Ban Child Avatars Being Used for Sexual Purposes

Yes that should be the correct way.


Yes mabey I created a hard time for her/him to explain why she/he wrote that.
But I think Torley will answer my question/statement and hope that at least she/he knows why I got so pissed about it. We are not talking about shoes or prim hair, its about child porn (and what I call AV Child abuse). Its nothing personal. Its just me and an opinion from a Linden that colided.

And yes more Lindens should tell their opinions about their policies.

Well I'm glad we can at least agree on something!

So, in other words, because of a possibility of crime, we should make something that isn't criminal criminal? Do you REALLY want to go down that road? Think about it for a minute before you answer.

YAY!

Aww I am not that bad (but I am ugly).

I am just against child porn and think we should try to ban this as much as possible. And yes I know how hard that will be and that that also will be unfair to some puppeteers in our community. But we cant do anything about it (see the bush guy). The Lindens at least can make a statement in their TOS that they wont tolerate Child porn in any form.

I'm still waiting for you to explain where the abuse is.

If it weren't for the fact that aEoLuS (BTW, the "l33t caps" thing is, in general, fucking stupid, IMO; and no, I'm not attacking aEoLuS, just the process he used) joined almost a year before bella, I'd be thinking he was her sockpuppet. Different writing style in general, yes, but the same dogged adherence to emotion-packed vitriol, ad hominem attacks, and actively misunderstanding what others are saying for the sake of straw man arguments.

[edit]And, like bella, aEoLuS is now residing on my ignore list, too. I have to deal with assorted goobers on a daily basis, I don't need to add to the aggrivation.[/edit]

And this thread, too, needs more cowbell.

(Yeah, it's getting a little old, but then so are these stupid "child av sex" threads. )

In RL I can call you whatever I like (within the boundries of my countries law). In SL I cant because a TOS doesnt alow me to do that.

They could add this rule: No AV child porn in SL!

aEoLuS...do you REALLY see an adult roleplay a child in possible virtual fantasy sexual situations as comparable to actual child sexual abuse? Because if so, you have lost ALL perspective. I personally find yours and Bella arguement to be gross and disgusting in the way it warps, hides and belittles the issue of REAL world child sexual abuse where actual children are involved.

You disgust me.

Not true! SL bans hateful expressions of those words. If a friend calls me a fag in private, that's fine! It's only a crime when a crime is commited.

How hard is that to understand, really? That's the whole problem with both you and Bella's arguement. You want a minority-report like future where people are punished for crimes they haven't commited. That goes against the fundamental principles of law in America, for good reason.



They could also ban homosexuality and religion. World of Warcraft recently had a go at that. But since neither hurt anyone, I would hope they wouldn't. Likewise, as disturbing as I find the concept of this sort of fetish, since it hurts no one, I would hope the LL wouldn't ban it just to enforce one version of what is Right and Proper(TM).

Its child porn. I am against that. Nothing more nothing less.. Its not about the RL its about SL.


Sorry to read that, hope you get well soon.

There are no children in SL.

Viola! Your problem is solved!

If you wanted to perceive it that way, you could say it's already included - in fact I'm sure that those who do AR such acts cite this very thing - that you cannot have content 'likely to cause widespread offence'.

This is usually reserved for things like Nazi Concentration Camp reenactments and hate speech. Could it apply to child avatars having sex? Maybe it could. A lot of people would surely say so. People tried to apply the same logic to Bush signs and LL disagreed.

And again in this case, Robin has already spelled out LL's position adequately, I think. It's no more deserving of a special clause in the ToS than the Bush guy. The answers are here if you want to read them, and if you disagree with LL's position, then you have to change their mind, I guess. With logical reasons beyond "because I think it's wrong", I imagine (which is where the Bush Guy protestors fell down, too).

Exact so calling me a whatever bad word you can think of is enough to get (worse case scenario) banned but child porn is ok because its our right there isnt a law against it but make sure you do it in home cause else its offensive.



Cant talk for Bella, I just responded on a post from a Linden.
And cant talk about the laws in your country. But I do hope that all ppl are against child porn.



I just want to hear that they are against child porn. In whatever form or whereever it happens.

I'd also like to know just how you plan to determine who is a child avatar and who isn't? What makes one look a child in real life? What makes onelook a child in SL? These things are aribitrary and nothing but stereotypes to begin with.

My own oldest daughter is 13...but has the physical bodily maturity of someone in their 20s. She is 5'8" tall (almost 3 inches taller than me now), wears a c cup bra, and got her period at 8. On the other hand, I have a longtime friend that is 43 now...she is 4'11" tall, and almost totally flat chested, petite and cute. Which is the child and which just looks the child?

In SL...my avatar is 4'9" tall...shorter than some people playing child avatars. She is flatchested too. A "cute" Japanese girl and very different from my own real life average hieght and busty chest. But I am not playing a child avatar in any way. How do you differentiate me from others who do play child avatars? Explain that to me?

I was a victim of child abuse of all kinds including sexual for most my childhood. You could make the, perhaps valid, arguement that I am now stuck in or fixated on the broken and screwed up childhood I went through and even at 39 make "child like" characters in games and in virtual worlds unconciously as some form of projection of the broken inner me. That could be a valid arguement. But, I do not conciously do so, and I do not take part in "Ageplay" or openly roleplay a child. My avatar does not dress particually childlike, nor do I act childlike...I act like me since I don't actually roleplay in SL outside one Victorian themed sim in Caledon. Will I get caught up in your personal witch hunt to ban child avatars? I have had sex in SL...though not in public and more rarely than most anyone I know. Is a short avatar played by a 39 year old mother possibly having sex considered child porn to you?

I see this whole things as a disgusting and warped personal ego-driven witchhunt.

As a mother, and as a victim of child sexual abuse, I find all these threads, and all this ego-stroking by a few "outraged" people to be nothing but grotesque parody that belittles and obsures the real vitims in real life. Get a grip and grow up.

(edit - not aimed to you zoe, you posted faster than me)
that's what i said, people loose completely their capacity of objective judgement when the subject touch them emotionally.

I don't give a rat about it, i crossed a few stuffs that where weird to the point of being disturbing, but it'snot really hurting me.

And i saw very curious things, like devices that entomb you alive in concrete. Want to ban this too? its the picturing of some atrocious way to kill someone after all.

If you want to put a blanket ban do it fully and ban the right to think out of the "clean and proper" way of life or don't do it at all

Well thats very difficult. But its not about that isnt it?

Its all about a statement that they are against Child porn in sl.
And not like Linden is doing now: "its ok to do it in your home".

Yes thats so right!

Since there ARE NO CHILDREN INVOLVED, thus NO CHILDREN BEING HARMED, what buisness is it of anyone elses hwo they enjoy themselves in private? That goes for the lindens, too.

Last I looked this thread was about BANNING people in SL for playing child avatars and having sex with them. So, yes that IS what this is about.

When there is a call to ban something it needs to be considered exactly how that thing will be officially defined and how the ban will be applied. How EXACTLY do you suggest this be done? In detail...because Lindens need a detailed public set of rules to use and apply fairly to all.

Is it based on Avatar height? Look out tinies! Is it based on how we dress? What is the guidelines for defining a "child" in SL when no actual children are involved? Simple enough IRL to just set an age limit...but that isn't possible here. What are the rules to be?

How do we define "child porn" in a situation when no real children are involved? Easy enough if someone is packaging and selling a "Child sex" magazine in SL. I agree that is over the top, offensive and likely should be discouraged and stopped by the lindens. But I am not aware of anyone selling such things...at least not openly.

When it comes to two consenting ADULTS...one of which may look child-like...having sex or behaving in a sexualized manner...where do you draw an exact line? How do you define it? It has to have an EXACT set of guidelines...and to be honest any rules set by the lindens will be arbitary and infringe heavily on the rights of those noot even remotely involved in ageplay.

Should we just set a minumum height limit of 5'6" tall? Limit the breast slider to the ever popular "hugely grotesque and immpossible" X cup size? What about male avies? Force em all to have facial hair so they don't look like kids?

No matter what arbitary rules you set to discourage this behaviour...you will stiffle any creativeity and uniqueness in SL, and infringe upon the rights of thousands who have nothing to do with Ageplay. It will become a witchhunt with people making accusations against people they dislike saying they heard them roileplaying a child in sex, etc. Salem and McCarthyism all over again.

You could limit all avatars to featureless cubes...and yet people will still do ageplay in a text only context. The behaviour will not have been stopped.

What disturbes me most is how much energy people like you put into a situation where NO real children are involved at all. There is NO victim here. Yet IRL, children are abused daily for real. Why don't you just hang up your SL account and go do some volunteer work with real victims if you are so outraged about child sexual abuse? That's what makes me so angry. You rant about a victimless situation yet the real victims are being made daily...and I doubt you have put a fraction of the attention and effort into stopping THAT that you have into stopping adults wearing short avatars while sitting on some stupid pose ball.

i was critizing your lack of objectivity in this discussion actually

"Child porn" is wrong. It doesnt mather if you draw porn pics of children in RL and watch that or see it digital in this "game". Its called "child porn" and its just wrong. It doesnt mather if children are involved (Lets hope they never get involved in that in this game). But its child porn and should be forbidden.

If you think there are no minors on the main grid, you are delusional.

how can you wish to be taken seriously if you let your emotions over this subject blind you.
'It is wrong" isn't a valid argument

rejected

Yes I know, but that doesnt mather
Works both ways

*notices Zoe's post*

What she said.

(Darnit, I was all prepared to make a witch hunt allusion myself, complete with monty python references, and you had to go and make a better post first.)

And what Reitsuki and Kris and so forth, said, too.