Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Geographical Separation of Adult Content
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Bhakta Thor
Escape from RL
Join date: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 291
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03-13-2009 08:01
From: Kalderi Tomsen Just a comment about the GLBT thing being moved wholesale to the "adult" continent. My understanding is that this will absolutely NOT be the case, or at least I haven't someone shred of a hint that it will be the case.
Straight people wandering around, hand-in-hand, talking to each other, or dancing at clubs - not adult.
Straight people having sex in their private homes on a sex bed - not Adult, according to the BLOG post and posts by Lindens here. (Although the published document say it is - that REALLY needs to be cleaned up)
Straight people having sex in a sex club - Adult.
Gay people wandering around, hand-in-hand, talking to each other, or dancing at clubs - not adult.
Gay people having sex in their private homes on a sex bed - not Adult.
Gay people having sex in a sex club - Adult.
So could someone point to where LL have indicated anything other than the above?
. What about me swimming naked on my mature beach front, or having sex in my hot tub by the beach. I sure hope they don't do this. I think having 18+ and hiding my genitals in a PG place is enough. Now, we have to say Adult vs Mature, what kind of dichotomy is that to have to filter thorough. I was just looking at new land...I will wait. BT |
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Rosie Barthelmess
Registered User
Join date: 17 May 2007
Posts: 545
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What will the land swap process be?
03-13-2009 08:02
I must admit I have skipped about 10 pages because the thread exploded when I went to bed.
If this has already been discussed my apologies, but could someone please refer me to where it was?
My question: Since adult businesses will be forced to move to the new, adult continent, are they going to get a m2 - for - m2 exchange of their Mainland in a trade? If a business has 8000m2 on the mainland are they now going to be stuck trying to dump their mainland AND buy themselves a spot on the new continent before savvy scammers buy it all up and sell it at exhorbidant rates because it's considered mandatory?
Is LL going to buy the current mainland parcels back from businesses that are forced to move, at fair market value, and ensure that businesses that are moving get first crack at the land on the new continent?
Not only is regular mainland going to end up flooded (and undervalued) when businesses are forced to/choose to move to the adult continent, but this could cause a pretty substantial financial burden for people who are subject to the new definitions if they are expected to maintain tier levels to double their land holdings while they wait for one to sell or are forced to buy artificially inflated new continent land from people looking to make a quick buck.
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Bhakta Thor
Escape from RL
Join date: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 291
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Very good idea
03-13-2009 08:03
From: Ceera Murakami OK, LL has their blinders on, and their "full-steam-ahead, damn-the-torpedoes!" mentality... They have made up their mind they are going to ram this down our throats...
I will make one constructive suggestion, and I sincerely hope that Linden Lab will LISTEN and take it seriously.
Pick one of the newer continents of Mainland, and before you touch a single prim on any other continent, see if you can, successfully, relocate all the Adult content in that one continent to the new Adult Continent. Offer the option to ALL landowners on that continent to relocate, with LL assistance. Give them a straight land swap offer - 4096 M2 or protected waterfront given up on the old sim gets you 4096 M2 of protected waterfront on the new one, at NO cost for the exchange. DO NOT force them to sell at market prices. DO NOT auction off the Adults-only sims to speculators and force the residents who are moving to buy at insanely inflated prices. Even then, it will be hugely disruptive, since people will have to move their entire builds, and the new land won't have the same terraforming as the old land, and so the build will have to be re-done to fit the new land. it will NOT be painless, but you can at least make it easier...
SHOW US THAT IT CAN WORK. Prove to us, and to yourselves, that it is POSSIBLE to relocate people like you propose.
Then take a good look at what is left fo your former mainland continent. What percentage ACTUALLY moved? What percentage stayed? Can you now successfully rearrange the remaining land in the disrupted area to make it either all PG or all Mature? Would you have been better off allowing the majority to stay, tagging the continent Adult, and relocating the PG people?
You wouldn't do a major change to all your servers at once. You would test it first on a few seervers, and then on a small but larger group of them, and then roll it out to the whole grid. This is a server change. Treat it like one. I hope Linden pays some attention to this. I may as well go to Small Worlds or Sony Home if I want to play a cartoon chld. BT |
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Bhakta Thor
Escape from RL
Join date: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 291
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Adult business only?
03-13-2009 08:04
From: Rosie Barthelmess I must admit I have skipped about 10 pages because the thread exploded when I went to bed.
If this has already been discussed my apologies, but could someone please refer me to where it was?
My question: Since adult businesses will be forced to move to the new, adult continent, are they going to get a m2 - for - m2 exchange of their Mainland in a trade? If a business has 8000m2 on the mainland are they now going to be stuck trying to dump their mainland AND buy themselves a spot on the new continent before savvy scammers buy it all up and sell it at exhorbidant rates because it's considered mandatory?
Is LL going to buy the current mainland parcels back from businesses that are forced to move, at fair market value, and ensure that businesses that are moving get first crack at the land on the new continent?
Not only is regular mainland going to end up flooded (and undervalued) when businesses are forced to/choose to move to the adult continent, but this could cause a pretty substantial financial burden for people who are subject to the new definitions if they are expected to maintain tier levels to double their land holdings while they wait for one to sell or are forced to buy artificially inflated new continent land from people looking to make a quick buck. Can I move my residence to the new adult area? |
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Shockwave Yareach
Registered User
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 370
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03-13-2009 08:06
From: Bhakta Thor I hope Linden pays some attention to this. I may as well go to Small Worlds or Sony Home if I want to play a cartoon chld.
BT Sony's Home costs less too, even when you consider the costs of the hardware to run it. |
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Xal Dryke
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 150
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The big question.
03-13-2009 08:15
The big question that I keep seeing over and over again, and I've yet to see a definitive answer on is how the proposed move would be handled.
If a sex club owner currently owns beachfront property.
Will he/she be guranteed beachfront property again??
Will all land owners be guranteed land identical to what they currently own so that they can just move their builds???
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Jennifer Boyle
Registered User
Join date: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 15
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My $0.02
03-13-2009 08:16
If you feel the need to geographically separate adult content from PG, the people who want the separation should be the ones who bear the burden. Create a new non-adult continent, and let all the puritans move there VOLUNTARILY, instead of disrupting people's lives by forcing them to move to a ghetto.
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spinster Voom
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,069
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03-13-2009 08:23
Wow, what a mess! I step away from my computer for one day and I come back to find The Sky Is Falling!
Here's my thoughts on all of it (and it's all been said many times already on these threads - just adding my voice) ...
There's a whole lot of grey areas regarding definitions. From what I read on the other thread, adult content will be fine in stores as long as there is non-adult content there as well. Adult content will also be allowed inside private houses. I am not sure how this will allow all the rl business and education types to ensure that their customers and students don't accidentally encounter it.
As most have suggested, the most sensible and least traumatic thing would be to make the new continent PG, giving those who are offended by adult content the choice to move somewhere guaranteed safe and fluffy.
Keep the existing mainland as it is, with its rules about adult content being behind closed doors, but provide extra clarification about what "behind closed doors" means and enforce the rules consistently.
No age verification system will actually work to keep minors off the grid, however I do recognise that LL have to be seen to be doing something in order to cover their backs and I appreciate the addition of CC/Paypal as verification methods. As others have said on the verification thread, I'd love to be able to link my NPIOF alt to my Payment Info Used (and hence, verified?) main.
Glancing through these threads, it appears that there is overwhelming objection to the proposed plans and huge support for the idea of a PG continent instead. This time, LL, it really will be embarrassingly and glaringly obvious if you choose not to listen your customers.
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Avion Raymaker
Palacio del Emperador!
Join date: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 980
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03-13-2009 08:40
You've got to be F'ing kidding me.
I spent thousands of US dollars on my land, at 2007 land boom prices, based on its LOCATION and the SURROUNGING COMMUNITY, and the PROTECTED LINDEN OCEAN. I suppose for you Lindens, any land is just pixels on a server somewhere; essentially just a SLURL that earns tier for you that could be shoved anywhere. Well I can tell you where to shove this plan of yours.
The sim in question was built on the principles of freedom of expression and lack of inhibitions, sex and nudity encouraged. Although you won't walk through and blatantly see boobies or hoo-hoos in your face every minute, the intent was that anything goes, with no Puritanical judgments on anyone at any time. That's one reason so many residents seek a refuge there and call it home.
I'm not moving, dammit. You can kiss my ass and kiss my tier goodbye. I only have 1 sim that would be in violation (I think -- could you stop being so vague?), but if forced to move, I'm pulling out everything everywhere.
--Avion
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Bhakta Thor
Escape from RL
Join date: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 291
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Yes!
03-13-2009 08:46
From: Jennifer Boyle If you feel the need to geographically separate adult content from PG, the people who want the separation should be the ones who bear the burden. Create a new non-adult continent, and let all the puritans move there VOLUNTARILY, instead of disrupting people's lives by forcing them to move to a ghetto. Yes! Let them move to Afganistan! BT |
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AnnMarie Otoole
Addicted scripter
Join date: 6 Jan 2007
Posts: 162
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HOW ABOUT ALL ADULT ORIENTED RESTRICTED TO 1000m+ ALTITUDE
03-13-2009 08:58
Very simple. Use existing land anywhere in SL. Any adult oriented objects are located at 1000m altitude minimum. If you don't want to encounter adult content, don't teleport to LMs at 1000m altitude or more and don't fly that high.
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Avion Raymaker
Palacio del Emperador!
Join date: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 980
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03-13-2009 09:02
From: AnnMarie Otoole Very simple. Use existing land anywhere in SL. Any adult oriented objects are located at 1000m altitude minimum. If you don't want to encounter adult content, don't teleport to LMs at 1000m altitude or more and don't fly that high. Thanks for bolstering the Lindens' opinion that all content is just tier-earning junk that could be placed anywhere, that expensive protected oceanfront is meaningless, and basically that location has no value. Sorry, not trying to be rude to you, personally, AnnMarie. But this thing has me steamed. Getting shoved to the sky feels exactly the same to me as getting shoved to the dirty ghetto. --Avion |
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Shockwave Yareach
Registered User
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 370
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03-13-2009 09:03
From: AnnMarie Otoole Very simple. Use existing land anywhere in SL. Any adult oriented objects are located at 1000m altitude minimum. If you don't want to encounter adult content, don't teleport to LMs at 1000m altitude or more and don't fly that high. That wouldn't stop little Johnny from hovering in a rocket to peep in, and get LL sued for not preventing it. Come to think of it, neither will the forced move of the sex shops. Hmmm, maybe the Lindens need to take a harder look at their plans and the consequences they will bring? |
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Garnet Trilling
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 16
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Mainland land owner
03-13-2009 09:07
I have a parcel on the mainland that I do PG public builds on. I will not want to be next to an adult sim. What will be my recourse? This does not seem fair to mainland builders who cannot afford an island. We play buy the rules and pay our fees to!!!!
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Shockwave Yareach
Registered User
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 370
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03-13-2009 09:16
From: Garnet Trilling I have a parcel on the mainland that I do PG public builds on. I will not want to be next to an adult sim. What will be my recourse? This does not seem fair to mainland builders who cannot afford an island. We play buy the rules and pay our fees to!!!! You see Lindens? Even those who don't want adult stuff next to them think your plan sucks! Wow, you've come upon a solution that not even the folks you are doing it for like, infuriates just about everyone, and threatens your very survivability! Kudos, guys. Not even insurance companies have approval ratings this low! |
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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03-13-2009 09:17
From: AnnMarie Otoole Very simple. Use existing land anywhere in SL. Any adult oriented objects are located at 1000m altitude minimum. If you don't want to encounter adult content, don't teleport to LMs at 1000m altitude or more and don't fly that high. But I like living on the ground. Actual ground totally trumps prims. From: Garnet Trilling I have a parcel on the mainland that I do PG public builds on. I will not want to be next to an adult sim. What will be my recourse? This does not seem fair to mainland builders who cannot afford an island. We play buy the rules and pay our fees to!!!! Did you buy land on a mature sim? If so, you bought in the wrong place and should move to a PG sim instead. If you're really worried about what your neighbors are doing, get somewhere that's bordering other PG sims instead of mature ones. |
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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03-13-2009 09:21
Still waiting on links to that research data. Hopefully, the deafening silence means two things: 1) They are madly preparing the research documentation requested in preparation for dissemination, and 2) They are listening and thinking hard about every word we say, so they can make the best and most measured reply possible. (PS-don't yell at me about missing closing tags  ) |
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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03-13-2009 09:32
From: AnnMarie Otoole Very simple. Use existing land anywhere in SL. Any adult oriented objects are located at 1000m altitude minimum. If you don't want to encounter adult content, don't teleport to LMs at 1000m altitude or more and don't fly that high. No, thank you. I like my beach and my Linden water to swim in, and my pretty mountain terrain. And swimming products in SL, even with prim water, work very badly at high altitudes, so replacing my beach with a skybox swimming pool over 1000M up is NOT an option. I like my castle with a stunning view of the ocean, and being able to make love to my SL Partner while watching a killer sunset through my castle's windows. Anywhere over 768 Meters, I can't even ban a griefer BY NAME. No access controls in place today at the parcel level would be able to restrict access to anything over 768 Meters. Good try, but much too simplistic.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Cincia Singh
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 79
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03-13-2009 09:32
Wow. thirty-five pages of "the end is near!" and "I can feel the swoosh of the breeze as the residents all leave SL." They all said the same thing about the OpenSpace issue, "we're leaving and never coming back!" Since I've been in SL I've heard this every time something changes; even about the viewer updates.
It's obvious SLers don't deal with change well. That said, change is coming and all the extreme behavior will go to its own area. There have been a lot of constructive thoughts and ideas, mixed in amongst the wailing and crying about the change, and I look forward to the eventual changes whatever they are because I'm not self-centered enough to think that my paltry tier payment will allow me enough input to over ride what LL obviously has already planned to implement what they see as a necessary change.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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03-13-2009 09:34
From: Garnet Trilling I have a parcel on the mainland that I do PG public builds on. I will not want to be next to an adult sim. The adult sims will ALL be on a new continent. |
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Xal Dryke
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 150
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03-13-2009 09:39
From: Garnet Trilling I have a parcel on the mainland that I do PG public builds on. I will not want to be next to an adult sim. What will be my recourse? This does not seem fair to mainland builders who cannot afford an island. We play buy the rules and pay our fees to!!!! Don't buy next to an adult sim, or don't buy in a currently mature sim. Even if the content of your builds is PG. |
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Avion Raymaker
Palacio del Emperador!
Join date: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 980
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03-13-2009 09:40
From: Cincia Singh Wow. thirty-five pages of "the end is near!" and "I can feel the swoosh of the breeze as the residents all leave SL." They all said the same thing about the OpenSpace issue, "we're leaving and never coming back!" Since I've been in SL I've heard this every time something changes; even about the viewer updates.
It's obvious SLers don't deal with change well. That said, change is coming and all the extreme behavior will go to its own area. There have been a lot of constructive thoughts and ideas, mixed in amongst the wailing and crying about the change, and I look forward to the eventual changes whatever they are because I'm not self-centered enough to think that my paltry tier payment will allow me enough input to over ride what LL obviously has already planned to implement what they see as a necessary change. If your tier is paltry, then you're obviously not having 1000s of US dollars worth of land being confiscated from you. You have no call for acting as the high-and-mighty mature one about something that doesn't affect you or your wallet. --Avion |
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Xal Dryke
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 150
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03-13-2009 09:44
From: AnnMarie Otoole Very simple. Use existing land anywhere in SL. Any adult oriented objects are located at 1000m altitude minimum. If you don't want to encounter adult content, don't teleport to LMs at 1000m altitude or more and don't fly that high. I can see what you are suggesting, and I think it's good that you are offering comprimises, but this can't work because if I am currently paying for premium land, like beachfront or roadside, I'm not going to restrict myself to 1000m+. |
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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03-13-2009 09:45
From: Cincia Singh Wow. thirty-five pages of "the end is near!" and "I can feel the swoosh of the breeze as the residents all leave SL." They all said the same thing about the OpenSpace issue, "we're leaving and never coming back!" Since I've been in SL I've heard this every time something changes; even about the viewer updates.
It's obvious SLers don't deal with change well. That said, change is coming and all the extreme behavior will go to its own area. There have been a lot of constructive thoughts and ideas, mixed in amongst the wailing and crying about the change, and I look forward to the eventual changes whatever they are because I'm not self-centered enough to think that my paltry tier payment will allow me enough input to over ride what LL obviously has already planned to implement what they see as a necessary change. Yes, Cincia...we do have a history of being Chicken Littles. Kind of makes it hard to be believed when the sky really IS falling this time. You mention the OpenSpace issue. If you think that was a tempest in a teapot, think again. Many, many OpenSpace owners took a financial bath. Many sims were abandoned. The grid shrank by about 5,000 sims in a period of about four months! Mainland prices tanked when the OpenSpace product was introduced, and have still not recovered. This latest change is much, much, much more far-reaching. A lot of people have mentioned a "land exchange" as if it were a done deal. Please note that LL has said NOTHING about this. If you read the draft guidelines in the Wiki, the implication is that LANDOWNERS will be responsible for buying Adult parcels, selling their Mature parcels, and relocating. Guess who is going to take a financial bath? Not LL. My guess is that every landowner who wants Adult land is going to have to sell at a huge loss, and buy into a seller's market.
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It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd
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spinster Voom
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,069
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03-13-2009 09:46
From: Argent Stonecutter The adult sims will ALL be on a new continent. Yes, but he still may be next to a Mature region where a store owner can sell sexual and/or violent content as long as they stock other stuff as well (or have I understood it wrong? I must admit it makes NO sense to me). Whereas, if the new continent were PG only he could move there and not have to worry about what's next door. |