RC Questions

I've gotten about halfway thru transcribing the audio part of the brown bag meeting here:

http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Linden_chat_Logs

The part that's done shows the Linden Staff Just don't get the distinction between adult activity and products




As Natasia and others have pointed out, we use the *same words* to denote an activity that's adult (sex club) and a product that itself is not adult in the store (sex bed).

But search only knows to filter the word. That's where the problem lies:

* Use a filtered word in your search listing, and half the customers will not see the ad.

OR Stay away from the filtered words, and they won't know what you are selling.

* Stay on mature land, and let customers "test drive" the beds, and risk being abuse reported for public sex

OR Move to Adult land, and half your customers will not be able to teleport there.

Bad choices no matter what you do.

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You're possible choices are to:

(1) Have separate parcels for your land, one with adult words in search, the other without.

(2) Put your adult words in the image of the ad, not the text.

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Thanks!

I will try to bring you up to speed on the answers we have gotten previously in 2 months of forum messages and meetings. I dont necessarily agree with the answers, they are just what we know as of now:

1) Why is it not possible to stay where I am and have my parcel marked adult?

* The software does not support flagging by parcel, only by region.

2) Why is it that I purchased mature land under the assumption that it was exactly that, "mature", and now I have to move because it's no longer acceptable to use it for mature adults? I feel I have been mislead.

* For some reason Linden Labs feels its in their best interest to "hide" adult activity. That includes making some land unreachable if you are not verified and putting adult stuff on that land, and by filtering search words. Whether its to "clean things up" for corporate and educational customers, or due to pressure from pandering politicians:

I cant tell you for sure. Estate owners can arrange their regions' maturity settings as they see fit. Linden Labs as the estate owner for the mainland, has decided to group all the adult regions in a new continent, and leave the existing region settings alone. At the same time they are editing the definitions of PG, Mature, and Adult, thus changing the allowed activities of those who already have land. We kinda feel ass raped too.

3) Why can't under 18's simply be kept to the teen grid and SL be left as it is? What is the point of the teen grid after all?

*In an online environment, identity is almost impossible to verify, short of biometric ID for everyone every time you log in. There is nothing to stop a correctly created account for a real teen, from being used by their parents. Nor is there any way to stop a correctly created, verified by ID and payment info account on the main grid from being used later by a child. All they need is the password.

The account verification, seach, and teleport limits will keep *some* underage people away from *some* adult material. Private homes on the mainland are *not* being forced to move or remove their sex beds. So it's still entirely possible to have an unverified avatar with a teen at the keyboard having SL sex.

4) Why can't a new PG area be made for those that want it? I suspect they are in the minority, so why upset the apple cart for the majority?

*We have asked for that lots of times. At first, they said "its not in our plans". I think I heard them say "we might create more themed areas" recently, but I need to verify that.

"Questions 1 & 2 are particularly important to me... I would appreciate an explanation as to WHY the Lindens cannot mark parcels as adult. I simply cannot believe that this is impossible."

*I am sure its possible, it is not in the next software version (1.23). I think it is not good enough as far as "hiding the naughty stuff" to have mixed regions. By putting it on a separate continent, it is too far to cam in.

"Also I feel I have a valid point on the fact that I was led to believe mature mainland could be used for anything when I bought it in 2007. Surely you must see it as unethical to simply change the rules after I have bought the land and spent countless hours building a business on it."

*It's not just you, it's *everyone*. The people being forced to move to the new Adult continent (Ursula) are getting land that half of SL cannot search for or teleport to. The ones on Mature or PG land are having the rules changed as to what they can do with it. The last draft of the PG rules would prevent you from showing the Disney cartoon "Beauty and the Beast" (due to social alcohol use).

*They will make you agree to the new rules by presenting a revised TOS and Community Standards. Whether changing a contract in a one sided fashion (accept these new terms, or lose all your game assets) constitutes an unfair trade practice is a matter for lawyers and courts to decide.

*Personally, I think they should offer *anyone* affected by this change a free swap to another region with different maturity settings or a buyback of your land if you choose to cash out. The offer on the table now is *some* people, whose business requires they be classed as adult, will get a swap to Ursula.

I asked specifically if I or others could use an older viewer, once they have used the NEW VIEWER to indicate they WANTED access to ADULT SIMS. So you only need to use the NEW VIEWER once...from what I comprehend.

They confirmed that is the case.

Also they said that if AR's were filed against you, that you would get a warning and that they would not just automatically close down your SIM

MISC-1776 (Stop Openspace Price increase) @ 4128 votes

MISC-2727:

3350 @ 10May, 6am SL (778 votes behind)
3389 @ 11May, 6am SL
3440 @ 12May, 6am SL
3529 @ 12May, 6pm SL (599 votes behind)
3574 @ 13May, 8am SL (554 votes behind)

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Previous post said:

"Also they said that if AR's were filed against you, that you would get a warning and that they would not just automatically close down your SIM"

That had better be true for a while after the new rules take effect, and especially cause not everyone reads english.

So what does that mean if I never want to access adult sims? Do I need to use 1.23 at least once at some point just to opt out of the ability to access it?

Thanks As it stands currently it should not be too horrible for product vendors....

Agreed.. that congressman is just nuts.... I suppose some dealers might arrange RL deals through SL, but they would also do so via email, telephones, and pretty much any other form of telecommunications. OMG! All forms of communication should be banned on the basis they are occassionally used for crime! Lol....

I am not sure they understand the distinction between adult service providers (for which advertizing their services would pretty much automaticly define them as 'publicly providing adult services'), and adult object vendors, who are not supposed to be required to move.

If vendors of adult skins, toys, animations, etc are not allowed to advertize from mature land, then at the bare minimum they should be automatic candiates for a free move. The better solution would be to find ways they can advertise in a practical manner without having to move. Many such vendors also provide a lot of non-adult oriented product.

LOL.. Then you should read Anathem, if you haven't already, for +800 or so more pages. Not really an easy read but certainly, IMO, a good read.

http://www.amazon.com/Anathem-Neal-Stephenson/dp/0061474096/

An alternate practical manner to advertise:

An additional advertising only web site implemented through the Xstreet "Mature Content" web site using the same check box system already on Xstreet for mature content. (and not effected by the new in world search filters)

The site would not sell anything but give you a SLURL to the location.

Ads could actually be more extensive this way.
# Basic search on the site would give you a picture and some basic text plus the SLURL to the location.
# Click the ad for more details would bring up a page similar to current Xstreet product pages contain more text and additional pictures.
# functioning very similarly to the way Xstreet does but simply providing a SLURL to in world locations and a note to what type of region it is in.

The ads will of course be CHARGED FOR &
LL CAN MAKE MORE MONEY <---- <<< ATTENTION LINDENS >>>> $$$
while also providing a Solution to one of the problems the "AO" program creates!
In fact with the additional functions the site may generate a lot of ads.
(More $$$$) I can even see a possible demand for PG ads.
Not to mention Adult places wanting more extensive detailed ads.

They can add a button to launch it in the internal browser window.
Or alternately an additional search tab.

Separately it could simply be search form the web.
# The web site it self would filter for mature using the Currently in use Xstreet mature content CheckBox.
# While the viewer it self would prevent people for actually TPing to sites they are not enabled for

I would suggest a sub section on the existing Xstreet site accessible that way.
A link on the SL website & an "In Viewer" link to it. And ads for the site in world.


$$$ Come on LL I just handed you another way to charge for something and address a problem at the same time. $$$


Note to any one thinking handing this to LL is a bad idea:
An independent site will never get enough in world penetration anyway,
LL can see that it does especially if they are charging for it.


PS. If the Lindens want more details I can spell it out for then step by step!

since its the RC thread and I have yelled complained and tryed to get my point across.. I will say this the Client is slow rez, somehow the AV skin looks less real, how do you describe it it looks real Orange/yellow? maybe its just me...

Is the Adult search supposed to be Grayed out? if I am a Premium, as well as Aristotle verified? WTF!!!! Ok I found the check box in edit Pref.. how are new users going to find that??? what after a year or 2 in SL if they last longer than a day?


What a mess

PG content only search>bukake // yeah LL you got it fixed real well

Yeah that is what I have been saying for awhile now but many people seem to think their current number of visitors and customers will sustain them while new people trickle in after they have jumped through all the hoops to be able to see adult search results.

The last brown bag meeting I listened to made it sound like they do not even want people trying to skirt the keyword restrictions by advertising adult content or activities with non-adult words on mature land. I needed a brown bag after listening to it.

Thanks but not a star, just another customer that is determined to let people see outside of LL's closed servers just what a cock up this is turning into when people agree with this move and want to help LL move forward for the benefit of us all.

We were lucky SLapt.me was being developed into an SL resource in the background atm and the space was free on one of our servers to accommodate the wiki. It is good to have all the information in one place as people can then see pattens emerging as more information gets stored

Its something I am sure someone else would have done if they had the time and the space available as long as people continue to promote the wiki then it has a chance of working as an archive, now and in the future

The list can grow as people add to it, we have 800Gb disk space on the server and I can add more as I need

After the Baroque Cycle got a flat tire? After having Stephenson show off his tin ear in Cryptonomicon? No. No. No. No. No.

I've already read Riddley Walker and Feersum Endjinn and the Book of the New Sun. I have taysted the sult and the savor of air kind and sport of toasted language and roasted etymologies of future deviant mistaken descendants of English, I don't need to watch Stephenson stumble through the same territory.

I wouldn't underestimate the power of an independent site and not getting enough in world exposure especially if that site has an altruistic approach to the problems we are seeing here and offers a viable alternative to what LL currently offers while not being profit driven, more a case of a cost covering exercise, (because it's core business is elsewhere and can subsidize it while it grows for as long as is needed) while putting the needs of its users first and foremost and recognizing that the customer is king, because without them the business is dead in the water. Also it knows that by letting the customers help shape it and initiating changes that the customers request because it sees that the customers want something they can help shape and help grow, while the owners recognize that organic growth is far better than forcing their standards on the customers.

I think when that opportunity presents itself people will flock to it in droves as they will feel that they own a stake in it and it will spread virally without problem I feel

Heya all Tails here,

Just saying im totally against it mainly not for my reasons but for the masses of people who are against it which you seem to be oblivious to(i wont say everyone because there are some people for it, like the teen grid who dont actually see that it wont make a difference and they have it better over there than they will here, many of those grieving tools are sex related, i.e the sex particle spammers xD) but i do have a suggestion which could work well for us all.

My suggestion is to(if you do decide to go ahead with it) instead of making all of your paying customers(or most of) try to age verify on the so called "adult" grid how about you make it so the teens hafto make "teen" accounts which can let them only go to the places which you think are acceptable for them, this idea stops all of your paying customers from leaving and all of the teens from getting too distraught from what you want to 'protect' them from, i know i might seem like all the other complaining residents who you seemed to take no interest in but i would like to see something being done so my "favourite until this change" game still live on, feel free to IM me ingame any of you who wish to talk, this is my two and a half cents, thanks for listening!

<3 Tails Wirefly <3 proud maingrid resident(would like to keep it this way)

P.s: happy birthday SecondLife wewt!

I am happy to see people spreading the URL around and they are taking the time to register and record their signature to the letter and I hope that it continues to grow

Will it achieve anything? I doubt it but it puts the support against the plan as it now stands firmly in the public arena as the spiders are now finding the site and registering it in their search engines.

Its nice to see how many people are concerned about these plans as they are presented by LL currently and I hope a few of those that have now signed up with the wiki maybe start to add their input to it.

Those that are contributing to the pages and helping it grow are being made admins for the wiki as it was put there for everyone here and is a joint effort and I personally would like to thank those that are correcting my mistakes and turning the pages into a readable format

you might like to consider putting a note somewhere of how to sign. As a non wiki user I had to go back to the post with the instructions.

I have put the instructions there now thanks for pointing it out

http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/An_Open_Letter_to_Linden_Lab





Just checked and I don't see the instructions on that page are you sure you pushed the "make it so" button? I don't trust this new fangled technology.

If people are behaving normally with this, your stats should be telling you that most people only go to one page, so they're unlikely to dig around to find the instructions the page itself doesn't actually mention anywhere that you can sign it. To someone who has the link only it looks like a static page.

you might like to consider putting a banner at the top of the homepage pointing people to it as well as putting a specific link in the navigation bar. (you know, something like "sign the open letter"