Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Geographical Separation of Adult Content

Some thoughts on Expropriation:

* Some jurisdictions require that the government body offer to purchase the property before resorting to the use of eminent domain.

* Just compensation to owners is given.

Dear LL;

While awaiting the outcome of this otherwise vibrant topic discussion, identifying "Extra Mature" and "Ultra Violent", I would really appreciate if LL would ("Any Or No Reason" aside) address the very simple and often stated question:

"How will those affected by your new policy be given "Just Compensation"..?

Sincerely,
Aeon Snook

Last night we updated the blog post to help answer questions like this. The changes are not about adding teenagers to Second Life or the Teen Grid. I'll quote it here, because I think it helps to answer these questions: "Our research found an estimated 2-4% of the mainland parcels would need to either relocate or reconfigure to meet the requirements, based on our current definitions of Adult content, which again, is an area where we’d appreciate your feedback."

These changes are about providing a choice about the kind of experience people want to have in Second Life, which is fundamentally an 18+ service.

sorry, don´t spend your time with such nonsens to investigate the 2-4%, spend your time more with majour issues, like logging in problems, and specialy the probel with your Teleport kernal issue and don´t bother the ones, who create SL.

In germany we would say, first, make your homework, than you can talk further

Can you give us more details of your research? Did you survey a certain area? Which specific places will be required to relocate? I think a detailed list of real life examples of places that must shutdown or do not have to would be very helpful.

Also, please stop pretending you are adding choices. You are removing choices, supplying more restrictions. It's very insulting to hear you claim you are trying to give us more choices. If this goes through I will suddenly no longer be able to enjoy adult passtimes in SL unless I am registered. I will not longer be able to sell adult goods and services except to registered accounts. Essentially adult businesses like clubs will be utterly wiped from the map because of a lack of customers. You are destroying the adult industry in SL and that's fine I suppose if that's what you want. But don't sneak it in under the cover of "choice"

O really?

That is not what I gather from https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=6010, and I quote:

Guess what... any simple pubs, or theaters containing just 1 slip of a nipple (aka Janet Jackson) will need to be in an Adult region.

Do your math. That's a HUGE number of residents who will be facing this issue.

Or you have to change the "definition" of the Adult-content.


So again... This is a definition that is only true in the eye of the beholder... If some girl is being spanked it is not something I consider to be "extremely violent" nor "explicitly sexual". But guess all of you Linden$ do?

Basically, to me this means the following...

1. If I have to move my shop (where I sell adult/mature items, photo's and so on) to an Adult region, I want a one on one exchange in sqm... And Linden helping me with moving the stuff.

2. If that's not possible, so I'd be forced to sell my land and buy from the Adult region, then Linden will have to make amend by buying it back for a decent land price. So that I can buy from the adult region at a similar price (no profit, no loss).

3. If option #2 is also not possible... then it will be me selling out and moving to OpenLife. Bye bye 2ndlife.


Edit: typo and some [] code fixed

You're getting feedback and plenty of it, people want to know how you came to these stats and I for one find it hard to believe you'd go to all this trouble for 2-4% of mainland content. There's also the deep suspicion that this is a forerunner for a merged grid, especially as you won't make a commitment beyond "Immediate" on the subject of merged grids.



Choice would be making the new continent G rated, forced relocation will never amount to a true choice, no matter how many times you try to spin that line.

Right on the money.

If that is the case, then create the squeaky clean new continent for newbies, corporations, and the teenagers-who-aren't-coming. People who want a G rated zone will move there. People who don't want to move, won't. You will give the SAME KIND OF EXPERIENCE without uprooting people, not even 5%. You'll have a safe and smut-free zone that corporations have been telling you to build for a couple of years now. And when the teens who aren't coming fail to arrive, you can not put them in the clean sims and be free of any potential legal threats or liabilities of having them not see people not being naughty in their not private homes by not camming into them!

The activity in the definition thread has increased a great deal, however the big problem is that every part of this, the relocation and search issues especially, completely hinge on what the final definition of "adult/mature/offensive" content is.

There has been numerous suggestions in that thread, but let's be realistic, defining what is considered offensive, on a global platform such as second life, is next to impossible. I believe it's often referred to as the "gathering place for the world".

In some parts of the world, nudity is not offensive nor automatically sexual. In the US, views on sexualality can be somewhat rigid compared to Europe. Also, in some parts of the world, a visible ankle is considered offensive and sexual.

Basically, what I'm saying here is that until the definition is clearly defined, we have no choice but to assume the worst in this thread.

WaterFall, this question has come up a few times in this thread, which is why we highlighted it in the update to the blog post last night, I've copied the relevant portion below:

* Both PG and Adult are the exception, rather than the rule, in Second Life. We would prefer to keep the majority of the content and interaction where it is currently – the Mature regions.

Second Life is an 18 years and up product, so the majority of content will continue to be located in mature regions. We've estimated that only around 2-4% of content on the mainland would be considered Adult according to our current thinking.

Those numbers mean squat... let me explain why.

People who are in mature region now have sexbed. However... *gasp* someone can see them going at it... People think they are safe in their own house. They're not. An nude photo of a resident can be seen through a window.

So basically I wonder how that research was conducted? Probably a SQL statement to see how many people really did flag their land as mature/adult compared to those who didnt. Or did you inspect each and every object in the Second Life universe?

That contradicts the definition as it is on layed out in https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=6010 for what is content that should be tagged as "Adult".

Newsflash. Both OpenLife and Legend City Online prohibit all sexual content. They're G rated worlds...in addition to being much smaller, more unstable, and less financially secure even than SL. Not a viable option.

Pervus, thank you for your thoughtful comments. We're still working on definitions on what is considered Adult (happening in a few of these forum threads), but in general sexy clothing, skins, and furries aren't inherently explicitly sexual, and will stay in the Mature areas (i.e. won’t need to move to the Adult continent). Sex beds in a private home, skins, and the such are all fine and would not have to move. Its when the theme or main advertising point is sexual that it would cross a line between mature and adult.

Jeska, thanks for your participation in the thread. Since you're here and reading, can you please address the concerns about how the actual move will be handled, and what will be expected of those people who fall under the new guidelines?

Specifically, will LL be providing a m2-for-m2 straight exchange and allow them time to move and set up, or will the land be going up for open auction so people can gouge them silly? Will LL be buying back their now useless mainland?

Thanks.

In that case can you explain why your "current thinking" is so diametrically opposed to the statements in the KB article

From: KB

Any publicly accessible Region must be designated "Adult" and therefore require Adult validation if it advertises, makes available, references, or displays the following:

1. Representations of explicit sexual conduct or genitalia, whether or not photo-realistic ("sexual conduct" will be defined inclusively, to include all erotic themes)
   
2. Representations of intense violence depicting death, torture, dismemberment or other severe bodily harm
   
3. Photo-realistic nudity
   
4. Sexually themed spaces (whether indoors or outdoors)

This clearly applies to 60 or 70% of the entire grid. Is someone planning on changing the KB so it accurately protrays your "current thinking"?

Bravo!!! for so long now, going on 6 years I've watched as Second Life grew from a conglomerate of peaceful, non-pornographic sims, to now, where you type the words "skins + photorealistic" in search and come up with the word "sex" NOT "sexy" about 400 times (exaggeration). To any of you familiar with Yahoo chat from say, 1999-2002, you'll remember it was a thriving community...lots of nice USER created chatrooms...then the porn bots came into the USER created rooms (now they are in the Yahoo created rooms as well)...and the place became a trawl for predators, pornographers, and illegal video makers. In SL's case, much like Stargate (yes dorky)...bots in SL are the replicants...but PORNO at every corner, at every place you TP too (cept Frank's and the Titanic) and places such as that, have porn (exaggeration, but you get my point). I remember walking down Linden roads without seeing spinning porn boards or having an entire culture, such as Neva's, based on a 90210-esqe attitude, of let's have sex with every avatar....anyway. Not to say that that is a bad thing, but I think that is a singular mindset when this world has so much more to offer. As the Linden said in her posting, a Adult continent will allow adult content oriented players to know where they are going...the businesses to provide their wares, and for players that don't wish to see that crap in a world that could be beautiful, a way for us to enjoy the creativity of the game, not the sexuality.

However, I believe 2-4% is low, what about all these animation shops, like Xcite? That is definitely ADULT content.

Anyway, that is my opinion...so far, so good...Lindens...

yo ho ho, a pirate's life for me!

oh and chances are, I won't read this forum again, so if you respond...send me an IM. tah tah

Yet, the KB article you linked still has not been updated to harmonize with what you've said on the blog. The two are STILL at odds with each other.



Then what are they truly about?



I'll reiterate my request, again: Please provide the research data and methodology. No meaningful input can be given until we understand the real nature of the problem you are trying to solve.



Since when have people NOT had a choice about the kind of experience they want to have in SL? Please elaborate on what problems, specifically, you are trying to solve here, THEN solicit feedback on ideas on how to solve them.

What is the real motivation behind this new stratification, and what problems is it solving that couldn't be solved with your existing rules and tools? Please don't quote the vacuous and conflicting messages you've put out so far, as they DO NOT ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

judging by how harry linden has added a nude child av in the same nudist resort as a nude adult av to the list of what is broadly offencive I guess all public display of nudety of any sort is going to be classed as adult by the gteam and will have to move or be flagged in case it is on a private sim.

probably accedently tping to a adult sim as a child av will be reason for a suspension too in line with the gteam policy of shoot first and don't even bother to ask when it comes to accusations of sexual ageplay.

Well then, I will withdraw competely...

Oh and the last statement isn't entirely true.

OL/LCO compared to SL:
Much smaller: Yes
Unstable: Not really
Less Financially Secure: Totally Untrue (with the Linden$ causing again havoc with this kind of 'proposed changes' to something which is the biggest 'financial' influence... Remember the "gambling" conduct changes...)

If that isnt allowed in OL/LCO then it's due to a total lack of 'real life economics' more stable then SL.

But we're going offtopic now... *moves back*

I have to agree.

Jeska, we need more deep background here. How exactly did LL come up with this 2-4% figure? And who, exactly (not names, obviously, but numbers of residents, and a breakdown by status...SL age, land ownership, etc.) provided you with this "increasing amount of feedback" that led to this Brave New Plan? Judging from the responses you're getting in the forums, it wasn't much of a cross section of the population.

By my own estimation, going by your own definition of "Adult" content as currently provided, the actual figure is a LOT more than 2-4%. You are either going to have to do a better job with that definition, or re-think your research methodology and findings.

The best statistic, short of an actual on-the-grid survey, that I can think of is the square meters of PG land vs. the square meters of Mature land. Those who currently live on PG land pretty obviously don't want to be "impacted" by mature subject matter. What's THAT percentage?

I wonder why, do your homework first, then we can talk later...how about, since the Lindens run the game, they get the dirty work they should have done years ago out of the way, to keep this place from being overran by porn conglomerates like Free Sex Empire, then work on teleport kernal issues..I for one, have no issue with that, as the majority of the 400000 odd regular players don't. "For the greater good of the majority....."

@Marcus S....well, ya know dude, doesn't the Netherlands have laws that say you can have sex when you are 14 or something? or get married at that age when studies prove that the brain only really starts maturing @ the age of 15 and imprinting belief systems? It's called maturity, rule and law, and they are there for a reason....oops, off topic. *moves back*

Again, you're not answering the question and avoiding the blindingly obvious solution that would make corps and education happy, providing them with a non adult area such as a G or Pg rated or whatever rating you're allowed to use. That's the sensible solution to all of this and that provides choice.

If you think those who object to adult content are going to be happy that their build is neighboured by the SL equivalent of swingers think again, you're not appeasing those who object to adult content with this move and you're not appeasing those who have the common sense to turn a blind eye and move their camera away.

A G rated continent however keeps both camps happy.

[/list]


Ceera, Elanthius, Marcuw (and any others who I missed) - thank you for calling that out. That article is a draft and quite frankly, does not represent our current thinking (or these discussions we're currently having). It should not have been published and I will ask to have it removed until we have finalized our definitions and it has been updated.

This is definitely a work in progress and my apologies for some of the rougher edges!

I am genuinely impressed by your (and your colleagues') ability to evade answering questions.

If "Both PG and Adult are the exception, rather than the rule" then what is to stop you from making the new continent PG rather than Adult, so preventing all the upheaval for those who don't want to move and all the bad feeling from people who don't want to be "ghetto-ised". It would also make the PG areas safer for those who like that sort of thing as they would not be interspersed with Mature regions. Oh, and it would give people a genuine choice which the current proposals do not.

Please could you explain why this seems to be a "done deal"?

Because it is?