Do you consider AV Sex Cheating on your real life Spouse if the flame has gone?

It all depends on whats allowed in the RL relationship. If your partner doesn't want you to do ____________ and considers ____________ cheating. Then so it is.

I know couples that come onto SL together from RL and seperate here to find seperate loves in the realization that this is indeed a fantasy world. While it is true real life emotions can get involved SL gives you an unprecedented ability to block people off.

I would have no problems if my SL partner had someone IRL. I'm not looking for RL here, I'm looking to escape the humdrum every day grind. Several times during life I have had a RL girl and a whatever world I'm in girl. It's not something I do much anymore mainly because of my own emotions getting muddled than my partners

You do not need a "case", all you have to do is cite "irreconcilable differences".

So... do 15 pages guarantee enlightenment to those willing to read all 15 pages?

Cause I'm on the edge of my seat here at page 3....
wait. I just fell out of my seat. Nevermind.

I seem to remember a divorce case in the last few years where a guy was having cyber-sex online in a chat room with this lady whom he subsequently made a RL date with -- in the divorce, the judge ruled that the cybersex counted as adultery since it LED TO a RL date.

Personally I look at this as the next level of interactive pornography. The only thing differentiating a Dating Sim or a pornographic computer game (such as Leisuresuit Larry) is that the characters are controlled by another person, rather than by the computer. There are some games that are essentially a case of you select the pose and speed, etc etc etc.... (look for a Furry-based flash game called Hightail Hall) To me, sex in SL is the same. You are a character. You have certain commands that you can use to cause pleasure to another character (just like in HTH). The only difference is that the character is not controlled by the computer, but another person. This is where the grey area appears. I see it as a way of getting a pleasurable experience, no strings attatched (like with pornography). As long as you don't get attatched to the other player.

As has been mentioned before, there is an element of education in such actions as well. If I hear of certain positions I can always think of trying them out, but normally I only have a breif diagram. What about sex-related furniture? what would it look like, how would you sit on it? would you be flexible enough? all questions that can be answered through SL's sex ability. You can try out those a-frames, see what sort of shape your legs would have to make to fit properly, or see how far your neck can crane backwards, ore even just see whether you'd have enough back support. Assuming you're into that sort of stuff (I just like beds personally).

I have a Girlfriend in RL. We know about each others pornography (even though she thinks Furries are kinda strange), and that it is accessible. I love her with all my heart and our relationship is great. If I thought what I was doing was cheating then I would stop. But I feel it is just another way of getting teh same experience as you would from pornography. If I got attatched to a certain SL character, then I would see this as a problem to our relationship and would consult her about it (my RLGF that is). I'd probably recieve a slap in the face and a kick in the unsavories, which I'd deserve, and probably lose her for good. Now I know I don't want that to happen.

As I have mentioned, I am also a Furry. Now people are generally on one of two sides about furries, either they hate them with a passion or don't care (assuming they're not one). Now, it is physically impossible (at the present) to morph into a polarbear and have sex with, say, a vixen. In SL I can do that. There is an element of fantasy, of fiction. I can BE a polar bear (or rather, the anthropomorphic personification thereof) and have sex with another anthromorph. Really it's just making my dreams a realisation. Hell, some of the characters real-life personas are of the opposite sex. This doesn't phase me, it's not about who I am behind the keyboard interacting with the other person behind their keyboard, it's character on character.

Masturbation. It seems the clinching point in most peoples arguments. If one masturbates (or for that matter orgasms) while watching such acts displayed, is that considered cheating? I'm still undecided. I think it largely depends on the context. Where you masturbating due to the feelings you were getting due to the other character's/person's actions toward your character/person, or because you were watching two 3D figures have sex on the screen? Are these the same thing? I believe they are different, but one can progress to teh other. It may start out as just a couple of 3D models having sex, and turn into feelings of passion for that specific character. In which case I believe s the defining line, but that's just me.

For instance. Say I meet a person, lets call her Francine. She offers to take me back to "her place" I get there and there are so many poseballs it looks like a kids amusement center. I decide to go for it, and our SL characters go at it for a while. I get some pleasure for watching two figures on the screen go throught all manner of sexual positions, and I have a little fun. Is that considered cheating? Next day though, I log on and am sent an IM from Francine asking if I were up for some fun. I say sure and ask when. She replies by saying she's with someone at teh moment and to wait a while, then go over to hers. Is she cheating on me? Am I cheating on my RLGF if I go in a littel while to meet up with her? I learn later that day that she in in fact guy from germany in his late forties (meh, just picked a location and age at random, no real characters or people are intended to be portrayed) but I decide that it's the character, not the person that I play with, so it doesn't phase me. Does this mean I'm homosexual, or bi at least? Eventually I decide I like Francine's spontinaety about where to go (such as Heaven Above the Clouds) and refuse offers from others as Francine knows me well enough to know what poseballs I like, and knows what xcite actions to use. Now am I cheating?

Personally, I think only the last situation would be true. I am incredibly satisfied by my GF, and want to eventually marry her (gasp) and just because I seek out virtual fun, doesn't mean I love her any less, or love another more. It's the next stage of interactive pornography. That's all.

I would think this means she had a problem, not me.

computers are weird.

You have to ask yourself two questions; Does the "sex" the spouse has on SL help put fire back into the RL relationship? and Is there RL interaction with the SL lover outside SL via messengers, phone calls, emails, etc.? If the answers are No to the first and Yes to the second question then it is unfaithful behavior in my opinion. I also believe though that the spouse should know if their is a virtual relationship occurring regardless of the answers to the questions. whether it is RL or SL, there are still emotions involved to some degree between players within online games.

Consider this:
If you engage in cybersex with someone other then your spouse, is it cheating on her with another person or is it cheating on her with your hand while thinking of another person?

Personally, I leave the sexing to real women that I can see and touch.

Why does the fact the flame has gone have any significance as to whether something is cheating or not? If the flame has gone you can either:

1. Try to re-ignite it.
2. Extinguish the smouldering coals and look for another place to start a fire.
2. Come to a mutual agreement that it's ok to play with matches elsewhere.

What constitutes cheating will vary from individual to individual. The important definition then has to be: Cheating is simply having intimacy with someone to a level that your partner would not be happy about. The specifics of what constitutes cheating has to be defined between those in the relationship.

I don't agree at all. I can't think of any scenario where lying and deceit are not considered the basis of "cheating". If you're not lying/deceiving and your partner is fully aware of what you do and permits or approves, you're not cheating.

This really isn't all that hard to figure out.

I agree, it really isn't hard to figure out. The comment you quoted was based on an observation from not only posts in this thread, but umpteen other 'views' that we 'pick up' on this subject in all walks of life.

Although I accept that cheating has a fundamental definition, I then went on to define cheating with respect to what level of intimacy is considered cheating, as that seems to be the the subject at hand: "Cheating is simply having intimacy with someone to a level that your partner would not be happy about." Obviously, for one partner to engage in a level of intimacy not acceptable to the other partner, that's cheating, deception, lies. I'm in no way suggesting that someone should decide what is an acceptable level of intimacy on bahalf of their partner, but that there should be solid communication and a clear understanding between both partners. It may have not been worded to your statisfaction, but I feel it represents the very same views you have posted above.

Ah, the question that surrounds the "What happens in SL stays in SL" quote I see in so many profiles.

Well, personally, I look at it this way. Intimacy which goes beyond the bounds of your RL relationship is indeed cheating. Whether it is virtual, or actual, if it would hurt your significant other's feelings... then it is obviously cheating.

As Cindy said, lying and deceit pretty much sum up cheating. I would like to add one little point though... Omission of information is deception.

What happens in SL was originated by a RL person at a keyboard... and is received and responded to by another RL person sitting in their living room. I suppose what happens in SL, happens in 3 different places then... only one of them being virtual.

I don't buy this. What if she thinks talking to another woman about anything is considered cheating?

My wife gave birth a month-and-a-half ago. She's still recovering. I haven't had real sex in several months and it may be a while before she's ready to continue a normal sex life. I've found SL escorts to be an effective method of serving my sexual needs without actually going out and hiring a real escort.

I have no emotional attachment to these "women" because they're not real. The person controlling that av might not even be a woman in RL. To say that this is cheating is absurd. No, I don't tell my wife because she wouldn't understand and it wouldn't be worth the hassle. It's the same reason a lot of women don't understand why guys look at porn. "Why can't you just be happy with me?" I am. But I also want to screw other women. Any guy who doesn't even think about that is probably lying - possibly even to themselves.

SL sex and online sex chat are my way of pretending to screw other women without actually doing it. I put no emotions into it, I can't catch any diseases, and nobody gets hurt. And to pre-empt the question, it would not bother me if my wife did the same thing - although it's unlikely that she would. Along with the lack of recent sex problem, I also tend to like my sex A LOT dirtier then I would ever ask her to do it. I respect and love her so I wouldn't dare ask or expect her to engage in my darker perversions. If I'm chatting with some random online or paying an SL escort, it's fair game.

Sorry if this kind of post has been made already, I didn't feel like reading the whole thread.

Hmmm... I have heard the same argument used to justify sleeping with *actual* hookers in RL. "Honest hun, they don't mean anything to me!!"

If cybersex hurts your significant other... and they consider it cheating... it doesn't matter what you think about it.

Might sound harsh... but in the grand scheme... your significant other decides what will offend or hurt them, and if it's bad enough... they are the one that will walk out on you.

Absolutely, yes. In my case, my RL husband is free to read my emails (he has my passwords, and I have his) or watch me in SL whenever he wishes (an option he hasn't chosen very much). He always has been, and the outcome is that we trust each other more because we know there is a way to confirm suspicions if they ever come up. Nothing can be hidden between us, we've set up the situation so that deceit is very difficult to achieve.

We talk about things constantly and have sought to always reinforce our communications with each other. If I ever have to stop and wonder if he'd approve of something I want to do (even in a virtual world like SL), then my answer is "Don't do it". It helps, too, that we have a very secure marriage and neither of us feels threatened easily.

I have girlfriends who see pornography as the moral equivalent of cheating, and while I fail to see their justification I think their attitude is also unforgiving enough to create situations that encourage deceit. Men are visual creatures - if he's not getting the visuals he needs with you, ask yourself why that is or else give him enough slack to get the visuals as long as he comes to you for the "happy ending"

Are you actually implying that there's no difference between a RL escort and an SL escort? Give me a break. One is real sex with a real person with a real risk of passing on STDs to my loved one. One is fake sex with a fake person with no health risks whatsoever. In fact, it's good for my health because it helps "clean the pipes".

I know some people use the same argument regarding RL sex with other people. That's their delusion. This is not comparable, and if you think it is, you take this "virtual world" way too seriously.

My partner does not get to dictate what is right and wrong for me to do. And I don't get to dictate what is right and wrong for her to do. If she is doing something I wouldn't approve of - but there's absolutely zero chance that what she's doing is going to hurt either one of us - then I'm better off not knowing about it.

Am I supposed to not flirt with the women at my work because if my wife knew I did that, she'd get upset? I love her, but she's very jealous. Yes, I married her knowing that, and my survival mechanism is not telling her about the things I do that would make her unreasonably jealous.

Ultimately, somebody who lets his/her partner decide what's appropriate in regards to this kind of thing is whipped. I know what it means to truly by faithful to my wife. She's the only one I love and the only one I will have have real sex with for the rest of my life. Anyone else's judgements on my cyber-sexlife are irrelevent to the reality of what's in my heart.

What do you care what I think of what you do? Is it a sensitive issue?

My point, was not that SL and RL escorts are the same. My point, was that if it would hurt my significant other, what's the point?

I take feelings and impressions seriously. I don't really care what people do in SL or in RL, so long as I (or people I care about) am not hurt in the process.

If you are into cyber, that's your deal I don't think any more or less about you for it. If you are not being honest about it with your significant, that's also your deal. If you feel that being dishonest in your relationship works for you... well, good luck with that. I don't understand your logic, but it isn't my life.

It's not what you think specifically, it's the whole "blurred lines" mentality that a lot of people seem to have that irritates me. The fact that more than 50 percent consider this cheating indicates to me that a lot of people take this virtual world too seriously.

What constitutes cheating may not be a black and white issue but if I don't even know who the person on the other end really is, then I'm not doing anything with a real person. The whole thing is a fabrication - and therefore quite clearly not cheating. It is certainly a deception because I'm doing something my wife wouldn't approve of, but that's not the same as cheating.

Similarly, I'm not honest with my wife about some of the things that turn me on because that knowledge would probably wreck our sex life, and ultimately our marriage. I've come to realize that while she is my lover, she is more specifically my best friend and that is why I married her and will stay faithful to her. I could have found someone with similar sexual tastes to mine, but who's to say if that person could also be my best friend? Ultimately, most of us have to "settle" in some areas when we select our life partners. This was the primary area in which I settled, and cybersex fills in that gap for me so I can stay faithful and happy.

What sticks out in my mind when I read your post is that you are bothered that half of the people that took the survey believe that cyber is actually cheating, and that you feel the need to rationalize it. Part of me things that might be a little bit of a guilty conscience... but that is just an impression, not an accusation. I would like to mention that I say this not as an insult or to incite forum drama... it's just something that popped into my head, and I was curious of what you thought.

To me, cheating is anything that crosses the comfort lines within a relationship. If I am unhappy with those lines, I need to either find another relationship with a different map, or sacrifice some things in the interest of honor. This is how *I* perceive things, and I certainly don't expect everyone to be like me.

I am not going to judge people for enjoying cybersex. What I do judge people on is honesty, respect, kindness, and loyalty.

Explain how SL cyber sex is much different than the 900 phone sex numbers you can call (except SL doesn't charge you $3 a minute)? Is having phone sex with someone when you know your wife would be upset NOT cheating?


You're missing the point. It's not a matter of them dictating to you, or vice versa -- it's the whole covenant of trust you establish when you marry someone. If you wish to avoid hurting them (because you love them), then you won't lie or deceive on purpose. Did you enter into a marriage or relationship mutually agreeing NOT to respect each others' feelings?


In other words, you know certain things upset her, so instead of refraining from doing those things you just don't cop to the truth.


Ah, ok, that sentence answers my prior questions. It's not respect for you, it's "being whipped".

This is a horribly moronic thread with a naively, poorly worded title.

Thanks for contributing something useful.

This kind of comment was inevitable. The whole "me think thou dost protest too much" routine. I have no guilt about cybersex. It's what I need to do to satisfy my sexual needs. It's the right thing to do because it means I don't get tempted to cheat in real life. Opportunities to cheat arise, but I know I can just "act out" a fantasy with an online partner and feel no guilt about it - because it's not real.



Phone sex isn't cheating, either. It's not sex. It's talking. I suppose a distinction is that you have more evidence that you're talking to a real woman with phone sex, but then some dudes can disguise their voices well. With cybersex, I'm sure many of my online "partners" were just guys in disguise. Does that mean I was actually having gay sex? Nope. Because it's not sex... because it's not real.



I don't follow you. It would hurt her more if I told her about this stuff. I need to do this to satisfy urges that can't/won't be satisfied in my marriage. No one's getting hurt here. I respect her feelings but that doesn't mean I agree with all of them.



If you don't have a mind of your own and all your actions are dictated by what your partner wants - yeah, that's "whipped". I can respect her wishes without obeying every single one of them. I'm married but I'm still an individual. People who say that they tell their partners EVERYTHING creep me out. It's like they stopped being individuals once they got married. It's a union, not a graft.

I hope she catches you.