Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Geographical Separation of Adult Content

I was shooting for nazis, but I'll take Chinese communists.

i was gonna say sesemi street... i dont know why but it's the first thing that came to mind o.o

I hope your aim is good

I can't imagine how anyone could seriously answer this question without knowing the exact criteria.

I have still yet to hear how LL plans to move people. We spend money on land in Sl...good money for desired land. Now they are gonna tell us we have to move to be adults and what..drop us off in crap land? Do they plan to move us one day and magically our builds, home points, etc are all moved over. Are they gonna charge us double tier while we move into our new homes shaped different from what they are now? What about those of us that don't want to stay mature are we going to be allowed the same free move as well? I honestly do NOT want to be in a mature land that is limited. I bought mature cause it was the free for all it is....I can be me....now I am worried. Sorry LL not trusting words going with CMA (covering my ***).

OK I have no doubt that I will have to move one of my stores.

Now what I want to hear are what ideas Linden Lab have for how the move itself will be handled? Basically your saying that you want to make this a painless as possible for the adult merchant. So how do you (Linden Lab) think this can be accomplished?

I can't help but envision a Bay City like land grab by land speculators who know we have no choice but to buy the land if we wish to stay in business.

(random thought) If we will be required to buy the land in the adult sims, maybe make the new land tier free for a month or two to allow us time to sell the old land and not be forced to either dump the land to the landbots or jump up to the next level of tier payments.

Without being and using adult content - as a metaphore -, not a single human being would exist. Even no human being who would be able to restrict, to disallow, or to ban or to ghettoize adult content. This puritanic thing is all not normal or natural. We all are not created PG-rated, we all are not born PG-rated and we will not die PG-rated. I thought, that latest since 1968s freedom movements around the sacular western world, all these discussions and totaly paradox philistine thing would be over and an easy going bohemian life would be established. Then came the puritanicaly moved correctness thing, wich obviously means that any nature is not correct... and whole nations going hysteria, by seeing: skin - or - only a small part of skin..."Nipplegate"... Me as an European can only shaking my head about this.

And now it reached second life.

Ok. Make what you want, Lab.

But I still do know exact how people looking under their clothes and what happens there all day long. I really know it. About each and everyone. Not to mention the bunch of fantasies each and everyone has along every single day in their lifes at day and night.

We are all naked! Even with clothes on. The most intimate bodypart is: our face! Because it: speaks! Verbal and non-verbal. And we are all not holy ascetics. Even not those begoted people, who pretend to be holy or "supa-correct and totaly asexual".

By the way: in the high times of Athens and Alexandria, it was normal that ascetics moved away from the metropole, into desert, to live lonely and not touched by anything there. There was no way to force a majority of people to leave the city or the state, instead of the ascetics. The metropole moved NOT away from the ascetics.

So: if one likes to exist as an ascetic, even in sl, he or she can move elsewhere. We will stay! There are chips and harddisks enough on earth, where LL can settle the ascetics on and where they can meditate in peace about our "sins", or doing their bread-dry grey biz, if that makes them happy.

This is not the problem of the normal and natural people, when a minority of ascetics are hyperventilating if they see some nature. Especially not in an 18+ environment. Especially not, if all what could be seen there is just a: cartoon.

This in general.

Now specified: why ask us? Ask them and give them what they want and what they want to pay for. Give them a university grid and a ascetics grid and a puritanics grid and let them flag themselfs as ascetics and refugees from the bohemian world and do not disturb our good time wich we want to have here and for wich we pay for.

Thanks.

Could you reveal the methodology of the research that Linden Lab conducted? I mean, wouldn't that help us form an opinion about the 2% - 4% estimate, if we knew how you came up with it?

Anyone claiming that this will apply to private land is wrong. That kind of comment will surely help nothing.

People making analogies to the forcing of minorities into ghettos are similarly unhelpful as well as being in bad taste.

This is a simple matter of zoning - indeed expanding the existing zoning system which we already abide by.

Complaining doesn't help. Pointing out practical problems and solutions does.

Right now "Adult" content is pretty much sexual in nature, but it can easily become a codeword for anything someone finds offensive or objectionable. The atmosphere that allows the sexual content of all kinds is also one that allows the creative edginess of a lot of SL content that is not overtly sexual in nature. Once the sex has been isolated, the busybodies just find another thing they don't like,be it something religious, or social or political in nature, decide that is can be shoehorned into a category, and hidden away somewhere. Eventually SL becomes the sanitized, whitebread place that it is envisioned to eventually be by it's current operators. It becomes RL v2, bland , boring and inconsequential.

People are already abiding by the existing sytem, they have mature businesses in mature areas. Now they are being told they will have to pack up and move. LL is changing the rules and targeting a small , particular segment of the population. In a year, who says the rules don't change again, and thoes people are told to pack up again, this time to leave SL entirely?

<3 Brenda

Except the FAQ in the knowledgebase specifies that Adult content and activities MUST be flagged and are subject to these rules, even in private circumstances.



One might consider it hyperbole, until one has experienced the hyperbole becoming realized firsthand via the actions of the Linden Governance Team. If it is in bad taste to ponder "what ifs" based on such first-hand Linden misadventures, then I guess I will have to live with bad taste as a default.



What is the need? We keep asking where the problem is, and we're getting nothing in response. We ALREADY have PG/Mature classifications. "Adult" is nothing more than "Mature". There's yet to be any justification for creating a third stratification in the ratings system. If you move all the hard-core (soft-core, too) sex and violence into another tier, what is left that makes a distinction between PG and Mature?

It would be fine if they presented a problem set that needed to be solved to us and asked us for input on how to solve it. However, so far, this is becoming more and more a solution in search of a problem.



Umm.. you realize that the vast majority of what complaining is about is to point out practical problems and (optionally; it's not a requirement) offer solutions, right?

Ha ha...and I was thinking of the Japanese-Americans!

I sense that this will truly be a huge headache for me. I rent land on a mature mainland sim and even though my store is up 2000m and all ground level signs are non-graphic my products are explicit and my vendors HAVE to show explicit pictures. I rent land because it's extremely cost effective compared to renting in a mall or buying land. I just don't see how I'm going to move and find a place to rent for the same amount of money on an adult mainland sim. I can see a silver lining in that I can probably move the store to ground level and get more traffic but wow... .this is going to be a pain... I'm sure I"m not the only store owner who rents.

I've heard in previous posts that it is allowed to have a sexbed on a private home location on the mature mainland that is not on the adult continent. Let's say I would invite someone over that is not age verified and had sex with that person. Then what would that be illegal?

And what if I was renting land from a landlord on mainland (not on the adult continent) and I would want to have a sexbed. Then I could not buy one because I can't go to a store that sells them because they're all (or should be) on the adult continent. Although There is a freebie sexbed out there from which I'm totally sure it will still be avaible at many places

I assume the second example is not allowed because i could theoreticly not adult, but would the first example make me a possible pedophile because there is a slight possiblity this person is not an adult? (having sex with a person that is not age verified/no payment info)

Bye bye

Seal

Another question that comes to mind is. What happens when the land they have set out to hold that magic number of a maximum of 4% of displaced entities fills up? Will they make new land available? Or will that be the end of any new adult themed entities?

It will be like season tickets to the New York Giants. You will go on the waiting list, or maybe if someone leaves SL you can buy their Smut Permit from them.

@Seal: you could always buy a bed from Xstreetsl and it will be delivered to you inworld at your private land... although I suppose you need age verification for that too lol

@Dagny: if they fill the continent they would print new land I am sure.

The only way the LL-proposed system could work is for SL to switch to there.com style "reviewed content only." for *every* interaction between a G-rated person and anyone else. Then... items, skins, clothes, etc would have to be individually reviewed and stamped as "G-rated" with a special database flag on the UUID, and a whole new slew of arcane permissions restrictions to make sure no non-G-rated materials could be accidentally combined with G-rated materials.

Only G-rated items/skins/etc would be allowed on G-rated regions. What does this plan do to address offensive names of groups being spammed to everyone's UUID keys? Nothing.

Even with a separate continent for the wilting flowers of the world, offensive content can and will migrate back into G-rated-land through simple item gives. Or, Group Join requests with inappropriate group names, etc. So, G-rated land will also have to have flags and code to prevent anything OTHER than G-rated content from even existing there.

This whole discussion shows the epic fail of the current PG and Mature ratings, since the "PG" welcome areas can be far more disturbing than so-called "Extreme" places. Plan on putting SLvoice on a seven-second delay and censoring all those potty-mouths in the welcome areas?

We all know that there will not be an exemption for adult content "behind closed doors" because there ARE NO DOORS when cameras can go through anything. And when an over-zealous Linden decides to let GodMode go their head, abuses of power will clobber people again and again while the LL-ignore-the-problem machine grinds on.

The only real plan here is to acknowledge the existing grid right now 100% "suspect content" and should be labeled "Adult" *** by default ***, purely for liability reasons. If its not, and someone gets offended, LL becomes liable.

LL could label all existing regions as "Adult under proven otherwise" under their New World Order. Then, mark them back as "PG" or "Mature" once they have been fumigated of any possibly undesirable people or content. Yeah, that will work given the people requirements that level of gridscraping will require.

Gee, wouldn't it be simpler to have a grid for kids, and maybe a grid for businesses? Oh wait... they all didn't want to be ghettoized away from all those crazy creative people interacting and otherwise frolicing on the main grid making gobs of content.

Freedom of expression was the SecondLife promise.
Repeat it with me: Your World. Your Imagination. Says so right on the front page.
The proposed "adult" caste system/class system/discrimination/ghettoizing/segregation eliminates both halves of THAT promise.
Leave our world alone and leave it to our imagination how to use it.

And, if you are not 18 years old, sorry, you aren't an "adult" in many jurisdictions, and your parents need to either do their jobs at home or shut up and accept that you are going to see adult content and situations.

Why does LL's whole sorry proposal remind me of tx Oh's "Jesus Got Banned" ?
Oh yeah, because the Bible itself is full of violence, sex (what DOES begat mean, again?), incest (Noah's son saw what?), masturbation (Onan?), rape (what happened to Lot's daughters?), and I think I heard about a hooker starring in the New Testament. All of that is broadly offensive, especially to worshippers of Almight Atheismo. Get that dirty, filthy Bible off the mainland and into those Adult ghettos where it belongs.

Once There Was A World

Once there was a world. The gods made it, and they said, "come see".
The people came, and the gods said, "make of it what you will". And the people did.
They made the world in their image, like a new baby.
Alive.
Full of potential.
Squirming in their arms.
The world, like a new baby, was sometimes adorable, and the people smiled and laughed.
Sometimes it was difficult
Sometimes it made messes.
Some parts of it were not perfect.
And some of the people said, "This world should be perfect".
And the gods listened.
They took away the baby's anus, so it would not make messes.
They smoothed out the wrinkles
Removed the little blemishes
They made it stop squirming and crying, so it would not be difficult.
And when they were through, the people said,
"This is beautiful. But it is a doll. It isn't full of life any more."
And it was true.
The world sat there, perfect and unchanging. Beautiful and empty.
And the people put the lifeless doll on the shelf
And went off to play.

Wrong. The KB articles says it will:
"What are "Adult" Regions, Groups, Events and Classifieds?
Any publicly accessible Region must be designated "Adult" and therefore require Adult validation if it advertises, makes available, references, or displays..."

If you can teleport to it, pick it off the map, view it in search on the web, its "public."



From Wikipedia: A ghetto is described as a "portion of a city in which members of a minority group live especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure."

So, what do you call it, then? How about "The Adult Content Reservation".
Ooops ... the whole concept of being force marched at under duress and without representation (i.e. gunpoint) onto reservations with substandard (or non-existent) housing, schools, and services is one that many Native Americans find objectionable.

A minority is being force marched onto a reservation, at gunpoint, metaphorically speaking is exactly what's happening, and THAT is what I find in bad taste.

And we might as well all go ahead and acknowledge the fact that adult sim owners will receive substandard service and support once they are *ghettoized*. Sim owners of PG and mature sims already complain about bad service they receive. Imagine how much worse it will be for one of those Evil Adult Sim owners when they call for help.



So, if we already abide by it, why would a new classification be necessary?
Your statement contradicts your own other points made elsewhere.

Regardless, you are wrong again. Zoning doesn't stop offensive group spam to wilting lillies. So... I guess we need controls there. Or item gives. More controls there. Or anatomically correct skins under cloths. Better fix those too, "just in case". Are we free-falling down the slippery slope yet?



I am not complaining. I am **objecting**, and pointing up reasons why.
If you think you can "solve" a human-nature problem with a technical controls, guess again. Has prostitution been stopped? Drug abuse? Virus and other malicious code writers? No.

My problem is that this proposal from LL creates infinitely larger numbers of fallout problems, and has zero chance of actually solving the alleged problem it sets out to. The solution is to stop wasting time and effort on this, and fix the 10,000 other JIRA issues out there instead.

This post regards borderline and partially adult cases.

I have a very small number of displays in my store (on a mature content flagged parcel in mainland) that feature veiled female nipples seen through semi-transparent material, or basic frontal (mostly torso) nudity, while the vast majority of my displays are perfectly innocent. I know of many stores like this that don't really feature sex products, but they may still have some "mature", R-rated displays. Will a store owner in this position be forced to choose between either revamping those displays, or moving to the adult continent?

It seems the choice is between revamping displays, or moving and losing sales due to the entire store - most of which is perfectly innocent product - being relisted in search as "Adult". If non-adult product is recategorized because of store association, what other effect could that possibly have on traffic, sales, and search presence?

What of mainland stores that go a slight step further, and have a small adult section, which is clearly marked and delineated as a separate room, but which still feature 90% regular products?

*** Edited to further clarify I'm talking about mainland.

Maybe I am just a poor n00b here.

Only a couple things even seem reasonable to me about this discussion.

Firstly there is already a setting for all land owners to mark the land as "Mature" on "Mature" sims, and can restrict access to only those that have age verified accounts.

It would be a simple matter of enforcing that.

Secondly, isn't there already a PG only version of Secondlife, a Teen Grid?

If adults do not want to wander into sex stores, or malls, or clubs, I would suggest they take responsibility and not wander into "Mature" Sims.

If there realllllly must be more seperation, then make a new continent as PG only. Those who never want to see adult content will stay there. Those that want to age verify and see adult things, will join the rest of us.

Is it possible for LL to go around and tag as much content as possible as Adult now? Perhaps report back here on the simname and x,y coordinates of places you believe are Adult. We would obviously understand that you can't list all possible places and that the list would be a subset of the places forced to move.

Some very real examples along with the reason behind their eviction would be very helpful for us to understand the policy and would give people lots of time to prepare for whatever the future holds, presumably shutting down their businesses and abandoning SL I suppose.