Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Geographical Separation of Adult Content

You do realize that they are working out NEW definitions so the URL's you keep posting will be updated with what is being hashed out in these threads. Posting old information asking them to clarify it is counter-productive to what is being done.

i think we should create new area setting for children + teens - separated from Mainland area meaning AO and mature - such a U rated means no porn or etc family friendly sims its would be good idea

eg: new Mainland for U only means everyone can welocme but AO items disallowed in that Sim would be good

i think a better idea is leave them alone - without changing but creating better system and deal with accouct settings that had problems with it - either create new accouct system for parents with child - that's which disneyland and WOE already have - both work well and put new TOS making clear for Minor to understand

because often minors don't aware of Mature or adult ratings in SL
when you enter TOS - you can skip this TOS very easily means more minors but one way is reduce minors - see my solution - separate accouct systems and parents control system and make Unskippable TOS - only allowed to pass when they read all the TOS and date of birth systems - they will filter AO from grid - for example item shown as AO but when minor visits the parcel with ao - he simply can't see AO items present on parcel or parcel access locked to AO only or set DOB settings that detects persons that not aged correctly

about policing - if linden don't police but lindens can make a clear infomation for parents - how to make chidren safer - for example WOE has parents settings which automaticlly do what parents want to see for example no blood or items - they tick off AO objects or items checkbox and voila - child can be safe

thanks

Wow, only 2 -4% of content is Adult according to your research? Did you also determine that there are no gays or transgendered in SL? Whoever did this research is certainly in one hell of a bubble of ignorance.

90% of users have joined SecondLife and stayed with it because of sex. I've been here for six years. Meeting someone who isn't f***ing somebody at least every now and then in a relationship is rarer than duck's teeth.

Who ever is making these policies wants SecondLife to die, they want the whole fabric to be destroyed. If they wanted to protect children they would have never allowed accounts to be created with absolutely no ID or verification. They have deliberately allowed a flood of teenagers and kids to swarm in sex-clubs just to get bigger user numbers.

What's the point, is it to make SecondLife more mainstream? You know what's mainstream: SEX. Sex sells, this is a fact, sex is the vast majority of internet consumer commerce and the same holds true in SecondLife. This place does sex on the internet better than anybody, better than the five or six other virtual worlds that have been set up strictly to cater to sex, and sex is the only reason SecondLife has succeeded like it has.

Whoever's running SL now doesn't like what it's become, and they've set out to reshape it. This won't improve profitability, it will harm profitability just like so many of these disastrous policies have. It is an act of pure vanity.

More then a few of us like to run around in less then what may be consided decent attire. My home is such a place as is te land my home sits on mainland. I do not sell skins or any other content but i have art that is mature content and I made it work just to get too my home which is 700 meters up above ground. I have naked images around my land but no worse then a museum and I am not alone in SL that has such art or like to run around in clothing we do not do in public. Is eveyrone who may just have such art in 'homes' in SL going to be foreced to change?

So far I havent seen any comment by that group that has a problem with how things are now. Forcing moves will be more problem causing then problem solving. I Should also say i have seen what might be considered mature or adult material in PG set areas, but it wasnt out for general viewing either. So long as cam viewing is part of SL anything is possible to see. I use remote cam viewing a lot for building because its easy for building purposes but some apparently use it as very sneaky peeping of private areas and actions. One can not help but wonder how man complaints are from those who are looking around in this manner. Rather then force moves, It would be better to try for more ature behaviours.

I haven't seen any change in the definitions yet, nor have I seen any Linden address my concerns on that matter. As the Maturity Ratings FAQ stands now, it is in direct conflict with the claim that these restrictions won't impact personal use.

For my own personal concerns, they could try and turn the entire Mainland into a "Disney-happy Webkins G-rated world", and it wouldn't impact me personally. The majority of my time as a content creator is spent on G-rated activities, I live on an Adults-only private sim, and I wouldn't pay LL a cent for Mainland, especially with these new restrictions. But I do build for others, and I need to KNOW, not just have guesses and vague promises, what the actual rules will be on the Mainland and on this new Adults-Only Restricted-continent. As it stands now, *unless the definitions change*, I would have to advise any client to avoid Mainland at all costs, if they had any interest whatsoever in using any adult content on their land, even in private. And I also need to know eacxtly what will be done to allow Private Island owners and land holders on private island sims to prevent unverified individuals from seeing "displays" of adult material, caused merely by a couple in their home using their sex bed.

Again, please link the procedures, data, and correlated results of this research which led to these numbers. I would like to review the source material and details for myself, as I am SURE many others would as well.



This is, as Ceera and others have pointed out, at EXTREME odds with the regulations posted in the FAQ entry. Before continuing, you MUST reconcile the two WHOLLY incompatible stances.



As pointed out, the SCOTUS has historically had severe difficulty with this issue, and NO ONE at Linden Lab has the credentials remotely credible enough to make claims that they can come up with "tight definitions" that won't be overly loose or restrictive for one situation or another. In fact, you will find that the more you try to tighten the definitions, the more instances and exceptions slip right through. It is a grand-scale balancing exercise that I am not sure anyone is qualified or capable of executing without massive fail. Given LL's propensity for bad policy leading to poor implementation, it doesn't leave me with a lot of hope for even the most mediocre of outcomes.



Again, please provide the research. To put it colloquially, "pictures, or it didn't happen".



No, PG is the exception; Mature is the default. Adult and Mature are the same thing. If you are in a Mature area, you should expect to have to deal with Mature themes and subject matter. If you don't want to deal with Mature themes and subject matter, you stay in non-Mature (PG) areas. Why are you over-complicating something which is rationally simple into something that will become hideously complex and unmaintainable in the long term?



There already is a choice. There is no need for yet another categorization. You have PG. You have Mature. PG is for those who don't want to deal with what they might experience with Mature. Sex and Violence are "Mature themes"; "Adult" is a synonym of "Mature".



OK, so, more-or-less, the spit polish on the turd. Got it.

Timeframe is mostly irrelevant to the implementation of a fundamentally-flawed plan. The sooner, the more worse, in general.



That's a rather general statement: "Second Life needed to change". Are you SURE you are properly interpreting WHAT needed to change? I don't think I have ever been asked for or provided feedback about this particular change. I don't know anyone who has, either. Are you SURE you're not mistaking one request for change for another? Like adfarm/extortion reduction requests meaning that we want adult zoning?

I'd love to see some of that feedback and aggregate data, and know just what percentage of the resident population contributed to it. I'd also like to see how you performed due diligence to solicit and collect, or at least categorize contrasting feedback and data.



I think you're going to have to talk about a LOT more than turd polish in those inworld meetings. Better bring your waders.

I think LL should create 2 new continents.

A disney PG continent where adults & kids can mix with prominent policing to deter pedophilia.

A X-rated continent where only verified adults can access

Turn all existing mainland gradually into Mature land as it sells.

And add the teen grid to the main grid allowing teens to access the PG continent.

A little less hysteria, we'reu're not going to get banned for rezzing a sexbed in a mature skybox.
Imagine a continent where traffic was real because you couldn't have 100 unverified bots.

Mitch Kapor and the masters of the linden universe need to sell LL to its users. Give us control of it. It's obvious Mitch and the Lindens don't understand what we users do here. They are running a company and they have no concept of their product. what engages people to be here and spend alot of RL money here. Mitch and friends think they can turn this into a corporate meeting space/online university and still keep us here long enough to pay for that move and then ban us all from their grid. They think the corps/universities will more than make up for all the money we spend inworld on tier fees, land, etc. Because they live in their San Fran linden bubble that is understandable. But here's a thought... How do you profit from a virtual world with no f-ing people in it? Take Active Worlds as a big example of what not to do. So, sell Linden Labs to the user base. At least we will try to improve it. Improve the server software, the client. Instead of constantly coming up with ways to kill it off. Just a thought.

I've not read all (almost all, but not all) of the threads here... just not enough time right now (it's getting late) - but as for the (paraphrased):


The 'why not' seems to me pretty straightforward... since (pretty much by definition) LL has to assume that anyone 'No Payment Info On File' or 'Not Age Verified' should be excluded from Adult material (whether it is because they are assumed to be <18, despite LL's protestations to the contrary, or IMO more likely, because they want SL to be encountered/perceived as a business/educational platform) ... consider the following gedanken (thought experiment):

LL makes a nice 'Lisneydand (TM)' PG-only continent. It is a happy, happy place... full of gingerbread houses and such. Not so much as a well-turned ankle is exposed to the brisk air of its beaches, and everyone wears shoulder-to-calf one piece bathing suits when swimming in the virtual surf. Of course, everyone can go there... no payment info on file or other verification required... because this is LL's 'best face forward' and of course it needs to be accessible to all and everyone when they first create an account (perhaps it is even designated as the default 'home' location for everyone). It is safe for teens (should they ever officially arrive on the main grid) and CIOs alike.

The new region is promoted in LL press announcements to commemorate the new continent... the virtual ribbon is cut... the gates are flung open... the new residents begin to arrive.

Almost immediately, the air is filled with the sound of choppaman cubes; bouncing lemon party / tubgirl / goatse / etc. particles fill every square meter of viewable area, and a cadre of folks with arrested emotional development wearing 10 meter flexidongs are screaming imprecations over voice while flying hither and yon and flooding chat with obscenities. Their accounts are soon wiped, but just as quickly they bring new unverified accounts online and resume their activities. This goes on for days, as the lulz and the impact on LL's plan of providing an exclusively PG area are just too much fun to resist.

The new PG continent is then shut down, as there is no way to _keep_ it PG while there are unverified accounts piloted by folks with excess time on their hands and subject to the temptation of a designated, stationary and well-defined (in terms of location on the map and green dots on the minimap) 'that stuff is not allowed here' lulz-target. Bottom line: Failure.

End of thought-experiment.

So... what is LL to do? It appears the answer is: flip it around... make the 'Adult' areas take on the onus of restricted access - only folks willing to put payment info on file and/or age-verify will be able to access 'controversial' areas ... these folks very likely _won't_ be the new arrivals, virtual reporters, or CIOs sampling SL's platform that LL is trying to keep around... so, such desirables (from LL's standpoint) can safely make a new account, log in and explore and LL can be fairly confident that they won't mistakenly wander into something that would cause LL embarrassment if shown on a Fox News esposé that evening.

Sure, there's no assurance a CIO won't run into Sir Flexidong and crew out on the vast expanse of the non-Adult grid, but at 30k or so regions... that's a _lot_ of diffuse area for those reprobates to cover, so a lot less exposure for LL as compared to the available alternatives. Really, no worse off in that regard for LL from today, with the additional benefit that said CIO won't wind up wearing a ballgag and suffering from the ministrations of a dominatrix unless (s)he specifically ponied up RL info to sign up for the privilege.

Just my take on the situation... be well, everyone .

think LL should create 2 new continents.

A disney PG continent where adults & kids can mix with prominent policing to deter pedophilia.

A X-rated continent where only verified adults can access

Turn all existing mainland gradually into Mature land as it sells.

And add the teen grid to the main grid allowing teens to access the PG continent.

A little less hysteria, we'reu're not going to get banned for rezzing a sexbed in a mature skybox.
Imagine a continent where traffic was real because you couldn't have 100 unverified bots.

Hear, Hear!

The nail has already been hit on the head: create a G/PG continent and direct all new users there and encourage (incentivise?) content creators who meet the G/PG criteria to set-up outlets within the new continent (not that the majoirty would likely need much encouragement!).

You've then created a clean, secure environment that is ready for the (Rosedale-hinted at) merger of Teen Grid as well as eliminating the risk of offending new adult users of a sensitive ilk.

SHOULD new users then determine they wish to explore SL more fully, they have the option of undergoing Age Verification / PIOF & taking wing across SL as a whole.

All that then needs to be done is to offer those existing users who are genuinely offended / upset by "adult" content with the option of voluntarily moving to the G/PG continent, with land being provided (as far as is possible) on a like-for-like basis with their current mainland holdings.

Jesika this is NOT a good suggestion. If one were to think this through properly one would realise that LL cannot be relying on parcel owners to police this . Built into the server there needs to be a check on AV versus Parcel for every attempted border cross. For both AV and camera.

So having the cursed and ugly and imagination-destroying BAN LINES at 4,000m is irrelevent.

You know, listening to both sides here, I wonder about perspective...

Someone in Hollywood, who happened to be Gay, once said in an interview that virtually everyone she knew in Hollywood was either gay or bisexual, even if they were not "out of the closet" publicly. And maybe, in the circle of people she associated with, that might be true. But it may still be a flawed perception.

Ask a group of extremist Christians how many people in "their community" would be shocked by gay or extramatital sex, and you'd get a very high number. Ask them what percentage of their friends were gay or bisexual, or engaging in extramarital sex, and the number would likely be extremely low.

Ask the same question of their Lesbian, Pagan neighbor, just down the street, who has been keeping a low profile and doesn't talk about sex or religion with her uptight neighbors. Get radically different numbers...

So, ask a Linden what percentage of residents in SL might be forced to relocate because of this policy, and they might honestly believe it's only 2% to 4% - because they don't hang out with the BDSM / escort Service / Gay / or whatever-kink-turns-you-on community, and are not familiar with the businesses and individuals who are into those kinks. And they don't know about the Orgy Skybox at 3500 Meters, or the basement Dungeon that is 80M below the plateau, under that innocent-looking castle.

Ask someone with an active sex life in SL what the percentages are, and their estimate will be much higher. Why, every friend they know at least has a sex bed and kinky pose balls! Doesn't everyone?

All a matter of Perspective.

Our 2-4% is what makes SL as popular as it is. Without us, SL simply be a novelty. Sex sells, and the Lindens know it.

All those people moving... selling their land for L$1/sq meter or less, or abandoning it to the lindens.. Paying for 2 sets of tier fees until the move is complete. Must make Mitch Kapor and the lindens mouth water.. So, much rl cash and all they had to do was come up with another way to screw their customer base...

But corporate cash is where the big money is (or at least appears to be) and LL has not been shy about saying that they'd like some.

I like your post. It brings up a good point. How much of the mainland would be affected by this in your opinion?

Instead of moving bits and pieces of mature parcels and clubs to a new adult continent, SL should take all the PG sims out of the mainland and put them together on a new PG CONTINENT.

Because it's easier to move a full sim as a single unit then have tens of thousands of land owners move piece by piece.

Also because SL *did it wrong* back when they mixed PG sims right next to Mature sims. A PG sim's edge parcels aren't really PG when lined up right next to Mature sims. Repair this by moving all the PG sims to one separate continent.

It's all about the money... Mitch Kapor and the Lindens at the top can't cash out... They want SL purged of all Adult Content so they can go IPO, get stock, sell it, and become very rich off all our hard work and money... They can't offer SL to Wall Street before they do that... They want a nice, clean, homogenized world so they can cash out..

I have to disagree here. The Lindens know. They may use alts to visit these places, but they do visit them.

NO NO. Not higher banlines PLEASE. That would put a complete end to flying. If you don't know this, just try flying around at 100m. Many areas intended to be public would become inaccessible. The potential for griefing and extortion with banlines, already grave, would become overwhelming.

Of course they do. They keep saying the "2-4%" numbers because that's what sounds good. If they only counted land that had somebody on it for more than an hour a day, the numbers would be very different. If they weighted it based on use, even non-bot use, the numbers would be hugely different. I wouldn't doubt that they'd be off by a significant 0.

You're kidding. You guys don't already know much of the mainland would be affected? What kind of research did you do? Give us a link, show us the methodology and the results.

Even so, this exercise is pointless. You are not going to get rid of the stupid "I found my husband whacking off to some chick in SL and I'm divorcing him" stories by moving adult content to a ghetto. News flash: most sexual activity in SL takes place in people's homes because that's what people do in their homes in real life. You are not going to erase SL's image of being a house of ill repute without getting rid of all sexual activity in SL. For that, you'd need to disconnect from the Internet, because people have been cybersexing when all there was was text.

You already have a policy in place about explicit content being in open view on both mature and PG land. Enforce it.

Or, as has been suggested, code a way so that explicit content isn't viewed by people who don't want to see it - either a special clean viewer, or build it into the main viewer.

Or, make a special grid for educators and people who want a pure PG experience. They can't tp out to the main grid, but let main grid people TP in and out.

This is just a disaster waiting to happen, and you don't enforce the policies you have already. What difference is having newer, stricter policies going to make?

That's a valid point. what will Linden Labs do about tier during this (certainly) unprofitable time of adjustment? Or any costs at all? We still haven't heard a single word about how much this will cost the owner of an adult venue.

"Originally Posted by Jeska Linden
Quote: by Chris Norse
Since a Linden has said that private homes and property will not be affected by this move, will you increase the ban line height to the building limit and put a block on camera movement into ban line protected land in order to help protect land owners from the roving lynch mobs this policy is sure to create?

Chris - Great suggestion! I'm not sure this has been on the table yet, but I will be sure to bring this to the team for their consideration as we move forward."


ain't THAT a pretty picture? Pardon me while i vomit.