Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Geographical Separation of Adult Content

Yep. There are plenty of logistics that need to worked and communicated.

That only 2-4% of the mainland _land mass_ will be directly impacted is something I don't doubt too much, though I'll guess at least twice that much will get hit with fallout - many businesses like to be next to popular places and if LL moves all the ultra popular naughty places off to a new continent, those businesses will have some decisions to make, even if they're not in the 'really adult' category.

What LL is talking about is moving a lot of high-population-density areas that are now well-separated into a single area. A few weeks ago, the performance of my mainland home pretty much tanked (as many others did, which you can read about here in the forums but not in the LL blogs) and it's lag city any time we get more than 10-15 people in the sim at once.

Can you imagine what the lag will be like if they try to shove a big percentage of who's currently on the 5000+ region mainland onto a new and (I assume) far smaller area?

We all see SL thru different eyes, I see it as a blank canvas to create. My question is where do others like me fit into all of this. I am not residential, I use my land to build areas that I hope can be enjoyed by others. Homestead and open spaces do not have enought prims so that is out of the question. What will happen to us creative builders who do not want sex chat or sex activities next to our builds. I am not a prude, to each his own.
But please consider us all.

With exactly the same terraforming? That would be an impossibility, to take random people's parcels and re-create suitable terraforming so their old build fit exactly right on the new land, without butchering the terraforming of the new land around it. There is no automatic magic wand that could accomplish this miracle. At best, the land owner will still have to try to rebuild their stuff on the new land, to fit the terraforming there. Why do people assume that all parcels in SL are flat as a pool table, and virtually interchangable?

And while trying to sell the old land, that no one wants, at trashed prices, the land owner has to pay tier on the old land? No. That would double the M2 that they have to pay tier on. How about LL pays the landowner up-front and buy the land from them, and then offer the closest match available in the new area at the same cost per M2, direct purchase from LL, and silmutaneous transfer of ownership, so ther tier doesn't get doubled?

It would cost the Lindens quite a lot, actually. They would lose the money from the auction sales of the sims to speculators, if nothing else. And tens of thousands of manhours would be needed to pick up resident's builds from the old sims and positing them in any acceptable way in the new sims.

No, we are for fairness.

I am not here for sex, however I refuse to be part of oppresing people that are.

Thanks for posting the names of a couple different porn sites in your post Al. All of us total sexual deviants who get off on every type of porn imagineable will check them out later. Maybe I'll run into a closet with my laptop and view them there so nobody can see how twisted I am.

However, is this issue really about the type of people that are interested in this???

Or is it possible that we have a problem with how this is being implemented???

I'd probably say it's the latter.

so i have read a lot of the posts now, ok not all, as most tell the same.

My suggestion, we all just have "adullt" stuff, so no "non adult2 area is requested anymore. Easy thinking, easy going, as with such a high request of "adult" areas, im sure LL was not calculating.

Second, for LL, hey, you were alble to ruin a lot of nice Open Source Sims, and with the next price risiing, you will loose much more sims. So, don´t bother the ones who have still helped you to get such a high reputation, just, start to think in a smart way, take the servers which are free still, and will be free during middle of the year, found your seperated Kids SL with defentily no adult content, and let the rest of your paying creatives, yes you read correctly, your customers are the creatives from SL, not you Linden Lab, go on with the way they try to manage the lifing on the grid.

And hey, just as someone of your office managers needs a topic to get a right for his job, to upset all your customers??????????????

Sorry, but im very directly, but you are just thinking from 12.00am to noon? makes the impression

Hello Al... I think you're articulating your own lack of imagination or creativity. People have the ability to respond to fantasy. That's what makes a love letter ("not real" just as romantic as a kiss ("real". Or the symbolism of wedding vows ("not real" just as important as what the groom gets on wedding night ("real".

Human beings respond to more than just real-world words and real-world physical acts. We respond to the nonphysical: concepts, art, thoughts, writings... Human imagination and use of symbolism is part of what separates us from the animal horde.

Maybe I'm not the standard case but the area I'm in has evolved over the years and there are 4-5 of us that would want to be moved together. Some of these 4-5 haven't been able to log in for a month+. Some have parts of their build that were done (and still 'owned') by others who have now left SL.

I just can't imagine that moving us would go smoothly.

I don't have anything in any of my builds that would be out of place on a PG sim. That's not the point.

If you have more than a dozen people on your friends list, chances are you personally know at least one person who will have to move, if LL's estimate of the amount of effected content is accurate. Don't you care about your friends?

When I bought my current parcel, I did so after a long search and moved my entire build from one sim to another. I bought where I did because it is bordered on two sides by protected oceanfront. I also intentionally bought on mainland instead of on a private estate because I wanted to make sure I didn't have any restrictions on the use of my land. When I bought the land, I bought it specifically because it was **without any deed restrictions**.

I paid quite a premium for my land. At the time, land prices were much higher and the parcels I assembled were in a premium location. If I were to sell my parcels today, I would likely recover half or less of my investment. That doesn't bother me as much as it should because I am still happy with my current location and have no desire to move.

I run a place that I provide, free of charge and without any commercial content, for my personal use and also for the use of the SL community. It is advertised and open to the public. The build is overall a residential, oceanfront setting... but I do have pornos available for viewing for my guests, and also have a wide variety of activities, including everything from "G" rated, sitting on the beach chatting and watching the dolphins play to XXX rated, including beastiality.

My location is pretty unique and was hard to find. In addition to being bordered on two sides by protected ocean, There is a lovely garden shop on the other side. I know all my neighbors and have very good relationships with them and none have complained about my place. Overall, my parcel and the surrounding ones are quite lovely and aesthetically well designed.

Nonetheless, if I were asked, I would say that my place would clearly be defined as "adult" due to the presence of porno movies, BDSM content, and beastiality (though it's all done in a lovely setting )

I have never received a complaint from a neighbor, and have only gotten thanks from those who enjoy the benefits of my gift to the SL community.

I would be _extremely_ upset if I were to be forced to move. If I were forced to move, I would expect LL to provide me an identical parcel with identically lovely surroundings and also for them to give me an easy way to move my entire build without hassle.

I don't see it. The number of "shared servers" for a grid is relatively small, compared to the servers for the sims themselves. A separate grid for the easily-offended seems like the ideal solution, to me.

"Why not a G-rated continent?
This is not about teenagers in Second Life or the Teen Grid. This is about providing a choice about the kind of experience people want to have in Second Life, which is fundamentally an 18+ service."

Not that this post is likely to be read by anyone who matters in the decision-making process, but, if this is about providing a CHOICE, why are you starting with a FORCED move?

I run a shop that leans toward the adult side, though likely could be considered 'Mature.' My main store exists on a privately owned sim that will likely be flagged as Adult. This does not matter to me. I expect people will adjust quickly to leaving that 'Adult content' box checked all the time, unless they're dealing with corporate clients or whatever. But just because this won't directly affect me doesn't mean that I don't think that it's wrong.

I think this is a BAD move to make. The issue people are upset about isn't who or what will be adult, it's that you're going to FORCE people to move, and no matter how much you "help" them, it IS going to hinder business, and unless you're moving whole sims with all the surrounding sims and parcels, they're not likely to get a fair exchange for what they already have. To some of us, this feels more like you're trying to sterilize SL, and put everyone who doesn't fit into a concentration camp. You're not encouraging choice right now - the choice between moving to your new continent or moving to a private sim is NOT really a choice.

The best way to do this, if it's about choice, is to let people have a choice. Make the new sim PG-rated. Give people who care about not being surrounded by sexual or violent content the CHOICE to move to an area where they won't be disturbed by the content surrounding them. For those who have complained about what they've seen, it would be a perfect option - they can stay where they are if they want, or they can get new land without even a possibility of being surrounded by the smut that they don't want to see. You could even polish it up and call it the 'business district' or something - outside companies would love that. The new land will have much higher value to people who WANT to be there rather than people who are FORCED to be there, and you won't have as much of a drop in land values from the people who stay behind.

And by offering a choice, you'll be showing that you listen to your residents, and you take them into consideration when you make decisions, and not just these squeaky-clean corporate & education clients that you want to impress. We've been here much longer, and we're happy where we are. Please don't force us to take action when there's an option where everyone could wind up happy.

It's not something I think is going to happen either. I think it was JP Linden who quickly dismissed the teen and main grid merging idea. However the only thing that makes me think it's even remotely likely, is fiscal reasons.

Personally, I estimate that less than 5% of my time in SL is involved in any way with sex. Most of my time in-world is spent building, and next after that is socializing and shopping, in that order. In the real world, I'm not in bed with my mate every hour of every day, either. But in either SL or in the real world, if you tell me I can't have a romantic coupling with the partner of my choice, then you steal something very valuable from me.

You don't have to be a sex maniac to enjoy sex on occasion. Or to consider that a valuable aspect of your Second Life experience.

This policy has been stated VERY badly. The Lindens say one thing in one place, and the exact opposite in others. We, as the people it is being imposed on, have to assume the worst case is the truth, because the track history of Linden Lab actions has taken that course far more often than the course of common sense or good customer service.

THAT is why so many of us are upset by this. We've been burned too many times...

I can tell you right now my land will be there till I get over 200k+ from LL, i just put out close to 80k+ more for new lots and I will not take a big lost over my land.

seems LL is spending so much time figuring out how to play morality police that they can't work on issues that really effect peoples SL experience, like not being able to log in.

If it was good research that supported the point Linden Lab wants to make, it would have been linked up front, to establish credibility, deflect potential criticism, and avoid wasting the time of residents and Lindens posting about things clearly answered in the research.

If it is not good research, it will be hidden, with select small pieces cherry-picked and quoted without context or explaination of the method by which the results were obtained.

smile like not able to log in, or like they want the accident TP´s to "adul" sims, hmmm they should more work that the TP in general works again

Same with me, Sindy,

About 3 sims worth of long-term neighbors in SE Nautilus with 2 years' worth of shared walkways, "treaties," negotiated boundaries and parcel trades. 1.5 sims of it are mine, most of that probably violates the new overlords' Nebraska-like values. I can't picture relocating even 1.5 sims to a new smut ghetto. I can go around and clean up everything and make everybody put their pants on, but somehow that makes me feel much cheaper and dirtier than I ever felt as the owner of a sexually-liberated nude beach and resort. By changing my place, OR by moving to the ghetto, I've compromised my principles and given in to the "normals." It's partly a matter of principle, and partly a matter of just being way too tired and frustrated to try to rebuild and re-terraform it all, and continue to pay the Lindens any money after getting shafted.

--Avion

The very last question asked in this Metanomics transcript is revealing.

http://www.metanomics.net/transcript011909

Unless I'm mistaken about LL's intent, this is not about preventing underage avatars from accessing adult material. We should not have to concern ourselves with protecting kids who are cheating the system and shouldn't be here in the first place. (Maybe a better job could be done of keeping them out, but I don't know how.)

Nor is it about preventing adult (18+) avatars from seeing material they intentionally seek out. What happens in the bedroom (or otherwise out of the public view) in SL should be considered private, without regard to the fact that somebody who goes out of his way to move his camera in there can see it.

So what will happen if I leave poseballs out on my mature sim on the Mainland that are sexual? Are just the balls themselves offensive? Or just when people are using them? What about clothing stores that have a portion of their stock that is revealing when worn?

I support the notion that we were here first, and if you want to please those affraid they might be exposed to something offensive to them, they should "move" or be directed if new to SL to a new area. Make a kiddie gehto not an adult one.

I own a Mainland sim, have other Mainland holdings, which result in me spending $270 US a month with you, plus another $100 to $200 US monthly on goods in SL. If you do this... sanatize SL as you are suggesting, I am gone.

Thanks Alisha, and that last bit is a very interesting read.

Once again...

Where is the mailing list? Signup sheet etc to be informed when the ghetto goes live? I'm lucky in that only a part of my gallery and the store of one of my newly starting merchant alts will be affected right now. But like most here I cannot afford to have to deal with landbarons who are grabbing the parcels and then raping us on prices.

Granted, I'm basing my assumption that I'm safer than some to mean that the wording in the definitions will be fixed to allow things such as sales of skin and clothing as long as the pose isn't suggestive, and to mean that residences will not be affected.

But for god sakes, if you're gonna do this the hard way and make the adults move instead building a safe playground for those who want to feel protected then get us a place to sign up for that land. Don't randomly auction or let the landbarons get it. It's already bad enough this idea, and making people compete in a bad environment will only make it worse.

THEN... then after you get the signup sheet for people who want adult land, make sure that those people get to grab land there first and in locations that are comparable to what they are being forced to give up. Only after that initial list of people who have valid reason to buy that land for moving has been exhausted THEN let the rest of the landmass (if any is left) go to auction or landbarons.

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I cannot express enough how much more sense it is to open a G-rated continent and make the prudes move. It'll be able to be better enforced, and be easier all around.

Even a G and a XXX continent, but don't force moves to the XXX land. Let people who want to be able to relocate or startup there do so and leave existing people alone.

This game is for adults, says so in the TOS. So why are we suddenly about to be treated as kids or deviants with no real middle ground?

Completely restructuring the way SL works to go against customer's desires is completely unacceptable. It is coercing current customers to adapt to a new policy regime that has no legal basis (IE, not required by law), and no economic basis. It is grand social engineering with no respect to market or customer demand.

The only viable alternative to the "proposed" (read: mostly decided) policy is to _add_ a new product rather than change old ones. Instead of trying to socially engineer existing creative spaces and content, LL would do much better to leave the existing continents as they are and instead creating a new product to do what they desire. This new product would be a new mainland continent that is mixed PG and MA with no adult content (or perhaps two PG and MA continents with adult forbidden.) In this way, if there is truly a market for such continents, then the demand for such would grow these new continents. This is much more ideal because it has the potential to actually grow the market for land in SL rather than diminish it, as in the "adult continent" policy. Let the market decide what is best for LL; the way to expand general use of SL is to _expand_ products and features, not diminish them.