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Ban Child Avatars Being Used for Sexual Purposes

bella Ophelia
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 152
03-27-2006 11:08
From: Vivianne Draper
oh.jessh.fucking.cerrist.on.a.pogo.stick


If you truly believe that child avies are the heinous sick evil crime that they are, then your mission is to take your crusade to those that can change it. Don't post here -- bombard Philip Linden with letters! Or Robin. Or someone with a Linden after their name. Write your local police. Call your congressman. Call a congressman or two from California. Tell the local mothers against child porn chapter about the evil that's going on here. I mean shit girl -- if you truly believe this is as evil as what you say it is -- get off your but and do some work.


What makes you think this is the only place I am active on this issue? I am doing all I can to promote this cause and to help laws be written that make virtual child pornography as illegal as real child pornography.

These posts give journalists and lawmakers the ability to quickly get caught up on the debate itself and shows an insight into the problem.

Obviously I will be attacked by paedophiles here who are concerned that my ideas will be taken seriously and someone will make it illegal for them to continue their behaviors but I'm fine with fighting the good fight here and anywhere else I see the need.

Organizations like Perverted Justice already use chat rooms and the like to catch paedophiles engaging in their behaviors and SL is ripe for such action.

What lawmaker out there on either side of the isle will be afraid of making the statement, "I believe that emerging technologies that allow paedophiles to create child avatars to engage in virtual child rape scenerios is a problem that needs to be addressed?"

It's one of those issues that all sane people will support and all sick minds will fight against.

Yes, just like in RL, stopping child sexual abuse is difficult and the laws are hard to enforce because of the nature of the problem. It is always difficult to stop crimes from being committed but that doesn't mean we stop using community standards to write sane laws that are designed to protect the most vulnerable among us.

Yes, there are not supposed to be children in SL, but SL players don't only live in SL, they are in homes were in many cases children reside.
Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
03-27-2006 11:10
From: Magnum Serpentine
So what are the feds going to do... Go to Germany and arrest and drag back here someone who breaks this badily written law?

The Fundamentalist do not realize that you cannot impose stupid laws on an international internet.


Also, the 2003 version says that the image has to be indistinguishable from the image of an actual, Real child. Considering even being in SL means the child is virtual, even a photographic skin of a child would still not violate the law.
Ninja Kawabata
Registered User
Join date: 6 Nov 2005
Posts: 135
porn or not porn
03-27-2006 11:11
I have read what most people have said here and yea Child Porn is bad and having sex with kids is sick but let's look at the fact's of what child porn is. For one you must have a child this can be a photo, drawing, animation. This child must be Nude and engaged in a sexual activity that involves oral, anal or straight sex, or by oneself it can be the child that shows an erect penis or vagina in a way that can be seen as a sexual display. If you check the laws on what is child porn and what is nude art there is a legal distinction.
Now let’s look at a SL Avatar Do they have a penis or vagina? No they don’t so by default you can’t say they are engaged in sexual activity.
The fact’s are there are no real children in SL so no children are being hurt in SL, If you see a display of porn then report it but don’t condone every person that has a small size avatar because in your mind it’s porn if in doubt take a photo and send in a violation report and let Linden Labs decide if a law was broken.
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
03-27-2006 11:11
From: Kris Ritter
Yeah! report it to the police! I'm sure they'll prosecute two consenting adults for their child avatars to the fullest extent of the law. :rolleyes:

Or prosecute you for time wasting. One of the two.

It's amazing how all logic and reason leaves people when they address an emotive issue. And amazing how much they damage their own cause with ridiculous statements about it being child porn or abuse or acts of paedophilia. There are no children involved! Therefore it cannot possibly be either.

You are quite at liberty to think it sick, but don't make it more than that. Hell, it's my own opinion that age play is 'beyond the boundaries'. But they're my own boundaries. If people (and Lindens are people too) don't share your view, that doesn't make them supporters of paedophilia or child porn, for fucks sake.

What the fuck is wrong with you people? I mean really? Do you literally not have that basic level of comprehension that helps you seperate virtual activities between consenting adults on a computer platform and real life crimes?

Frankly, it's reprehensible that you idiots are trivialising the real life issues by even equating the two. Maybe it's not the age players who need help?




Oh yes, I can just see it now, two NYPD police show up in Bonn Germany and arrest someone for violiating United States law.

This is why US law cannot apply to the Internet. Nor any other law for that matter.
Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
03-27-2006 11:12
From: bella Ophelia
Obviously I will be attacked by paedophiles here who are concerned that my ideas will be taken seriously and someone will make it illegal for them to continue their behaviors but I'm fine with fighting the good fight here and anywhere else I see the need.
You're not a very nice person, are you?

You are simply so close-minded that you cannot imagine that someone may find something distasteful themselves, yet not want to see it censored.

So go on and act like the put upon victim here all you like, when you summarily label people of a different viewpoint than you as criminals, you are the attacker and are edging up to fascism.
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Soleil Mirabeau
eh?
Join date: 6 Oct 2005
Posts: 995
03-27-2006 11:12
From: Zoe Llewelyn


As a mother, and as a victim of child sexual abuse, I find all these threads, and all this ego-stroking by a few "outraged" people to be nothing but grotesque parody that belittles and obsures the real vitims in real life. Get a grip and grow up.


I too am a victim (and a mother!) and I don't feel the same way at all.

The WORST thing I've ever seen in SL was a full babys nursery, complete with sex balls, and pictures of a baby av and her "daddy"

I puked in my mouth a little. It was pretty nasty.
Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
03-27-2006 11:13
Bella, you can't police someone's home. You can respond with the police, but you cannot control it. if you do, you violate too many freedoms for your cause.

And yes, even fighting pedophilia has a limit.

It sounds like you're more concerned with children seeing the content. THat's the parent's responsibility and noone else's. If they can't be arsed to be good parents, their kids are gonna be fucked up, it doesn't matter what you do.
Csven Concord
*
Join date: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,015
03-27-2006 11:14
From: bella Ophelia
Obviously I will be attacked by paedophiles here...


I'm sorry. I missed where anyone here claimed to be a paedophile. Can you post a link to the comment where this admission is made? Or are you calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with you on this particular virtual case of adult activity a paedophile?
Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
03-27-2006 11:15
From: Soleil Mirabeau
I too am a victim (and a mother!) and I don't feel the same way at all.

The WORST thing I've ever seen in SL was a full babys nursery, complete with sex balls, and pictures of a baby av and her "daddy"

I puked in my mouth a little. It was pretty nasty.


I'd find that disgusting myself.

But it's not my nursery, and there aren't any real children involved.

So you're free to dislike it, even hate it and hate the person for doing it, but you don't have the right to limit it. Does that make sense?
Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
03-27-2006 11:15
From: Soleil Mirabeau
The WORST thing I've ever seen in SL was a full babys nursery, complete with sex balls, and pictures of a baby av and her "daddy"

I puked in my mouth a little. It was pretty nasty.


Ok. I really did laugh out loud that time.
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bella Ophelia
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 152
03-27-2006 11:16
From: Kiari LeFay
Bella's theory about violence fails to take into account that most shooter games aren't exactly rational, and violence and sex are the most base of human urges, not exactly unrelated. But, of course, if she admits that shooting someone for no reason, or running down a hooker with your fictional car, does not incline someone to do that irl... she'd have to admit that sexual fantasies on a computer screen don't make people do stuff in rl.

Oh, who am I kidding, if she conceeded to the first, she'd probably point at me and scream pediophile (or Man! since she seems to have a hard on hatred for the opposite gender) instead of following the logic through to it's conclusion.



The nature of the crime is different based on the propensity to commit it and the fact that in the case of child sexual abuse, the victim has no way of protecting him/herself. As adults, we have to take special care in protecting children from potential threats.
Soleil Mirabeau
eh?
Join date: 6 Oct 2005
Posts: 995
03-27-2006 11:16
From: Corvus Drake
I'd find that disgusting myself.

But it's not my nursery, and there aren't any real children involved.

So you're free to dislike it, even hate it and hate the person for doing it, but you don't have the right to limit it. Does that make sense?


I never said I wanted to limit it. I just said it was fucking disgusting.

If a guy wants to fuck a baby av, and gets off on it, that's his problem. Do I think he's a fucking freak? Umm, yep. :P
Soleil Mirabeau
eh?
Join date: 6 Oct 2005
Posts: 995
03-27-2006 11:17
From: Kris Ritter
Ok. I really did laugh out loud that time.


Vomit makes me laugh too, especially when it shoots out your nose. Ouch!
Teddy Wishbringer
Snuggly Bear Cub
Join date: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 208
03-27-2006 11:17
I find these age-play threads rather curious that they started on the EXACT SAME day that Cub Conclave (the Babyfur sim) was majorly attacked with a land destroying script that wiped out the island.

Things that make you go Hmmmm..

I find this thread topic rather offensive, and I know I'm opening myself up to potential griefer attacks and public ridicule.. however..

I'm sorry you were abused as a child, but it's equally disgusting to see people like YOU sterotype the age-play community when it's clearly obvious you don't understand it.

I've been in the age-play community for well over 10 years now.. and I can tell you the community as a whole we would be the first in line to deal with and report pedophiles to the authorities. Age-play has NOTHING to do with real children.. PERIOD! Now I can't speak for everyone because you'll find a few bad apples in every community, but everyone that I've ever met has been fanatical about make sure the we don't get thrown into the sterotype you are implying. Any age-play activities that occur between TWO CONSENTING ADULTS is a far cry from what your suggesting, and as I mentioned, I find your comments to be highly insulting and completely misdirected.

Direct your emotional anger at those deserving of it and/or get some councilling.
bella Ophelia
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 152
03-27-2006 11:19
From: Corvus Drake
Bella, you can't police someone's home. You can respond with the police, but you cannot control it. if you do, you violate too many freedoms for your cause.

And yes, even fighting pedophilia has a limit.

It sounds like you're more concerned with children seeing the content. THat's the parent's responsibility and noone else's. If they can't be arsed to be good parents, their kids are gonna be fucked up, it doesn't matter what you do.


So should we take murder, child rape and any other crime off the books that can occur inside someone's home?
Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
03-27-2006 11:19
From: aEoLuS Waves
Well the Lindens can do something about by

a] Acting on abuse reports

b] Not making any private statements in this forum about this.

but because that already happend:

c] Making their official point clear about child porn (in av form practiced by adults) and what they will do about it.



Are you saying United States Law should apply to Germany? Or in a nation where the legal limit for sex is lower???

And the fundamentalist talk about soverign rights. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a laugh
Kiari LeFay
Lemon Flavored Fish Treat
Join date: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 223
03-27-2006 11:23
From: bella Ophelia
The nature of the crime is different based on the propensity to commit it and the fact that in the case of child sexual abuse, the victim has no way of protecting him/herself. As adults, we have to take special care in protecting children from potential threats.


Where are you're statistic to back up that age players are more likely to be pediophiles than shooter players are likely to commit a violent crime?

It has been shown, by Chris's stats possibly in another thread though, that peds are likely to have used online media in some form. But by the same token, just about every single person who has commited a violent crime in today's society has first mowed down someone in game form first. Neither proves that those things -make- you do the RL action.

As for other victims of crime being able to protect themselves: Can I quote that back to you if you ever bring up Rape? Well, she had a chance to DEFEND herself! She shouldn't have worn that short skirt or worn makeup... whee, I'll have fun with that. Yes... the little old Granny that gets mowed down in Turismo... she'd -really- have a chance to protect herself irl, same for the hooker or the mom with the stroller... and gosh, but people on the street that you can blithely shoot down in games... those people would -really- have a chance to defend themselves irl from a semi-automatic. Victims, as defined by the word itself, don't generally have many opportunities to fight back. That's why we call them victims.
bella Ophelia
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 152
03-27-2006 11:24
From: Csven Concord
I'm sorry. I missed where anyone here claimed to be a paedophile. Can you post a link to the comment where this admission is made? Or are you calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with you on this particular virtual case of adult activity a paedophile?


So you think out of maybe a hundred total pages of posts covering a few threads on the topic of banning paedophilia in SL, not a single true paedophile chimed in against me and the other sane people here?

Okay, I'm crazy... there are no paedophiles on the Internet and certainly none in SL... and if there were, they wouldn't try to use veiled attempts at discrediting a person who wants to stop their behavior.
Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
03-27-2006 11:25
From: bella Ophelia
...they would try to use veiled attempts at discrediting a person who wants to stop their behavior.

Just when you think things cannot get any more ironic!
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Noh Rinkitink
Just some Nohbody
Join date: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 572
03-27-2006 11:26
From: Vivianne Draper
We are just a few hundred blokes on a message board. Probably half the people reading and replying on this thread are doing so for the entertainment value alone. The other half disagree with you.


The two groups aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, however.

It's very possible that some of those who vehemently disagree with bella and aEoLuS have come to the conclusion that actually trying to argue with them is one of the more boring ways to bang one's head against a wall, and have decided that if they can't educate, they'll entertain.

The only reason I'm not in the "entertainment" camp is that I'm not very entertaining. :(
Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
03-27-2006 11:28
From: Noh Rinkitink
The two groups aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, however.

It's very possible that some of those who vehemently disagree with bella and aEoLuS have come to the conclusion that actually trying to argue with them is one of the more boring ways to bang one's head against a wall, and have decided that if they can't educate, they'll entertain.

The only reason I'm not in the "entertainment" camp is that I'm not very entertaining. :(


I dunno, you just made me laugh. :D
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Kiari LeFay
Lemon Flavored Fish Treat
Join date: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 223
03-27-2006 11:29
Vivianne... I must confess to you. I am a cranialphile..

That's right.. I like to fuck with people's heads. It's fun, and gets an amusingly rabid response. You can even do it while arguing a point you believe in or through using logic.

Whee! Cranialphiles Unite!
bella Ophelia
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 152
03-27-2006 11:31
From: Corvus Drake
Actualy, if you want to get scientific about it, bella....

Heterosexual males are naturally attracted to their mates based on several criteria (this is across species, not just humanity). The most obvious is physical attraction, but there is a derivative for what physical attraction is.

Because females have a finite amount of eggs, and are unable to breed in many cases at a certain age, older females are naturally found less appealing than younger ones. Also, those that are biologically incapable of breeding due to the immature nature of their bodies are not sexually appealing.

Females in good health, which we recognize by our visual appetites and sense of smell, are part of the appeal. They would also need to be at the peak of their fertility, which is essentially the onset of puberty. This is around the ages of 9-16. Nature doesnt' seem to care as much whether or not the female is physically capable of labor compared to the need to breed.

Our need to breed is what is expressed by what we find sexually desireable. Homosexuality even suggests this as many homosexual relationships have one masculine and one feminine partner, possibly moreso than masc/masc and fem/fem matches.

Thus, men naturally would desire to have sex with people between the ages of 9-16, regardless of social mores, and progressively desire the woman less as she ages into a less fertile state.

So if we're going to get scientific, all men are pedophiles. Women look for similar traits in a mate, primarily strength, cunning, and verility provided by youth, so many women are pedophiles by nature (scientifically), though men hit their natural physical peak at the accepted "adult" age of 18.

i'd gather that when we're talking ageplay, we're often not talking about sex with infants. THAT may be indicative of a problem, if we were, but not doing it on SL doesn't affect the problem, as a virtual fix wouldn't be enough to sate a chemical imbalance. Instead, we're talking about sex with AVkids between just before the onset of puberty (fascination) to slightly into it (sexual exhiliration). People do not survive well bottling desires and as a result the world sucks. Would you rather them not vent those secret things in SL and instead either vent them IRL or develop complexes?


Great argument if it were accurate. However, the writings suggest otherwise:

From http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/baby/fert_text.html

Female: During childhood, a girl's ovaries absorb almost half of the 1,000,000 immature eggs with which she was born. Of the 400,000 eggs present during her first menstrual period, only 300 to 500 of them will develop into mature eggs across her reproductive life span. Her body reabsorbs the rest before they complete development.

Ovulation and menstruation start near the end of puberty, generally when a girl is about twelve-and-a-half, though any age from nine to 18 is normal. Each month during a woman's reproductive years, ten to 20 follicles begin maturing under the influence of hormones. These hormones, which are low during childhood and increase exponentially during the reproductive years, regulate the entire reproductive process.
Male: Both men and women are normally at their peak of fertility in their early to mid-20s.

Female: Though girls menstruate throughout their teens, many women do not regularly ovulate until their mid-20s, when hormone levels become more regular and women begin to ovulate each month.
Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
03-27-2006 11:33
From: bella Ophelia
So should we take murder, child rape and any other crime off the books that can occur inside someone's home?


Not at all. But you can't take actions against what someone does in their home or allows to enter it via the media in an effort to prevent it, or you destroy their personal freedoms in the process (i.e. owning a gun).

I'm not saying the laws should be off the books. I'm saying that all these laws need to be treated equally in regards to freedom in someone's home.
Armandi Goodliffe
Fantasy Mechanic
Join date: 2 Jan 2006
Posts: 144
03-27-2006 11:34
Wooldoor: (as a priest) So, you want to be an alter boy?
Boy: No, I don't. You took me from the playground.
Wooldoor: (as a priest) God took you from the playground! Wheeeee!
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