Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Geographical Separation of Adult Content

Thanks for the memories SL...i'm not one who sells or is involved in the business of any 'extreme sexual or violent content'...but i'm paying almost US$200 monthly plus what i spend helping to keep the SL economy going (a girl's gotta shop, you know?) - I should be able to sit naked on my beach in my photorealistic skin with my purchased genitalia showing...or if i wanted to, have virtual sex in the surf there...now i'm going to be relegated to a 'porn' area if that is what i want to do? Sorry, but you're going to lose my $200 support check! It's a matter of principal...RL zoning in a virtual world???? WTF???

Why not do a log in survey asking if we all want this??? You've set up other silly surveys asking whether my experience has improvied over the past few months - the fact that i say 'no' each time has nothing to do with the sexual content i have found/seen in SL Then when i try to explain 'Why?' - i laugh because that little box will never take my answers! Can't type a word in there...You can't even set up a little survey questionnaire right...but you're going to monitor and address every AR submitted because someone saw a nipple or vulva or penis where they shouldn't have? You're going to force businesses to move?

Seriously, your best bet is to create a G rated continent, their world, their way....or are you afraid no one will go there? Why disrupt the majority through holes in mainland from a forced move? This has to be one of the most ill designed business plans I've heard in quite some time.

Hah, RL zoning in a virtual world - freakin' unbelievable!

i know some people at LL will be disappointed, but i have to tell you, this move wont get you mc donalds into sl

I stopped reading the replies at page 30 but I have absolutely no idea why LL is deciding to take the hardest, least cost effective way of doing this and implementing that instead of going the easier route:

I have no issue with the rating system. I have both mainland and estate land, one of which will have to be marked Adult Content and hopefully the estate owner will want to mark her estate as Adult otherwise, I'll be moving that parcel when this goes forward.

With that said, why in the world is LL NOT doing the following:

1. Move either ALL of the PG or Mature Sims coordinates--whichever is less in numbers to a cluster of their own and ONLY bring new sims into that area with the proper rating. Invisa-line so sim crossings between mature and PG cannot happen (they CAN and DO have the ability to move entire regions/sim coordinates for estate owners who purchase established islands and need to move them to the coordinates that are closer to their own already established islands. They CAN and DO make islands invisable to other islands).

2. Mature regions cannot be accessed by anyone not verified and go a step further with implementing a "you are entering a mature region" notification so there is a warning of some sort for those who are verified. Which is not hard to implement once you hard code it in (and if you can hard code the update yellow box to notify region differences when updates occur, you can hard code this in)

If someone currently has a business in a Mature sim that does not hold mature content and wishes to move, they contact LL directly and land swap at no charge during a grace period similar to the Open Space conversions. Once the grace period to contact has ended....LL pulls on line the new PG sims with direct to sale only to those who requested the swap. They have 30 days to move their belongings during this time they can place a landmark drop stating where they have moved to. After thirty days, LL repossess's the land. No double teirs, plenty of time to move a business and LL then can turn around and sell the repossessed land. No, the land most likely would not be 'like kind and quality' due to only so many spots next to a Linden Road or sim borders, etc. Luck of the draw where you get the new parcels on the new PG sim (s) and terrain may not be the what you had either.


On the other side of the equation...bot accounts will be pretty much wiped clean and will help with some of the lag issues that we all experience and hate because who is going to verify for all those bots? People who do not want to see mature content will not because it will not only be seperated, require LL verification but also have teleport notice upon entering. New clients fresh off of orientation island who did not verify will see only the squeeky clean side of SL.


Yes, it's still a pain...it will still require some to move their land but it will be BY CHOICE. It would be more cost effective for everyone involved. Easier to manage on LL's behalf and not require a whole new criteria to be established.

Good idea, swap out the PG areas to one continent, Create a new continent thats Adult rated if you must, and then give us a preferences choice called *My Maturity Level* which can be PG, Mature, or Adult which controls where you can TP to based on region setting.

Let the adult level only be settable if your account has been verified, but for god's sake,
dont *FORCE* people to move if they dont want to.

That brigs up an interesting point. What will happen when you have several heavily populated areas in the same sim?

"welcome to the lag/no-tp continent!"

Even i don't think that actual plan of LL is the best solution i think is not constructive calling people names, and is quite stupid and possibly evil to compare this with the jewish holocaust.

Let's be constructive and let's give ideas, please.

Keep your eye on the ball, folks... It's all about the money. Mitch Kapor, the VC's, and the top lindens can't cash out. They want to move on to other things but they have millions tied up in LL and SL. They can't cash out until they do an IPO and go public to sell stock. Their LL and SL holdings are basically worthless until they do that. And they can't market SL to Wall Street with all this evil "sex" going on inworld. They need to purge SL of all sexually oriented content so they can do that. Sex Biz's will be first... and then they will go after individual land owners... It's a win-win from their perspective. They get to sell a bunch of new mainland on the new 'Adult' continent. And collect double tier fees while this 'transition' occurs. So, this is all about the money. Not about some people being offended by sexual content.

Which is what makes the following comment from Jeksa so ironic.



Clearly Jeska has never been inworld and tried teleporting at busy times or into/out of busy sims!

Matthew

when you checked "2-4%"....was that of ACTIVE use land? or all land? ACTIVE people, or people that are gone?

On my sim, there is myself (who owns 66%), and 1 bdsm club ((7744sqm). There is one 4096 plot, that the person no longer shows in search. One 512, that the person rarely shows up, and that's to build (he owns a plot on the next sim, that is his "main". One 2240, that has a traffic of 1. And two parcels total 5608, with a traffic of 2. The rest of the spots are adfarms. or abandoned.

So, really active, there's 2 here. both "adult". With all of the "people" on here...are we the 2% of the active spots on the sim?

Also before making that determination...check to make sure people are still in the system! or that the land isn't abandoned...i bet that would bring the numbers WAY up.

Just a comment about the GLBT thing being moved wholesale to the "adult" continent. My understanding is that this will absolutely NOT be the case, or at least I haven't someone shred of a hint that it will be the case.

Straight people wandering around, hand-in-hand, talking to each other, or dancing at clubs - not adult.

Straight people having sex in their private homes on a sex bed - not Adult, according to the BLOG post and posts by Lindens here. (Although the published document say it is - that REALLY needs to be cleaned up)

Straight people having sex in a sex club - Adult.

Gay people wandering around, hand-in-hand, talking to each other, or dancing at clubs - not adult.

Gay people having sex in their private homes on a sex bed - not Adult.

Gay people having sex in a sex club - Adult.

So could someone point to where LL have indicated anything other than the above?

To me it sounds like LL have made up their minds that they are going to do this. To me the important part is for people to get clarification on the HOWs (like the important Adult definitions and how LL are going to make sure that this move happens without impacting the Adult businesses) and then, based on those answers, decide whether or not to stay in SL. I would really, really like to focus on that and we need answers from some Lindens, backed up my additions to the published policies, that reflect that.

Bah, I said it before in the other thread:

/352/b6/311514/10.html#post2353074

But I'll say it again just to make sure LL hears me. No! This is a terrible idea! Really!

We don't need this and the excellent point has already been made hundreds of times. The main grid is a 18+ grid and we already have a teen grid for adults who prefer non-adult content. Really, don't do this! You'll be not only shooting yourself in the foot, but blowing off a whole leg!!

Soooo.... If someone was to buy my 'fu*king machine', dungeon items and sex coffin do they need to have their home on a mature parcel or in the new ghetto?

I am technically age verified. Yet parcels have booted me saying "Get age verified"... and hwen I go to verify age, I'm told, "You are already age verified."

SO unless you get that peice working, it's all going to fall apart.

I see two possible scenarios in all this.

Scenario A. Linden Lab really means what they’ve said here. This is about “hard core businesses” only, and what people do in the privacy of their own homes is fine.

LL is forgetting something important here. THERE IS NO PRIVACY IN SL. Here’s what will happen:

Sex clubs go underground. No more neon signs or pictures of nude women on the outside. By exterior appearance, they become large residential buildings. But you will still be able to find them in a mature Search. You’ll have to join the club’s group to get access to the parcel, but neighbors will still be able to cam in and be offended by what’s going on inside. They will still be offended by chat and/or shouts leaking onto their parcel.

The offended parties will complain to LL. “There’s been no change. There’s still that nasty sex going on next door.”

There will be a Round Two. Either certain types of content and conduct will be banned (and we are back again to the unanswerable question of “what constitutes offensive?”), or people wishing to pursue these activities in their own homes will be transferred to the Adult Continent. In which case, there will be a lot MORE land up for sale, at a lot lower prices. In either case, SL will lose a lot more people.

Scenario B. Linden Lab really means what they’ve meant all along, as shown by their treatment of child skins that didn’t have underwear painted on, and as shown by the guidelines as they are currently written. All “explicit” sex and violence is prohibited in PG and Mature areas. Businesses, private residences, everything. MLP beds, kiss poseballs, scripted hot tubs, prim genitals. Cuddle rugs. All of it is, or can be made to be, “explicit”. Guns, scripted swords, armed aircraft. All of that is “offensive” to someone.

Result: We get to Round Two, but in one step instead of a prolonged agony. Anything fun that is the least bit sexual or violent is moved to the Adult Continent. Everything on the existing mainland becomes, in effect, PG. How many people are willing to live on a PG sim? Not very many, if you judge by the number of PG sims vs. Mature sims. PG land is less valuable, as reflected in sales prices.

We get to the same end result by either road, and that result dismays me. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, since this new policy is coming from the same crew that so mishandled the world, first by introducing, then by taking away, OpenSpace sims. That set of brilliant moves reduced the size of the world by about 5,000 sims in four months. This time they have really done it at last. We survived the gambling ban. We survived the OpenSpace fiasco. We won’t survive this one.

well said
i love where i am now and in no way to i want our lands to be less valued and do I want to move.

i think actually the most active place is the welcome area, seems to always be a million people there... but they are usually talking in voice about "ADULT" things, SL is adult.. i've done my own research over the coarse of today, talked to alot of SL land owners, mainland, estate, everything, most of them dont even know this is happening but when they read up they are all instantly saying the same thing "I... AM... LEAVING... SL" i think that what we will see is the death of second life once freedom is removed from it, even if freedom remains the fact that sim owners will have to pack up and move has pretty much all the people i've talked to on edge, big sim owners to the guy next door that owns a small sim and sells house builds, everyone i have talked to has said this is not a good idea. i agree with the verification system, i have been on sence way back when you were only aloud one acount per credit card, and when that was removed we instantly got a ton of noobs and greifers, that chased alot of SL off, maybe those people will come back now that SL adult content will be free of 13 year olds in every free thing they can get...

what gets me is the forced move. i live on estate land which ill most likely change to adult so i wont have to worry, but as always i worry about others having to abandon or sell their existing parcel at a lower rate to get a new adult sim at a most likely higher rate, to settle this thread i think that an official linden poster needs to detail the move process out, or atleast give us ideas of what it will be like.. at the moment this thing is like the 2012 doomsday news, nobody knows what will happen and alot of us are on edge about it, so please linden.. i'm not one to bash you because i know that SL in itself is a very hard thing to mantain, and i respect you as artists and programmers, but i think the general SL public, as well as the adult SL portion need to be filled in on how this move will take place and how much it will cost in the end

so please, give us something.. how will this move effect builds? how will it effect traffic, notecards, landmarks.. please let us know...

[sorry about my horrid spelling and grammar ]

In the definitions thread, they have stated what is classed as adult theme, and it is quite broad from the "extreme" misconception that is being conveyed.

And the moment the German govt. says they are bringing you to court because underaged kids can still see various things, and you've not done enough to protect underaged users, your percentage will shoot up to 98%. This is merely stage one, where yes, your 5% figure is accurate.

Tomorrow, ALL of us will have to walk the trail of tears to Jizztown, all because YOU were too shortsighted to put the new unverifieds, youths and proper businesses in a brand new G rated continent. You only get one shot to do this. Do it wrong (as you are doing) and you leave the lab open to suits from every AG and fearless leader in the world in the future. And you know perfectly well, they WILL come for you, as they have in the past.

But if you put all the new unverifieds and teens in the new continent and restrict it to a G rating, a place where businesses can safely operate as well, why, then nobody can sue you for anything. Now can they?

Leave your loyal invested customers alone and provide Disneyland for those that WANT that.
No matter what the rules are supposed to mean, there will always be overzelous enforcement people that think the rules are just what they want them to mean.

problem with that is i think,, IBM and CNN are on the mainland, which are alot richer than you, there are also schools and other stuff like that on the mainland.. which i understand if they need to get the smut out of.. but they need to detail how this "march" will take place.. i ask again... "will they have to sell and buy!? or will they be teliported to a duplicate landmass with their build already there?" i wish linden would just give us info on this...

Oh sorry I realise I posted this in the wrong thread, so apologises for posting it here too.

Hey you have two grids already, why not rename Teen Grid to "Teens, Schools, Universities, Conference Organizers and Real World Business Grid" Job done.

This sudden interest in sorting out "mature" versus PG content seems aimed toward collecting age verification data in a more comprehensive way. Must every avatar be connected to an RL driver's license or passport .... ?

I wonder how forcefully Linden Labs will protect the confidentiality of personal data it collects from us -- particularly in the light of recent government pressure on ... for example, librarians, to reveal the book-borrowing histories of library visitors.

Yes, but remember - if your parents did not decide sex was just as important as the 'higher learnings', you would not be here to complain.

And the Buddha never said that sex was bad, or wrong - in fact, having sex in SL is closer to Buddha's goals that having it IRL.

"The Buddha in everything he said about sex implies... The activity of sex will never ultimately satisfy the desire for sex."

Solution one: Continue with your relocation of current customers.

Results:
The sex businesses and sellers of naughty stuff will be safely out of sight. Meanwhile, all the sexbeds and ballpits and pictures in our homes, they will remain.

What will happen is some parent will walk in on their teen as the teen is camming into somoene's private home in the mainland and watching two adults knocking boots together. And voom, you are being sued by the parent, the Atty General, by the govt. of Germany, etc... because "LL is not doing enough to protect underaged users from seeing sexual activity."

Then you will have to ban ALL bed, all naughty drawings and all bits, even in the privacy of our own homes. Again, some percentage will quit. This time though it is believable to say that the number will be 50% or greater, not simply because VR sex is that important to them, but because you sold the game as being for adults then changed the rules on them. Your business will collapse as people cancel and leave. But hey, the German govt. will be satisfied, at least. And IBM will purchase your rubble for 3c on the dollar, if you are lucky.

Not a pretty picture, is it?

Solution two: Make the new continent squeaky clean for biz and newcomers.

Results: Items marked as Mature cannot enter. No dong or lovenest can be rezzed in this place. All new residents come here and stay here until they age verify or payment verify. People from the existant mainland can come to the clean lands to shop at the businesses or visit, but residents wanting to leave the G continent must age verify or be unable to teleport to the rest of the grid.

Nobody can rez or see anything even slightly risque. Nobody can cam to watch two avatars having sex. There is nothing for anyone to sue you over, period.

Second life continues on with happy users, both old and new, and a growing business class on the new continent that enjoys its safe and clean operating area. Nobody quits, more people join as the image is improved, and Mitch gets a new Porsche.

Far prettier picture.


So okay Lindens, there is it is black and white. You have two ways to do this - move us or place newbies in the clean zone till they give proof they can be let out. One will bring disaster! One will bring growth.

Which are you going to tell your current investors you are going to pursue?

Which are WE going to tell your current investors that you are pursuing?

OK, LL has their blinders on, and their "full-steam-ahead, damn-the-torpedoes!" mentality... They have made up their mind they are going to ram this down our throats...

I will make one constructive suggestion, and I sincerely hope that Linden Lab will LISTEN and take it seriously.

Pick one of the smaller, newer continents of Mainland, and before you touch a single prim on any other continent, see if you can, successfully, relocate all the Adult content in that one continent to the new Adult Continent. Offer the option to ALL landowners on that continent to relocate, with LL assistance. Give them a straight land swap offer - 4096 M2 of protected waterfront given up on the old sim gets you 4096 M2 of protected waterfront on the new one, at NO cost for the exchange. DO NOT force them to sell at market prices. DO NOT auction off the Adults-only sims to speculators and force the residents who are moving to buy at insanely inflated prices. Even then, it will be hugely disruptive, since people will have to move their entire builds, and the new land won't have the same terraforming as the old land, and so the build will have to be re-done to fit the new land. it will NOT be painless, but you can at least make it easier...

SHOW US THAT IT CAN WORK. Prove to us, and to yourselves, that it is POSSIBLE to relocate people like you propose.

Then take a good look at what is left on your former mainland continent. What percentage ACTUALLY moved? What percentage stayed? Can you now successfully rearrange the remaining land in the disrupted area to make it either all PG or all Mature? Would you have been better off allowing the majority to stay, tagging the continent Adult, and relocating the PG people?

You wouldn't do a major change to all your servers at once. You would test it first on a few seervers, and then on a small but larger group of them, and then roll it out to the whole grid. This is a server change. Treat it like one.