Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Geographical Separation of Adult Content

Yes, sadly I think you are right. I suspect that what happened is this: LL asked some RL businesses what changes would need to happen for them to move into SL. "Clean up the adult content" was the response. This is why LL won't entertain the idea of a PG continent. They want to be able to say "we've cleaned up the adult content into a separate area", not "We've made a separate area where you can safely conduct business".

If the businesses come in and find that neighbouring parcels are still full of adult content but it doesn't count because it's a private residence or a store which also stocks non-adult content, I wonder how long they will stay.

That may be. However, what is as of yet completely undefined and open to interpretation is when does my "home" transition from being PRIVATE to PUBLIC.

For example, if I have a piece of land on the main land and I construct a box at 750M and put all my "toys" there, and only use it for my and my invited guests use, then that's pretty clearly a private location.

Similarly, if I create a landmark and advertizing for it and list it as a "public playroom", then it's clearly a public location.

But what if I'm at ground level planting a tree and my neighbor and I start talking and I tell him that if I'm not around and he feels like using my skybox, feel free, I don't mind. Is it still PRIVATE?

What if someone happens to be flying by and bumps into my skybox and decides to use it? Is it still PRIVATE?

What if I see said flyer there and don't activly eject them, nor do I bother placing ban lines around it, is it still PRIVATE?

Unless LL expects people to start placing ban lines around all their property, then everything on the mainland is essentially public. Until they can clearly define public vs. private, then any assurances that my private land won't be affected is meaningless.


^^^ yea, what a couple of other people already said while I was typing this

Go take a look knowledge base Article #5198. It says:

Land inworld in Second Life can be owned in three varieties:

* Mainland
* Islands (Private Regions)
* Openspaces

A little further down, it says:

What is an Island?
An island, or Private Region, is a 256mX 256m piece of standalone virtual land...

The only reference I am seeing to "private" land is Islands.

The thing that needs to be defined, for people not to be in fear of what oters might AR them for in their own bedroom, is what constitutes "Public" sex (or violence, for that matter).

If it is inside the walls of my home, and I have the exterior of the windows darkened to opaque, or I have mostly opaque curtains drawn, is it "In Private", and not subject to these restrictions?

What about the hot tub in my back yard, if I only allow my household members to use it? If the parcel is banlined and has a security orb to prevent uninvited intruders from using the "make out" pose ball set on the rim of the tub?

What if I have a XXX set of pose balls hidden in the bushes? Where none of my neighbors can see it from their land?

What if I set up a lounge with free-use pose sets, and some of them are XXX, like a stripper pole and a lap dance chair in one corner. No excorts or paid strippers working there. Just some toys for my guests to use, if they choose? What if that lounge is above ban line heights, and anyone who finds it could make use of it? Still not a business, and still within an enclosed space...

Where will the lines be drawn? We need to know.

The default should be unrestricted. Let those that seek to restrict the activities and content of others move to a "secure location". This is unacceptable.

http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2009/03/red-light-segregation.html



Above quoted from this article so why are we even having this discussion as it seems to be already set in stone and straight from Cyn's own mouth

Welcome to Corporate America folks!

The reason some questions are not being answered is pretty simple: LL is simply not going to admit to them in public.

In the corporate world, sex has no place. The suits must pretend that everything is nice and sterile. They would LOVE to eliminate sex totally from places like SL. But they're not totally stupid, they know that the bulk of revenue comes from sex-related business. Eliminating it would probably kill SL.

So, not being able to get rid of it, they do the next best thing and try to hide it away, so they can pretend it isn't there, while still reaping the financial rewards from it.

This simple fact is worth all the expense and suffering that such segregation always results in. And it is so important that the ramifications of such a move are never clearly thought out, let alone planned for. All that matters is to sweep sex under the carpet where it cannot be seen. This is, of course, hypocrisy to the max. But that too doesn't matter.

So no, you won't get answers to questions like: what prompted this decision? What is the basis for the 2-4% numbers given? Because there IS no rational answer to those questions. And that is also why the alternative will never be considered, even though it is FAR more logical, and FAR simpler to implement: a G-Rated continent that is "sex free". See, the suits want to be able to roam where they like without being faced with (ghasp) sex.

So, to appease the few at the top, the rest of the population has to undergo upheaval, LL staff will now spend way too much time having to make black-white decisions over whether some item, or club, or whatever, is adult or not. But hey, the suits will be happy, so it's worth it - right? Well, happier anyway... they still have to live with adult content even though they would so much rather just get rid of it all. But money is money.

-- Miro

LL wants discussion? Fine.
We need to know what you thought, and why you thought it, before you can get discussion.

People on Agni, mainland have been arbitrarily and unexpectedly targeted.
* Why did LL choose to do this, now?
* Why was this method chosen over opening a new "safe" continent or "business and education" grid, vetting content as safe for those uses, and shadowing them into those asset databases?

If you have a "2-5%" number, then you already have your target list of things you filtered for.
* How did you pick the targets to filter for?
* Who will be hit?
* What is their recourse to your discrimination?
* When will the axe fall?

Disclaim: I've been age-verified for years. I object to this ghetto-ization because of the cavalier method it was planned, and the damaging way it will be carried out. But, we already see the Linden spin and damage control machine is gearing up. It's free signups, copybot, land crash, and openspace all over again.

Off Topic:
For a long time, I've wondered why LL didn't bother with using direct polling of residents on sweeping changes like this. Then, my internal cynic answers: because that puts the power in the hands of the players... and LL certainly can't have that.

LL can send a drop down box to the entire grid saying "Don't Rez we're broken".. and spammers can send bogus group invites mass lists of resident keys. Combine them. Where is the polling system where LL sends a notice to every screen: "We need your input on THIS harebrained scheme: Can we wreck your experience like this? Y/N."

Everyone in SL is in a meta-group you could call "SL players" - fix the stupid broken group proposals system and use that, grid wide, to request resident opinion on topics like this. Collect that for 60 days and you get 1.5 million (supposedly) direct opinions on the topic.

Sorry, I don't remember getting asked at login whether or not I:
* ... objected to adult content in SL (nope)
* ... had any problems with the current PG/Mature system (nope other than why bother)
* ... wanted a Porn Ghetto for SL (nope)
* ... wanted to make SL safe for teens (nope)

A lot of decisions and assumptions went in the announcement, and I know my input was never part of that. But, I do know you've had the ability to request and collect it for years, either through the web surveys or through some fixed group proposal vote.

* Why don't you just ASK everyone?

Having thought some more after my earlier comment, I have come up with another issue that I think could be important. Separation of the new continent into sexual and violent content zones.

I am sure that many people whose interests are purely erotic would object to being forced into proximity with a violent sim. Furthermore, some people whose interests are military might object to sexual content.

Your home is not safe, no matter what sunshine LL is spouting. Example: A person has a large home. Outwardly, it conforms to the rest of the community. Inside, it's a BDSM club. All the members belong to one group, called, say, "Boss's Family". There are tip jars about. Now, someone complains that it's a sex club and should be relocated to the Adult Continent. The group owner makes the counter-claim that it's a private residence for his extended SL family. The tip jars are just there to help defray expenses.

Sex club or private home? Business or residence? What's the distinction? What are the criteria for deciding?

Also note that the published content guidelines say NOTHING about them being "for businesses only". They apply to ALL content.

All I can say on the topic is: No. Leave the content where it is and keep your noses where they belong.

If someone has an isue with a bit of content they have stumbled across (meaning they did not go and look for it) they can do what everyone else does: Move on.

Will this new adult land be assigned to current citizens who already own land and have adult content? Will we need to buy new land? Some artists might feel that their work is an adult level installation and not suited for mature areas, will we be forced to remove that artist if they are on display in a mature gallery?

I am also concerned what is considered adult. Would the display and discussion about transsexuality be considered adult when all people of all ages suffer from this condition? I will walk away from Second Life if this becomes a form of discrimination and isolation.

Question is, *will* they spend time policing search results and so forth. After already cutting back on staff i.e. live help and such things. Or is this just to make SL attractive 'on paper'.

A lot of this sounds like 'bright ideas' a corp would speak at a stockholder meeting. Like "Let's move our factories to (developing nation) and pay a dollar a day." Bottom line/stockholders are who is being talked to, not those actually in the grist themselves. Any more than those other companies asked their American workers or thought about economic repercussions nationwide here. Similar thing. Us and ours. Not them and theirs. Us being those the corporation caters to, i.e. investors. (Not rank and file 'investors' in SL, obviously since they're being treated like redhaired stepchildren; but a real, steady, longterm pipeline of funds. Like a corporate sponsor. Or company stockholders.)

Will any of those investors/'suits' as you say, ever actually play SL? (This is all guesswork but since as others note, we're not being told WHY, what else can we really think.)

Thing is, if mom and pop sell the farm, there isn't much we can do. We just live here.

Perfectly put and its worth repeating...until we get an answer.

I read the several initial postings by Lindens regarding this matter. After finishing each one, I have to admit that my head tilted to the left and I went "huh?" My initial impression was that Linden Labs must have recently hired someone from the "Parents for Sanitizing the World" Council or "People Are Too Stupid to Change the TV Channel So We Must Protect Them From Seeing Anything Offensive" Group. Or one of the other "OMG THERE IS SMUT AND VIOLENCE EVERYWHERE RUN RUN RUN" places or something like that.

Because:

1. When signing up for SL, it is clear it is for 18+ only. Therefore, not for children. Therefore, it's possible there will be "adult" things there. Otherwise, children would be welcome. Forgive me for thinking that being able to complete the sign-up on the website requires even a passing acquaintance with logic. Or language comprehension. Silly me.
2. As it is an 18+ platform, IT IS POSSIBLE THERE WILL BE ADULT CONTENT. Yes, that was repeated. Apparently it needs to be since some people have, evidently, missed the point.
3. The arrow keys, mouse, TP button and "exit SL" buttons all still work. Huh. Maybe it is true that people are too stupid to turn away, TP away or exit the viewer in order to avoid seeing anything they find offensive. Gosh, gee, we better make sure adults don't see any adult things that might offend them.

Then, I started reading the responses, paying special attention to replies from Linden staff. I'm afraid the only thing that told me was they are good at replying without replying and using words and phrases that tell me they have already decided they are doing this and why they are doing this (and the "why" is not for the reason they are claiming) and, at most, the resident responses might get them a few more ideas of what to move/ban/put on a watch list, a refinement of the rules and, maybe, a guesstimate of how much revenue they will lose and have to make up the difference with their corporate and educational accounts.

I also have to admit that when I first signed up for Second Life, I was someone confused by the fact that there were M and PG areas. Um. I'm over 18. Everyone on SL is, in theory, over 18. Why the heck do I need my parents' guidance here? Oh, okay. Sure, I can see how maybe some people would like some areas designated as a little more "residential suburbs" instead of constantly wondering if a casino, brothel or rape club might spring up next door. So, really, PG really means "have fun but don't take off your pants". Ah. Okay. Got it. I don't personally think it's necessary but whatever, it's not bothering me any. I came to SL because I was told it is an adult place and I didn't have to worry about children or teens wandering around. Finally! A virtual world for adults where I didn't have to constantly edit myself.

Time goes by. More and more, SL is touted as being an amazing platform for everything from fun to serious business. Well, yes, it has a LOT of potential but it's also kinda fine just how it is. HOWEVER, I simply don't understand why ADULTS should not be in charge of what they see and where they go without the need to label, restrict and brand the other residents. I think the automated delivery of a notecard upon entering the welcome area after sign up saying "WARNING: ADULT CONTENT (just in case you didn't figure that out by it being an 18+ platform) PLEASE MAKE USE OF YOUR CAMERA CONTROLS, TP BUTTON AND EXIT BUTTONS AS NEEDED" should be enough for anyone signing up for Second Life as it is now.

That does not mean that educational and corporate entities can not make use of Second Life. That means those that do not wish to use Second Life as (in the general sense) an entertainment platform, as it is now, need to be given the choice of a mainly business and educational area not intended for regular SL business or residences. It doesn't even have to be a separate grid like the Teen Grid. Simply a mainland area set aside for that purpose. Those people who sign up with those intentions are not restricted from entering the mainland if they are over 18 and neither are those who are using for educational purposes and are over 18.

The ONLY reason I can think of for the wording often used in Linden replies, especially that about those who SHOULD and WANT to access adult content is that, soon, SL will be allowing under 18 on the main grid. Despite them saying it's not about that. Just signing up for SL should confirm you are an adult with either whatever tools they use now or additional ways if that will make people feel better.

Everyone has the right to not be FORCED to see things that bother them, regardless of what it is. And by FORCED I mean, unable to leave the area, unable to turn away or unable to turn off their computer. However, as this is a virtual world run using a computer, the choice is always the users and no one is FORCED to do more than catch a brief glimpse of something, at most, if wandering into an unfamiliar area.

For example, I find the color pink (especially that bright, cotton candy, pink) extremely annoying to the point that I literally get a headache looking at it. So, if I land in a store whose theme is pink, I make use of my camera controls, tp away or log off so I can go vomit. However, I don't think every store who uses pink should be forced to move or change just in case I happen to drop in, intentionally or unintentionally. I have the option of 1. leaving that store and never coming back 2. turning off SL 3. Leaving SL completely because almost every store in SL has begun having a pink theme. And if a pink store moves in next to my house, I still have the option of 1. lowering my draw distance 2. putting up something next to my house so I don't have to see it 3. moving my house (either on the current land or buying new land) or 4. leaving SL for good.

But, as an adult, I do have choices to go or not go somewhere, look or not look, participate or not participate in SL. While I do not have a problem with the idea that LL wants to assure themselves that everyone on the main grid is over 18, the ways to do that might have to be expanded because of all the problems non-US people seem to have.

I do have a problem with segregating certain businesses, people, lifestyles, etc, ANY business, ANY theme, ANY lifestyle, whether *I* approve of that SL COMPLETELY VIRTUAL lifestyle, activity, theme or business, for whatever reason anyone wants to give, if the main SL grid is to remain restricted to 18+. The current general rules of M sims being intended for anything and everything while the PG sims are a bit tamer is sufficient (although I've always found it odd that M and PG are right next to each other which renders PG completely useless).

To me this all just seems like "THERE ARE NO CHILDREN HERE BUT LETS PROTECT THE CHILDREN JUST IN CASE" or, more likely, "The media is sooo mean and unfair, we're never going to get invited to the ball this way." so, I continue to tilt my head to the left and say "huh?" and will decide to stay or leave when I find out how much annoying crap I'll have to put up with to stay and how completely boring SL becomes once it's been made safe for work, families and puppies everywhere.

The silence on the issue of whether LL will provide relocation assistance is both deafening and telling.

Are we going to go into the weekend with no word on wheather we will have to re-buy land and carry double tier for the old until we re-sell it?

Is there going to be an even trade for an EXACT same land mass as one currently has?

Are old landmarks in the database going to be changed to reflect ones new location?

If you have an entire mainland sim (I do) can it be moved and keep it's same sim name?

Is there any possibility if one has an entire mainland sim of getting it changed to an island with no additional up front cost although moving to island tier level?

If landmarks can not be redirected/relabeled in the database will we have an option of holding the old land for a month or two with a LM giver/redirect signage there with no additional tier?

These are questions that really shouldn't be hard to give people an idea about, as these are all things that would certainly have been thought for and planned before officially announcing an intent to uproot and move long standing, established, tier paying, upload spending, classified buying, SL buisness owners.

My current sim cost me 3000usd to purchase a couple of years ago, my current monthly expenditure to LL is around 400usd. If I am going to be required to come up with another 3k to re-buy a sim in the ghetto and incur an additional 200usd a month (if that is what ghetto tier is, no one has said for sure it would cost the same to be in the 'special zone' or not) in a few weeks then I need to be able to start planing and arranging for an expenditure like that NOW, not a couple of weeks before it is required, or a month before it is required even. If landmarks from my old sim can't be redirected to my new ghetto sim I need to be able to start trying to guage the severity of and plan for the revenue drop I am going to incur over that. If my new ghetto sim can't have the same name as my current one, I need to know so I can change some branding strategies. If my new ghetto sim can not be a water sim with one side as a water border like my current one I need to know so that I can start to work on a redsigned build stratagey.

I would certainly hope the plans that have been made for these kinds of issues could be made known before we go into the LL silent weekend with the sky is falling rumor mill at max thrust.

What happened to the ODP? Are they still around? How did they handle it after you left?

MAV?

As people pointed out its a 18+ area.

It means adult material. So make a classification off adult is just idoitic.

If you think we over 18+ needs parents guidance. Then you better write when you register: Pay attention we linden lab dont think you over 18+ is capable of thinking on your own.

Keep sl as it is and make sure that kids and teenager dont steel or use their parents cards or social security numbers and register as adults when they are 12-17.

And i heard some program made a intervju with a "linden" and he said 80% of the female avatars was run by males in rl. Maybe you should make sure that if some one makes a female or male avatar that they really are who they claim to be.

Well i know one thing if you go through with this you will loose another 50% of the users and all you will have left is a few sims with complaining people that cant understand that they can leave a sim they dont like.

Heya Rosie, apologies for not having further details on the move - since we've announced this with plenty of time in advance of anything *actually* happening, we don't have all of the details on the functional side of the move.

Without having the details, I can assure you that we will work closely with those who provide Adult goods or services so they can continue their activities without long-term disruption or loss of business.

Linden Labs, I think you have heard enough paying and law abiding residents voice concern over how this sudden change in policy is going to affect their adult businesses. You have already stated in plain terms that its going to happen, but you have danced around the issues that will affect us the most.
(and no, I dont mean holding our hands and walking us through the process of buying and selling land. If we are going to be labled adult, treat us like adults.)

What assistance will you give us in relocating to this adult continent, and what option will be open to us?

What kind of real help can we expect in that area?

Will this be a square meter per square meter trade?

Will we have choice of the region and parcel and if so, who gets first dibs?

What will happen to the old land if we do trade?

Will you give us a tier grace period to adjust to the new area, and if so, how long?

Will this happen before or after you have EFFECTIVE and EASY and NON-INTRUSIVE age verification technolgy in place?

These are all questions that ANY business, not just adult businesses would be forced to address.

The people who will be made to move won't have to pay.



That would be ideal.



That would be a lot of LM to change. I am not very technical, so I do not know if this is possible.



Like I said above, I'm not very technical so I don't know if moving the entire sim would be possible.



Flagging content and moving wouldn't result in any increased fees. Would you really be interested in transferring to a private island?



That's a good idea and a definite possibility.

Yes, Titania, there is about our homes. I have a menu driven sex pose ball at the side of a stream in my garden. I do like to have cyber-sex there, under the stars. No, I don't make this all the time, just once or twice a month. This mean that I'll have to move? Will LL exchange my plot with no cost? Will LL pay me for the trouble and work to move?

I rent a 520 sq m house to a friend, but let him use 400 prims, from the unused prims of my garden, instead of the 117 of such plot. If he doesn't verify, will LL found a similar plot for him? Will LL pay me the lost rentals?

In Brazil that's what we call "idéia de jerico".

(from wikipedia-pt: "In Northeast Brazil, jerico is the same as mule. Come hence the term "jerico's idea," attributed to some silly idea."

So more than 30 pages later, and many more people asking it, you are still dodging the issue of how the forced relocation will be handled. I can very much understand not wanting to be locked in to a particular path, and I can understand the need to keep your avenues open. Even with that in mind however, a lot of the current frothing and raging is centered around HOW you plan to treat those you are deporting.

Are you throwing us to the nonexistent mercy of the barons and flippers?

Will you provide assistance in changing thousands and thousands of landmarks pointing to our existing locations?

Assuming we are not utterly and totally screwed with a lottery or auction system on the new land, will said new land be equivalent in quality to the area we are being forced out of?

What, if any, compensation is being offered for those affected?

For those who survive the whole process, what are the assurances that the apocalypse will then be over, and we can get back to the long process of rebuilding without worry of the NEXT wave of sanctions?

EDIT: Thank you very much for starting to answer these questions. It is greatly appreciated, and goes a long way towards calming at least my nerves.