Suicide Girls Redux

Vincent Vega's co-worker, I thought everyone knew that.

Nope, no clue who that is either sorry.

Lewis

This is connected via degrees:

Tateru Nino was just telling me about Bob Dylan's "Stuck In The Middle With You".

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

And then he pops a cap in the ass of several people Enjoy!

Hums twilight zone theme ..... even spookier Torley, I come from Gerry Rafferty's home town, and my friends uncle attended glasgow school of art, with John Byrne(another Paisley luminary), who used to paint the covers for Stealers Wheel, and Gerry's solo albums.

You're evil. I'm gonna have to fire up Napster now and listen to that

Lewis the odd part is I did not repost that again - I have no idea why it did a second post. However, the two aren't in conflict. Wilder being willing to extend to other groups does not in fact mean that they sought out this group in the first place - just that Wilder would be willing to reach out to other groups as well. Even if they did contact this group first, there is nothing wrong with it. You may not approve of the choice, but LL doesn't run its business processes by you first for approval. I hope they pick a wide variety of communities to work with - porn sites, political sites, 3d graphics communities, ethnic groups, GLBT organizations, religious groups, the entire spectrum of humanity.

That I can agree with... if, of course, a fair representation of society is encouraged into the game, and LL don't concentrate entirely on things concerning sex or sexual preference. I have already suggested NAAFA as a group that might benefit a presence in SL.

Lewis

Really? I thought the last for of defense when there's nothing left to support your point of view was repeatedly failing to address logical points made by people on the other side of the debate? Your inane rantings make sense to very few here, even to people who may agree that giving the last name Suicide was a bad move.

Regards,

-Flip

I have been in SL for over 3 years now, and from the very beginning, the sexual side of SL has never really interested me. Pixel bumping just doesn't do it for me. Most of the sex animations make me laugh because they are either really badly done, or someone looks like they are riding a mechanical bull. I have lived in M sims not because I am into sex, actually it is just because I don't like restrictions, especially on speech. My point in mentioning how much land I own earlier was to illustrate that I am not running into porn everywhere I turn in M sims - I can't remember the last time I saw something pornographic in SL.

M sims do not equate to dens of porn. Do some have adult businesses? Certainly - yet that content is supposed to be contained inside - if it is not, you can report it. If it is inside a private residence or business, it has no effect on you unless you specifically choose to go to that place. The sexual side of SL is pretty easy to avoid - I have been doing so for years without really trying all that hard.

When I went into the animation business, I also made a conscious decision to not focus on the sex industry. I could probably have tripled my sales if I had, but I did so on principle. I have no problem with those who do sell them and respect that, it was just not the kind of business I wanted to own. I may buy a DVD from an adult bookstore, it doesn't mean I want to own one.

For me personally it was not something I wanted to associate with myself. Do I have anything against pornography/sex? Nope. I don't stand in judgement of what other people do as long as it is consentual and not hurting someone. I don't try to apply my sense of morality, preference, or taste to how they should live their life. I just happen not to enjoy cyber sex or the variety of stuff that goes on in SL - it does nothing for me except make me laugh most of the time.

That said, I have no problem with Linden Lab associating with a porn site. Completely odd choice for a company that has tried for a long time to sweep the sexual side of SL under the rug. I also don't have a problem with your not approving of the choice. The only thing I have a problem with is you degrading people from the site and acting like you occupy some higher moral ground and have more value than anyone else in SL.

Your whole "do we want THOSE kind of people in SL" mantra can be applied to a lot of groups, and it is actually just run of the mill prejudice. There are many people I am sure who do not want self-righteous religious people in SL, but like everyone else, they have a right to be here. What they, or you, do not have a right to do is stand in judgement of anyone. You tried to attack Lucifer for saying this since you claimed his name was not Christian - well good luck attacking me with the same arguement. Judge not that ye be not judged.

I never mind a good double entrendre I chose my words carefully.

I do think the name is pretty tasteless, but I can't dictate someone else's sense of taste. In the grand scheme of things, it is a minor issue and LL apparently did not have a problem with the name. The name just seems like a silly affectation anyway. Certainly not something to get all up in arms about.

What is worth standing up against is the idea that these girls, or the patrons of the site, do not belong in SL or have nothing to add to SL because of where they are coming from, and that they are some how the "lowest of the low" of society. That is just patently absurd, and what I have been arguing against.

I've been to a lot of porn sites in my day. Are you saying that I've never been a benefit to the community?

Visiting a porn site has nothing - YES ZERO - to do with how valuable to the SL community you'll be. I'd assert that most of the valuable members of SL's community (yes, valuable in MY opinion) are most likely fairly active porn surfers. Siggy, for one example!

Regards,

-Flip

Cris, carefull.. Enabral will be all over you for this as he was me. IT'S NOT RESPECTFUL.

I've been reading these threads with some interest (which flagged when it became "lookit me! lookit me! I'm a martyr!", but still) and I hope y'all will pardon me interjecting here.

The one problem I've ever really seen with porn (or even simple "erotic imagery", which is what S.G. seems to actually be) is the objectification - the dehumanization - of women. I know that'll get a big and exasperated sigh out of a bunch of you, but I've been given every reason to know that depicting women as desirable objects does have a negative effect on how women are treated overall. I'm not going to go into detail, because I'm not posting this to try and change anyone's mind, just that my view is relevant to my main point.

From what little I know of the S.G. site, the popular portions are the image sequences - the young women showing off their corporeal selves. Ok, I can't throw blame on them for making a living off of acting and looking desirable and sexy. I am sure that's just instinctive for us human women to want to be seen in that light. And I cant toss blame at the men for wanting to look, their instincts driving them just as much.

But it's still treating those young women as objects to be desired. And for that, I was a bit disappointed that LL made any extra efforts for them. Until I realized something that I consider rather neat, and in no small portion, pleasantly ironic.

SL presents these desirable women in a new light. A being to be interacted with, someone to talk to, to build with, share textures wit. It's about as humanizing as you can get without being in the same room with 'em. I think that makes this a very positive move, and I'm far less concerned about the extra effort LL extended to them.

I don't see that as hunting for a silver lining, either. It's part and parcel to the final effect of LL's decision. And, hopefully an example of what an actual 'virtual community" can offer us as a species.

Just my L$6 (at current rate of exchange).

Listen.

I just need to say one thing.

Siggy is my hero. He is everything I wish I could be.

I today induct both Siggy and Moopf into the Order of the Golden siegeBot. The first such inductions in over three months.

These two have shown extraordinary valor in the face of utter stupidity. Bravery in the face of hypocrisy. Profanity in the face of self-righteousness.

Congratulations, gentleman. You win at the forums.

I thought you'd already bowed out of this discussion.

Pffft... you know us women... it's our perrogative to change our minds baby!

Wait. It looks like I already inducted both of them.

Which means I shall have have to award them both the Degree of Doctor of Most Righteous Pwnage, with all the rights and privileges thereto pertaining. You will receive your diplomas later tonight, Gentlemen. With them, only three such doctoral awards have been presented by our hallowed order. We are in your debt, sirs.

I certainly hope this doesn't rescind my previous award !

Nice post Jillian.

Your views are similar to my own. When I made the fist thread I was really looking for opinions as my own feelings were a little mixed. But despite SG's brilliant marketing efforts "It's not porn, it's artistic, creative expression! And if you disagree, you're obviously uncool and repressed and not hip enough to appreciate it!" ... it's still porn, and I'm convinced the porn industry doesn't do much for women in society at all.

Certainly not! The Order grows! I am ever on the watch for Forum Excellence, on the rare chance that new inductees shall be found worthy of joining us.

Wu is right. This is one of the best parts of Jillian's post.

I haven't finished reading this thread, but I think I may see one part of the confusion, so I will stop to explain my reading of things now.

"Q. Is there a deal/agreement/contract between Linden Lab and the Suicide Girls?

A. No

Q. Were the Suicide Girls approached by Linden Lab to join Second Life as a part of a program or promotion?
A. No"

What was apparently meant by this was Wilder approached the Suicide Girls, but it wasn't as a part of a program or promotion. (That is, an official program or promotion, already announced.) Not that they didn't approach them.

Moreover, a SG herself said at one point, I believe, that LL approached them.

I'll remove all this at some point if it turns out on reading further that I have misread the whole deal. Meanwhile, this clears up at least one part of why we are arguing, because people have read this differently.

coco

Interesting you said that. I said the same thing in a post reporting to the Lindens two days ago. Now they probably think we've been talking or something, lol.

coco