Ban Child Avatars Being Used for Sexual Purposes
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-27-2006 12:15
From: Corvus Drake SO technically, it's fantasizing about an adult pretending to be a child, not fantasizing about a child. What makes you think they are not a minor? There have always been minors on the grid, with several people of note just turning 18 within the past few months after the teengrid and were never forced over there. There are children on the grid. Are they playing with child avies? We can't be sure, but it is not possible that everyone on the main grid is over 18, it has never been the case in the history of the grid.
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-27-2006 12:16
From: Reitsuki Kojima If you're going to make a blanket statement like "Being a furry leads to bestiality" or something, then I would expect more research than an HBO show. I thought she said being a fury leads to boning people in animal costumes as seen on HBO.
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
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03-27-2006 12:16
From: prak Curie Crimes require, or at least should require, a victim. It is an important line and not one I would like people to so casually give up; even to protect children. It is the way we punish people for what they do and not what they think.
It is more important to guarantee people are free to think than to guarantee they are free from having been molested. Exactly. The cost of the rape of the mind is far worse than the rape of the body. A body can recover. No victim, no crime. Period.
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bella Ophelia
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 152
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03-27-2006 12:18
From: Corvus Drake Still, the only sexual fantasy we're discussing with any real attention involves an adult roleplaying a child and an adult roleplaying either another child or an adult.
SO technically, it's fantasizing about an adult pretending to be a child, not fantasizing about a child.
So, not pedophilia. The definition of pedophilia is fantasies including a person 13 years old or younger. It does not make an allowance if it is two pedophiles sharing the fantasies because there are no children present... fantasy including 13 and under is pedophilia. If one man is pretending to be 8 and another is fucking him, the fantasy is including an 8 year old child... it is not a crime by the laws definition, but it is the medical definition of a pedophile.
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Tren Neva
Registered User
Join date: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 619
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03-27-2006 12:18
From: Reitsuki Kojima If you're going to make a blanket statement like "Being a furry leads to bestiality" or something, then I would expect more research than an HBO show. Being a furry doesn't lead to bestiality, but the concept of furry is based on bestiality. Just like the only reason kids look like kids is so we can imagine sexual encounters.
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
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03-27-2006 12:18
From: Eboni Khan What makes you think they are not a minor? There have always been minors on the grid, with several people of note just turning 18 within the past few months after the teengrid and were never forced over there. There are children on the grid. Are they playing with child avies? We can't be sure, but it is not possible that everyone on the main grid is over 18, it has never been the case in the history of the grid. The only people responsible are their parents. I'm a parent myself and a damn good one, and will learn enough about what my son does that I can ensure his mental health. It's not our fault if most parents can't be arsed to do that. If ya wear a deer costume where people are hunting, you're gonna get shot. If you can't keep your kids out of the costume, YOU should be shot. same principle.
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-27-2006 12:21
From: Corvus Drake The only people responsible are their parents. I'm a parent myself and a damn good one, and will learn enough about what my son does that I can ensure his mental health. It's not our fault if most parents can't be arsed to do that.
If ya wear a deer costume where people are hunting, you're gonna get shot. If you can't keep your kids out of the costume, YOU should be shot. same principle. So, if your parents don't care about you to protect you, it is ok for you to be abused. Nice.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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03-27-2006 12:21
From: bella Ophelia Is Vanity Fair a better source? No. Sensationalism is sensationalism, no matter where it appears. Consenting adults engage in all kinds of rolepay in SL and in RL. Do you assume that all people who engage in infantilism in RL want to have sex with infants? Or that couples who engage in rape fantasies will actually rape someone? I could come up with dozens of other examples but I'll spare you. People roleplay specifically for the opportunity to act out fantasies that they would never actually do in real life. That's the whole point. It matters not if you find those fantasies tasteless, frightening, or bizarre. Undoubtedly there are people who can't separate fantasy from reality but you can't define the majority by the fringes, nor curtail people's freedom based on the worst case scenario.
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
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03-27-2006 12:21
I too call for additional definition. I'd say being a pedophile is exactly that: a state of being. Harmless expression and curiosity between consenting adults, while socially obtuse, is not only legal but healthy.
I'd say this is where "ageplay" needs to be added to the books instead of just "pedophilia", perhaps with an "often mistaken for" line in it.
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Csven Concord
*
Join date: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,015
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03-27-2006 12:22
For someone so concerned about pedophilia, why is a link to someone on this forum who claimed to be a pedophile so difficult to extract?
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bella Ophelia
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 152
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03-27-2006 12:23
From: Corvus Drake I can tell you that in SL, and even other virtual venues, I have participated sexually in things that would disgust me to even consider IRL. I have no desire whatsoever to express them IRL.
But hell, why have morals in SL? My guess is you were fooling around, not obsessing with the behavior.
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bella Ophelia
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 152
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03-27-2006 12:24
From: Csven Concord For someone so concerned about pedophilia, why is a link to someone on this forum who claimed to be a pedophile so difficult to extract? Gee... I don't know... I mean... all pedophiles fess up freely to the charge, right?
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
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03-27-2006 12:25
From: Eboni Khan So, if your parents don't care about you to protect you, it is ok for you to be abused. Nice. Didn't say that. I said that it's the parent's responsibility, and if they shirk it, they should be held accountable if there's anything to be held accountable for. Period. I paid no attention to the affect on a child, but at the same time, there's no way to do so without tapdancing all over many, many other freedoms that we have come to depend on. Yes, child rape is a horrible thing, but you can't choke the innocent to save the victims.
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Csven Concord
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Join date: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,015
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03-27-2006 12:25
From: bella Ophelia Gee... I don't know... I mean... all pedophiles fess up freely to the charge, right? According to your earlier comment this apparently occurred. Remember? [For ref: /108/80/96276/10.html#post957998 ]
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Kokoro Fasching
Pixie Dust and Sugar
Join date: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 949
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03-27-2006 12:25
From: bella Ophelia ped·o·phil·i·a (pd-fl-, pd-) n. The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.
(The Free Dictionary)
The American Psychiatric Association defines Pedophilia:
A pedophile is a person who over at least a 6 month period has recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (age 13 years or younger).
Definition
Pedophilia is a paraphilia that involves an abnormal interest in children. A paraphilia is a disorder that is characterized by recurrent intense sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies generally involving: nonhuman objects; the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner (not merely simulated); or animals, children, or other nonconsenting persons. Pedophilia is also a psychosexual disorder in which the fantasy or actual act of engaging in sexual activity with prepubertal children is the preferred or exclusive means of achieving sexual excitement and gratification. It may be directed toward children of the same sex or children of the other sex. Some pedophiles are attracted to both boys and girls. Some are attracted only to children, while others are attracted to adults as well as to children.
Pedophilia is defined by mental health professionals as a mental disorder, but the American legal system defines acting on a pedophilic urge as a criminal act. (Minddisorder.com)
Definition of Pedophilia
Pedophilia: People with pedophilia have fantasies, urges or behaviors that involve illegal sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).
(Medterms.com)
So by definition, anyone fantasizing about sex with a person 13 or under (child avatars) is a pedophile.
Pretend you are something else but the definitions are the same no matter where you look... Calling it "age play" or not, if it includes sexual fantasy and a child, it is pedophilia. The problem is that no one has defined a way to tell the AGE of a avatar. Until you can tell me how you are going to define the AGE of a avatar, there is no sex or thought of sex with a avatar under the age of 13. My avatar is 1.4 meters tall - that's 4' 6" for the metric impaired. Am I a child avatar.. most certainly not! I'm a pixie darn it, and you humans are just way too tall! Perhaps it would be better just to outlaw all humans in SL, then it wouldn't be a problem at all! Have the Linden's put a AGE function in, then you have have your crusade.
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
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03-27-2006 12:26
From: bella Ophelia My guess is you were fooling around, not obsessing with the behavior. DING DING DING! SO someone can play it all they want and not transfer it to RL? Is that what you're saying? Cuz that sounds a lot liek what you're saying!
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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03-27-2006 12:27
From: Eboni Khan I thought she said being a fury leads to boning people in animal costumes as seen on HBO. Same response. If you're getting your information from HBO, expect people to question it.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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bella Ophelia
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 152
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03-27-2006 12:28
From: Chip Midnight No. Sensationalism is sensationalism, no matter where it appears. Consenting adults engage in all kinds of rolepay in SL and in RL. Do you assume that all people who engage in infantilism in RL want to have sex with infants? Or that couples who engage in rape fantasies will actually rape someone? I could come up with dozens of other examples but I'll spare you. People roleplay specifically for the opportunity to act out fantasies that they would never actually do in real life. That's the whole point. It matters not if you find those fantasies tasteless, frightening, or bizarre. Undoubtedly there are people who can't separate fantasy from reality but you can't define the majority by the fringes, nor curtail people's freedom based on the worst case scenario. Actually, I think that people who do ageplay in RL are probably less likely to be pedophiles than those doing it in SL... the reason being the visual nature of SL and RL... in RL, the person having sex with an adult dressed and acting as a child just looks like an adult behaving like a freak... but in SL, the person pretending to be a child, looks just like a child so in watching an adult avatar anally rape a little boy avatar is more akin to true child rape. I think RL ageplay is completely different than SL ageplay for that reason... put a 45 year old man in a diaper and he's a 45 year old man in a diaper no matter how you look at it.
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Ninja Kawabata
Registered User
Join date: 6 Nov 2005
Posts: 135
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Crazy Stuff
03-27-2006 12:29
If you where a pedo would you want to dress up like a kid so you can talk to another adult who looks like one? I don't think so Pedo's want real kids not adults playing a child. Maybe I am wrong about this but maybe it is wrong to think that every person who uses a kid avitar is a pedo.
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
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03-27-2006 12:30
From: bella Ophelia Actually, I think that people who do ageplay in RL are probably less likely to be pedophiles than those doing it in SL... the reason being the visual nature of SL and RL... in RL, the person having sex with an adult dressed and acting as a child just looks like an adult behaving like a freak... but in SL, the person pretending to be a child, looks just like a child so in watching an adult avatar anally rape a little boy avatar is more akin to true child rape.
I think RL ageplay is completely different than SL ageplay for that reason... put a 45 year old man in a diaper and he's a 45 year old man in a diaper no matter how you look at it. So you're saying that someone who is into fantasizing that they are having sex with a child RL by having someone roleplay it out (part of your definition of pedophilia, remember?) is less likely to take out that fantasy on a child than someone who isolates the fantasy to a harmless venue? You do realize how silly that sounds, right?
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Jeska Linden
Administrator
Join date: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 2,388
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03-27-2006 12:30
This thread has spiraled into several personal attacks and as such is being closed. I will remove the personal attacks and would like to remind everyone that even when discussing passionate issues to please refrain from attacking personally those you do not agree with.
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