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RC Questions

Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
05-12-2009 11:54
From: Brenda Connolly
Is there any particular reason why we NEED this feature?
Well, I can tell you one case where I would certainly use the ability to check the mini-map to see who some of those map dots are.

I have a quarter sim. I have several rooms set aside in various locations in that sim for "privacy" when the members of our household might want to get intimate with another household member or a guest. Some are bedrooms. One area is an indoor hot tub and social area. Another area is merely an indoor workroom for building stuff. If I am in the skybox at 3000 meters up, and I see what may be a single dot or may be two dots down on the ground, I can use this feature to see who that is, without having to "peek through the window" and see what they are actually doing. If it is two people that I am on close terms with, and I know they wouldn't mind the intrusion, I might then consider sending an IM to one of them and asking if I might join them. Or if it is a resident and a guest that I don't know, or more particularly a guest that I DO know and I don't want to be around, I can leave them alone and stay well away from that area.

Without being able to check the map dots to see who is who, my only way of knowing is to TP to somewhere nearby, and cam through the walls to peek at them. Personally, I would rather just know the names.
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
05-12-2009 11:56
From: DanielRavenNest Noe
Having read this story I have a theory that seems to explain what's going on:



Here is the theory:

What Linden Labs is doing is a *show* to satisfy the government.

They will be able to say "Hey look, we moved the porn to this area that only adults can get to, and put a porn filter in our search system".

Obviously, they cannot tell us in public that it's only a show. But it does seem to fit their actions and subtle hints, and the proof would be in how they act in the future:

- Only moving the most obvious of sex businesses to Ursula
- Removing obvious words from search
- Putting in stricter community standards

Then:

- Not caring that verification is easy to get around
- Not really enforcing gaming of search terms, or placement of adult content

It still will hurt some customers, but this is a "lesser of two evils" situation for them compared to government regulation.

I would like to believe this theory, cause it means the Linden staff are not bad guys out to get us.



Unfortunately, while that scenario fits some of the facts, I doubt that this is all "Wink, wink, Nudge, nudge, Say no more, say no more". :(

I think that they *really* think that they *are* doing something about it, and that it's something *brilliant*. Which is why I'm waiting for the train wreck and hollering "hey! wait a minute!" in the only forum they provide for it.

They claim that it's still *very* early days, so they don't have a final policy to announce in-world. Well, if it's *that* early, then it's early enough to implement some radical changes to the plan. If it's too late for that, then it's past time to let the rest of SL know about the changes and get their input on details like what words go into the search filters.

You can't have it both ways, I think.

^V^
Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
05-12-2009 11:58
From: Brenda Connolly
Yes, Ensign, I do find Adult Content.....fascinating.


/me stands inches from you, looking steadily into your eyes.

To fail to explore a topic of such interest would be highly illogical.
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Lindal Kidd
Hypatia Meili
Tilting at Windmills? :p
Join date: 2 Aug 2007
Posts: 149
05-12-2009 12:02
From: Blondin Linden
A MotD is hopefully in the works. What we want to wait for is a clearer, finalized Definitions article and FAQ sheet to be able to point people to.
Blondin,

Please see that somebody is also working on updating the knowledbase,FAQs and the link on the accounts page for verification these all lead to info on Aristotle only the other option need to be addressed.



Also:
There is also still NO Ticket option for "BASIC ACCOUNT" Holders to submit a ticket for "BROKEN VERIFICATION", whether Aristotle or other forms.

Unofficial ticket types are ignored
The closest ticket type is Manual Verification.
People submitting such tickets are requested to send:
"Hard Copy" copys of "Actual RL Documents".
This is unacceptable!
And incidentally defeats the whole purpose of making other types of verification available.

Somebody Needs to address this Immediately.
Unless LL really does not care about basic accounts at all.
In which case they should say so.
As so -> "Only paid accounts are guaranteed to get verified!"
If this is NOT the case then it NEEDS to be FIXED!
Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
05-12-2009 12:08
From: Hypatia Meili
Somebody Needs to address this Immediately

Really? Why? They're good at ignoring anything they don't want to address or deal with or even acknowledge the existance of. What incentive do they have to change?


And, as an aside since I'm posting here anyway, I sorta wish people would cut Blondin a little more slack. Yes, he's not horribly helpful (sorry, Blondin) but he's likely just doing what he's told and is simply a mouthpiece for the man.
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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
05-12-2009 12:09
From: Argent Stonecutter
You know there's full-sim avatar radars using temp-rez scanner proxies, right?


yes I do, the drone scans are not as widely used as the basic radar script.

From: Ceera Murakami
Well, I can tell you one case where I would certainly use the ability to check the mini-map to see who some of those map dots are.

I have a quarter sim. I have several rooms set aside in various locations in that sim for "privacy" when the members of our household might want to get intimate with another household member or a guest. Some are bedrooms. One area is an indoor hot tub and social area. Another area is merely an indoor workroom for building stuff. If I am in the skybox at 3000 meters up, and I see what may be a single dot or may be two dots down on the ground, I can use this feature to see who that is, without having to "peek through the window" and see what they are actually doing. If it is two people that I am on close terms with, and I know they wouldn't mind the intrusion, I might then consider sending an IM to one of them and asking if I might join them. Or if it is a resident and a guest that I don't know, or more particularly a guest that I Do know and I don't want to be around, I can leave them alone and stay well away from that area.

Without being able to check the map dots to see who is who, my only way of knowing is to TP to somewhere nearby, and cam through the walls to peek at them. Personally, I would rather just know the names.



whereas I would make your land group only to control access, then it doesn't matter who the dots are. you can see who is online through the group and make an overture. That's called respecting private space.

I for my sins have encountered sociopathic low lives down the years and anything that makes their life easier is not ok by me.

Currently though I have workrooms above my various shops as I keep running out of prims in my home/workshop. The last thing in the world I need is for grid hunters to see me on the map and harass me because they can't find the box or to have the no-lifers come to the sim see my dot and reach out.

I get enough attention seekers as it is without adding more because they see my name and have the bright idea of sending me a "hi".

Since this adult stuff started my IMs are being capped again because so many people want advice or solace. So much so that I've had to start using busy mode for the first time ever to get anything done (and that's another design failure as I've discovered).

so I'm not in favour of anything that reduces what little privacy I have.
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Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
So long, Darien
05-12-2009 12:09
I'm sorry that it had to come to this for you. I wish you well in the future, and I hope that you find something else to take the place of SL. Keep being creative, keep doing the things (and people :) ) you love, and be happy, okay?

And if you find something half as good as SL, pop back for a bit and let us know, okay? You might get a lot of company in the next few months :)


Take care,

^V^
Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
05-12-2009 12:10
Do we really need pages of posts about scanners/radars here?

Sheesh..
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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
05-12-2009 12:18
From: Meade Paravane
Do we really need pages about posts about scanners/radars here?

Sheesh..


well, it makes a change from people whining about content separation when it's obvious LL aren't going to change their strategic view, while ignoring the fact that we should be campaigning to make the logistics of the move more bearable by making them show some goodwill - which is where they're showing willingness to be a little flexible.

this thread ran out of purpose around a week ago. it's now just about sitting around and chatting.
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
05-12-2009 12:20
Spamming a thread because you've got nothing else to say is a crappy excuse.
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
05-12-2009 12:22
From: Meade Paravane
And, as an aside since I'm posting here anyway, I sorta wish people would cut Blondin a little more slack. Yes, he's not horribly helpful (sorry, Blondin) but he's likely just doing what he's told and is simply a mouthpiece for the man.


I'm happy to cut him some slack when 1) he cuts us some slack on the doubletalk and spin, and 2) does his damn job.

Now, if his "damn job" is to BE a spinmeister, he deserves ZERO slack. If he doesn't like that, he needs to talk to his superiors and get them to change his job description and/or let someone else take the heat.
Hypatia Meili
Tilting at Windmills? :p
Join date: 2 Aug 2007
Posts: 149
05-12-2009 12:24
From: Kalderi Tomsen
When I am working I have both the minimap and my radar HUD up to see who is close to me and where they are. When I am not working I tend to have the minimap up so I know who could be watching me and how private I currently am (or at least be fairly certain).

So when this becomes "official" I will be turning off my radar HUD, yes.
Me too! Exactly!
Lat Lovenkraft
Registered User
Join date: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 8
From the Horses Mouth (or close to it)
05-12-2009 12:27
I read a lot of the posts here but was confused unlcear about the new rplocy as it relates to PRIVATE ESTATES so I called support and this is what they told me in plain English.

At some unspecified date in the near future:

1) I will have to download the new viewer that they say EVERYONE will be forced to use.

2) There will be checkboxes to ask wha ttype o content you want to see: PG, MATURE, ADULT:

3) Only with the new viewer will I be able to set my PRIVATE ESTATE to ADULT.

4) Anyone who did not indicate they want to access ADULT content will be unable to teleport into my SIM. They would recieve a message explaining why they could not teleport into my region.

5) A member must become AGE VERIFIED in order to select the ADULT check box.

6) AGE VERIFICATION can happen in 1 of 2 ways.
a) Payment INFO on FILE or
b) Answer some questions where you state that you are of a certain age and wish to apropriate for ADULT content viewing

I am not holding them to any of the above and am aware that the details could be changed but this is the gist of what I got.

I did not ask about advertising or search words.
Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
05-12-2009 12:29
From: Lasher Oh
Can anyone make sense of any of that ???? If you can please share

^L^


Wel, as near as i can figure, Cyn is saying "I don't know, but I need to *sound* like i do, but I also have to *say* I don't know so nobody will hold me to any of the crap I'm spewing"

:)

What I get from it is Cyn has an impression of how things will work, but she is aware that she doesn't know what the details are yet, because they're not *done* with them. She want to reassure everyone about land prices on mainland mature, and present as open and flexible "move to Ursula" process as possible, but no commit to anything.

Personally, I gagged on the amount of "corp speak" that was thrown around, even by some of the questioners. I mean, when did everyone start talking like a mail-order MBA?

The one that really killed me was "Least impactful" :)

^V^
Hypatia Meili
Tilting at Windmills? :p
Join date: 2 Aug 2007
Posts: 149
05-12-2009 12:30
From: Meade Paravane
Do we really need pages of posts about scanners/radars here?

Sheesh..
OK, I'll post about something else now.

I like the new PieChart tho it will take some getting used to.
I never liked the existing arrangement.
;)
Wynochee LeShelle
Polykontexturalist
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 658
05-12-2009 12:31
From: Meade Paravane
Do we really need pages of posts about scanners/radars here?

Sheesh..


Not really. I agree. But since the Laboratory implemented an ava-scanner and voyeur-radar into the next viewer...

On the other hand: basicly I feel unscanned in my rl home. Basicly people can think about my ava what they want and maybe it doesnt matter if they see my ava self-barbecueing himself at a dolcett-like location, while I am in my real life kitchen, preparing some austrian-style sandwiches or an italian pizza before I move my pixelpuppet to a nice concert, somewhere on the grid, listening relaxed music and enjoying my dinner.

But also basicly I don't need popping up chat-windows while I am in high concentrated building mode or suddenly on my feets landing curious noses, while I maybe move a 467 prim construction, or so. Means: the idea, to see avatar names on green dots, is a nerve killer, if the wrong person has the idea to use this "feature" for whatever.

But in general discussions about scanners are boring. Yes.
Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
05-12-2009 12:34
From: Argent Stonecutter
So basically having it on voice instead of text wasn't just a bad idea for us, it was a bad idea for THEM as well?



Yep, yet another example of LL refusing to admit that their fly is unzipped, even *after* they keep stepping on their Linden. :)

^V^
Valerius Constantine
*I* am adult content!
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 777
05-12-2009 12:36
From: Waterstar Eilde
Kira, this is a great open letter. Have you sent it to M, Jack, Cyn & Co, or would you consider doing so? If you would, I'm sure I wouldn't be alone in being happy to add my name to a postscript in support - rather like a petition, really.

Or maybe you could send it, and we could all IM our support - no, wait, their IMs would get capped!

Seriously, hands up if you'd be prepared to be a signatory to this.



I'll sign.

And we should use a notecard- To *everyone* with the last name of linden

^V^
Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
05-12-2009 12:36
Sorry about the scanner thing. Got carried away while I was at the keys.

To bring it a little back on topic, I've been wondering... discounting obvious mistakes and contradictory statements from various Lindens, the actual developments I've seen since the original announcements are:

1) The draft version of the PG/Mature/Adult guidelines has changed to be *more* restrictive. (It is promised that it will change further, but there is little reason to believe we know anything about *what* it will change into).

2) People are given an unspecified "longer than 9 days" to move (and possibly split) their parcel. It has become more clear that it's *entirely* unclear who must move, who'll get it for free, and who has to pay for it.

3) The word "Gor" *may* be removed from the restricted words list.

These are the only actual changes I see from the original announcement which haven't at some point been overturned by one Linden or another. I may have blinked and missed some, though.
Hypatia Meili
Tilting at Windmills? :p
Join date: 2 Aug 2007
Posts: 149
05-12-2009 12:37
From: Lat Lovenkraft
~snip~
6) AGE VERIFICATION can happen in 1 of 2 ways.
a) Payment INFO on FILE or
b) Answer some questions where you state that you are of a certain age and wish to apropriate for ADULT content viewing
~snip~
The problem is both methods can fail, you can PASS Verification, but it does NOT Work In World.and then you find the only way to submit a ticket on it is to be PIU & an ACTIVE "Premium Account". :eek:
Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
05-12-2009 12:41
From: Talarus Luan
I'm happy to cut him some slack when 1) he cuts us some slack on the doubletalk and spin, and 2) does his damn job.

Now, if his "damn job" is to BE a spinmeister, he deserves ZERO slack. If he doesn't like that, he needs to talk to his superiors and get them to change his job description and/or let someone else take the heat.

He's one of the very few people at LL that will even acknowledge SL has residents any more. I just think that being insulting to the one guy who will talk to us is productive.


Blondin, I've asked before but don't think I got an answer. How involved with the decisions about adult content are you? Do you have any strings to pull here or are you just a parrot? Not asking for strings to be pulled, just wondering how you fit into all this...
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Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times :)
Join date: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,870
05-12-2009 12:42
From: Valerius Constantine
I'll sign.

And we should use a notecard- To *everyone* with the last name of linden

^V^


http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/An_Open_Letter_to_Linden_Lab

Kira's letter is here with a growing list of signatures please pass the url around :)
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
05-12-2009 12:46
From: Valerius Constantine
Personally, I gagged on the amount of "corp speak" that was thrown around, even by some of the questioners. I mean, when did everyone start talking like a mail-order MBA?

Bulshytt is the new black.

From: Neal Stephenson

Short Definition
Bulshytt: Speech (typically but not necessarily commercial or political) that employs euphemism, convenient vagueness, numbing repetition, and other such rhetorical subterfuges to create the impression that something has been said.

Long Definition
Bulshytt: (1) In Fluccish of the late Praxic Age and early Reconstitution, a derogatory term for false speech in general, esp. knowing and deliberate falsehood or obfuscation. (2) In Orth, a more technical and clinical term denoting speech (typically but not necessarily commercial or political) that employs euphemism, convenient vagueness, numbing repetition, and other such rhetorical subterfuges to create the impression that something has been said. (3) According to the Knights of Saunt Halikaarn, a radical order of the 2nd Millennium A.R., all speech and writings of the ancient Sphenics; the Mystagogues of the Old Mathic Age; Praxic Age commercial and political institutions; and, since the Reconstitution, anyone they deemed to have been infected by Procian thinking. Their frequent and loud use of this word to interrupt lectures, dialogs, private conversations, etc., exacerbated the divide between Procian and Halikaarnian orders that characterized the mathic world in the years leading up to the Third Sack. Shortly before the Third Sack, all of the Knights of Saunt Halikaarn were Thrown Back, so little more is known about them (their frequent appearance in Sæcular entertainments results from confusion between them and the Incanters).

Usage note: In the mathic world, if the word is suddenly shouted out in a chalk hall or refectory it brings to mind the events associated with sense (3) and is therefore to be avoided. Spoken in a moderate tone of voice, it takes on sense (2), which long ago lost any vulgar connotations it may once have had. In the Sæculum it is easily confused with sense (1) and deemed a vulgarity or even an obscenity. It is inherent in the mentality of extramuros bulshytt-talkers that they are more prone than anyone else to taking offense (or pretending to) when their bulshytt is pointed out to them. This places the mathic observer in a nearly impossible position. One is forced either to use this “offensive” word and be deemed a disagreeable person and as such excluded from polite discourse, or to say the same thing in a different way, which means becoming a purveyor of bulshytt oneself and thereby lending strength to what one is trying to attack. The latter quality probably explains the uncanny stability and resiliency of bulshytt. Resolving this dilemma is beyond the scope of this Dictionary and is probably best left to hierarchs who make it their business to interact with the Sæculum.

–THE DICTIONARY, 4th edition, A.R. 3000

/me looks around with a scowl, daring anybody to even think about dissing Neal.
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Kalderi Tomsen
Nomad Extraordinaire!
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 888
05-12-2009 12:50
From: Lat Lovenkraft
I read a lot of the posts here but was confused unlcear about the new rplocy as it relates to PRIVATE ESTATES so I called support and this is what they told me in plain English.
Lat, this mirrors pretty much what we have been told throughout these threads, so it's good to get some sort of confirmation that is consistent.

The only semi-nitpick is the use of "Age Verification" - they use the Aristotle system for that (which is the second option you mentioned). They are saying that in order to access Adult land, you need to be "Account Verified" which means either age verified or the first option you mentioned.

...although LL themselves aren't being terribly consistent in the use of this.

Like I said, a nitpick, but the difference is important in one regard: If you have chosen in your Estate Management tools the option to only allow Age Verified people in, then the PIOF/PIU requirement isn't valid - you will restrict yourself to visitors who have verified using Aristotle.

From: someone
1) I will have to download the new viewer that they say EVERYONE will be forced to use.
My understanding is that anyone who wants to access Adult content will need this viewer (which will be version 1.23 - 1.22 is the current "official" viewer release number). others who aren't interested can keep using older viewers.

If you would like a glance at what this is going to look like you can download the "Release Candidate" client, or "RC" as it is known. This installs along with your regular one (so you can easily switch back and forth). The new boxes are in this version, as I understand it.
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Kazimir MacMoragh
Registered User
Join date: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 34
05-12-2009 12:50
From: Meade Paravane
He's one of the very few people at LL that will even acknowledge SL has residents any more. I just think that being insulting to the one guy who will talk to us is productive.


Blondin, I've asked before but don't think I got an answer. How involved with the decisions about adult content are you? Do you have any strings to pull here or are you just a parrot? Not asking for strings to be pulled, just wondering how you fit into all this...


That may be true, but it's getting harder and harder for me to find any sympathy for Blondin when in one post (#1558) he tells someone that he dosn't see any reason for them to have to move their adult oriented business to the new contenent, and then 11 posts later (#1569) he indicates that if someone wants to use adult terms to advertise then they do have to move.

Now yes, it is true that his first response was to a question that didn't *specifically* ask about advertising the business, but to not presume a business owner would want to advertise their existence when telling them they don't have to move is either terribly short-sited or just plain underhanded.
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