark of a gutless weakling. A gutless weakling setting him/herself up for an unsatisfying relationship.

Having this discussion with a friend, who is married and seeing a married man in game. Both want divorces but can't get them for various reasons. Both feel suspicious that their SL partner is cheating on them with their real life spouse!

I think coming into this game as a married person is kind of dangerous. Even if you don't ever intend to cheat, something does happen unless your real life spouse is here with you and unless you have ground rules with you real life spouse.

Another friend was seeing a married man and was told that his activities with her were improving his sexual relations with his real life wife. My friend was hurt, even though she said she never expected or wanted the relationship to leave the confines of Second Life. Later she found out she wasn't the only person he was having "activities" with in Second Life either.

Emotions come into it, people get hurt, especially if lying is going on or when clear boundaries and expectations are not set. Why get married at all if you don't intend to honor those vows you made to the person you marry? What is the point at all?

Yes, this is what I mean by "rigid", and what I believe Derek referred to as black-and-white. If you don't tell your partner your every thought and action then you are dishonest, your relationship is a sham, you don't love her, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I will try to take the advice I gave to Derek and stop now because you guys are just ridiculous. I'm still laughing at the fact that being in one successful (so far) relationship qualifies you all as experts, and even more so that your marriage that lasted 20 years is more valid than Derek's whose has lasted only 8.

Well, I don't think that openly checking someone out in front of your wife is tasteful or a very nice thing to do, and neither is telling her that your secretary is really hot after a long day's work (Cindy, that may be fine for you, but I'd object to it, personally).

It's ok to be attracted to other people, but I don't want it rubbed in my face. After all, I'm attracted to other men as well. I just don't pursue it.

There is a line between being attracted to someone and actually doing something about it -- sharing sexual desires with the person you actually love and trust is really amazing. Marrying someone who's just your "best friend" seems kind of sad to me, but that's my opinion. Seems to me that certain doors are shut when it comes to sexual exploration in your marriage Derek. That's a shame.

It's romantically naive thinking that you can just air all these deeply emotional issues and that it will all work out.

So the hypothetical Derek should just tell his wife that she is not fulfulling him sexually, that he doesn't find her as hot as she was when they were first married, that he thinks about having sex with other women all the time, that it is less work (and possibly more satisfying) to live out his fantasies online than to try to nudge her into something new.

That's your proposal, is it? Given your vast knowledge of hypoDerek's wife, what do you think her response is likely to be? You are "romantically naive" if you think she will change her personality, change her sex drive, and change her personal habits and lifestyle.

Do you think this kind of honesty is really always in her best interest? Then you are indeed romantically naive.

Derek has made a calculated decision to do what's best for himself, his wife and their overwhelmingly happy relationship. He knows himself, his wife and their hypothetical circumstances much better than any of us, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's doing the right thing.


I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to say that the vast majority (although not all) of the women here who have this romantically naive view of honesty in a relationship are in relationships where their partner is not being completely honest about his sexual fantasies and more specifically his sex life with you. And thank them when you get home, because they're doing you a favor. (Take it from me, your younger sister is hotter and he does want to have both of you at the same time.)

(I'm using the "hypothetical Derek" here, because I don't want to speculate too wildly about Derek and his wife, which apparently doesn't stop the rest of you.)

Well then... a little more information that I was expecting... lol



I don't have any hangups about cybersex... I have issues with dishonesty.



I personally never said I hope your marriage fails. I said I hope she finds out.



This part actually made me laugh outloud! If honestly is a limitation, than WOW is your world view a little off. My whole issue from the beginning has been about honesty. You can rationalize and justify it all you want, but it basically boils down to deception. You know it would hurt her... so you hide it.

I wonder how happy she would be with you if she knew about the deception. Cyber aside... honesty is an important thing in a marriage. Combine the two? I don't know your wife... but from what you've said, I can imagine she'd be pretty upset.

As for who's problem it is? It sure isn't mine... I am not the one in your situation. You're the one all bent out of shape that people have judged you unfavorabely because of your "hobby". That, bucko, is *YOUR* problem.



I've never heard this one before... interesting perspective. I doubt it has any validity to it. Oh... and I haven't made any sweeping generalizations. I just said you aren't being honest.