Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions
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Waterstar Eilde
Registered User
Join date: 12 May 2007
Posts: 404
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04-13-2009 08:09
From: Brenda Connolly It doesn't. And when the Aristotle scheme was introduced 2 years or so ago, and we asked about CC verification that is the answer LL gave us as to why it wasn't sufficient. We've been asking what has changed but no answers have been forthcoming. Repeating verbatim JP Linden's response at the Educators' brown bag (and I accept that other things have been said since): "The second part, ah, second component of the initiative is going to be an adult verification or age verification method where anybody that wants to get IN to the adult regions is going to have to go through either our - the age verification solution that we’ve been using for some time on a voluntary basis, or have a payment method on file, and if we could think of any other credible way to have sort of a proxy for age verification although we know it’s not infallible we would put that in place as well." In his eyes at least, making people go through Aristotle hasn't been ruled out, and if LL can think of an extra way to age verify, they will. I suspect the payment method part will possibly be tied to some other measure, like how long you've been in SL, or level of expenditure, or some other straw they grasp at - or perhaps it will only be used pragmatically in the early stages, then abandoned for something more 'meaningful'. The fact that Lindens can't get their act together to come out with the same answer adds to the obfuscation.
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Wynochee LeShelle
Polykontexturalist
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 658
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Are they too stupid?
04-13-2009 08:36
Additional it seems that enterprises, educationals, corporates, the whole .com, .org, .edu - scene is not adult enough to go to the land-store, simple and easy - and create their own clean paradise wherever on the grid, like we all do and did, but no: Mr. and Mrs. Linden have the idea to try the Milosevic and Karadzic way - to literaly bomb us out of our properties and kognitive freedom zones.
It is like an clean up ethnics/lifestyles plan, like we saw it in former Yugoslavia, where people were told: go or die!
Here we are told: go to Ursula, or deconstruct yourself or leave SL:
On the other hand, the positive discrimination (while we are negative discriminated) of .com, .org, .edu should be a warning to them: LL tells them with that move, that they (the .com, .org, .edu scene) are too stupid to make their own claims/aeras/realms/sims with their own plan, money, efforts and creativity.
No one hinders them to do what we all did: to search, to order, to buy (literal: rent) and then: building and being whatever.
And since Don Phillipo De La Burning Money, Ex Commandante of the mess, is enthusiastic creating personal firewalls for them, they should be happy to be surrounded by their personal firewall then, without trampling on our nervs, and without ripping off what we pay and own and what we are.
We do repeat that like a buddhistic prayer wheel, day by day by day. We have here all the same rights and the same obligations - so, the .com, .org, .edu freaks can integrate themselfs into that, or going elsewhere, or building 250 connected sims as an isolated Disney Continent. Not our beer, what they do or not. But what they do: not on our shoulders and not on our pockets and not against our freedom! No! We are no second class customers! Because we pay LL first class fees since years and years.
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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04-13-2009 08:38
From: Ordinal Malaprop Until recently, I don't believe that big-SL-investors-Amazon have been classifying everything even vaguely mentioned The Gays as "Adult". But they are now. And now I am boycotting Amazon - including S3, which must mean you are using some client from two years ago. I don't pay for S3.  Boycott = not give Amazon any of my money for any of their products. LL pays for S3, probably with some of my money, but it's a situation I can't do much about directly. I just don't buy anything from Amazon; I am a non-customer of theirs; a "never-customer".
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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More complications!
04-13-2009 08:42
Looks like LL will have to block access to Korea, or require all Korean users verify: From: http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2009/04/youtube-korea-respects-privacy.html Korean Internet users now have to submit their resident registration codes, the Korean equivalent of social security numbers, and names, before posting files or commenting on Web sites with more than 100,000 daily visitors, including YouTube.
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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04-13-2009 08:50
From: Waterstar Eilde Repeating verbatim JP Linden's response at the Educators' brown bag (and I accept that other things have been said since):
"The second part, ah, second component of the initiative is going to be an adult verification or age verification method where anybody that wants to get IN to the adult regions is going to have to go through either our - the age verification solution that we’ve been using for some time on a voluntary basis, or have a payment method on file, and if we could think of any other credible way to have sort of a proxy for age verification although we know it’s not infallible we would put that in place as well."
In his eyes at least, making people go through Aristotle hasn't been ruled out, and if LL can think of an extra way to age verify, they will. I suspect the payment method part will possibly be tied to some other measure, like how long you've been in SL, or level of expenditure, or some other straw they grasp at - or perhaps it will only be used pragmatically in the early stages, then abandoned for something more 'meaningful'. The fact that Lindens can't get their act together to come out with the same answer adds to the obfuscation. I tend to think the CC dodge is just a way to keep the masses from exiting too soon, and totally crippling the SL economy. Get Pornsylvania up and running, get people comfy over there and then yank the SexGen (tm) Rug out from everybody, perhaps with a conveniently released scandal over some kid seeing the cartoon nasty and becoming a serial rapist, and it's "Sorry folks, but the Payment Info method just isn't enough. We tried, but our idiot lawyers say we have to do it this way."
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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04-13-2009 08:52
From: Brenda Connolly I tend to think the CC dodge is just a way to keep the masses from exiting too soon, and totally crippling the SL economy. Or it's simply a way to get more people to pony up payment information, and theoretically, more people to use it.
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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04-13-2009 08:52
From: Talarus Luan I don't pay for S3.  Boycott = not give Amazon any of my money for any of their products. LL pays for S3, probably with some of my money, but it's a situation I can't do much about directly. I just don't buy anything from Amazon; I am a non-customer of theirs; a "never-customer". Same here. The last SL client I've downlaoded was 1.19 so it's also been awhile since I've downlaoded anything from them.
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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04-13-2009 08:53
From: Milla Janick Or it's simply a way to get more people to pony up payment information, and theoretically, more people to use it. That too, again getting them hooked into life in Pornodelphia, making it harder to resist further data mining...I mean verification.
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
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Wynochee LeShelle
Polykontexturalist
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 658
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Oh...
04-13-2009 09:20
From: Argent Stonecutter Looks like LL will have to block access to Korea, or require all Korean users verify: http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2009/04/youtube-korea-respects-privacy.htmlKorean Internet users now have to submit their resident registration codes, the Korean equivalent of social security numbers, and names, before posting files or commenting on Web sites with more than 100,000 daily visitors, including YouTube. This planet becomes more and more a penal colony in Kafka style. It seems there is a subtile political underground world-war going on since long, a comprehensive battle between fake-ascetic-heavy-weight-bigot-surveillance society-lifestyles against leight-weighted-floating-playful-easy-going-freedom-loving-lifestyles. Steel against flowers, so to speak...like cutting grassland... Brutal... And Linden Lab is on the wrong side of the line. Bad, bad.
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Waterstar Eilde
Registered User
Join date: 12 May 2007
Posts: 404
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04-13-2009 09:24
From: Milla Janick Or it's simply a way to get more people to pony up payment information, and theoretically, more people to use it. From: Brenda Connolly That too, again getting them hooked into life in Pornodelphia, making it harder to resist further data mining...I mean verification. Agreed and Agreed <sigh> I'm sure I wasn't born to be this cynical...
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Waterstar Eilde
Registered User
Join date: 12 May 2007
Posts: 404
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04-13-2009 09:36
From: Argent Stonecutter Looks like LL will have to block access to Korea, or require all Korean users verify: I believe one reason the Korean Government is pushing this requirement across the board is because of concern over large numbers of young people getting 'hooked' on being online. More than one person has died in the past couple of years as a result of non-stop game-playing, and I think it's partly an attempt to stop people spending too much time online. (I think I'm right in saying that there are more people involved in commercially levelling-up gamers in Korea than in any other country in the world, although China might have caught up).
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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04-13-2009 09:43
From: Waterstar Eilde I believe one reason the Korean Government is pushing this requirement across the board is because of concern over large numbers of young people getting 'hooked' on being online. More than one person has died in the past couple of years as a result of non-stop game-playing, and I think it's partly an attempt to stop people spending too much time online. Virtual Karoshi? Those wacky Koreans, always trying to catch up with Japan.
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Moon Metty
Registered User
Join date: 23 May 2008
Posts: 12
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04-13-2009 09:49
Blondin, here's a question you may want to "identify":
Is there a plan B in case this program proves to be impossible to implement, due to organizational, technical or other reasons (in other words: is there an exit-strategy)?
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Shockwave Yareach
Registered User
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 370
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04-13-2009 10:26
Rather than an Exit Strategy, it would be wisest if they had a Do Not Enter strategy. As in they don't enter this doomed and self-destructive effort. Even if you have some secret law being pointed at you, first, realize that creating a G-rated continent and requiring verification to go to the rest of the grid accomplishes the same thing you are after now, only better. And also note that it's generally accepted that secret laws are unconstitutional and unenforcable since taking the matter to court exposes the secret law.
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Skatoulaki Nakamori
Registered User
Join date: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 65
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04-13-2009 11:15
From: Lord Sullivan I have been invited to the next brown bag meeting on the above date. I have asked a few people here for some input as JP asked in his email to me if there were any questions to be discussed i could send them in advance. Therefore i have sent the following email to him and will also bring them up again at the meeting if no answers are forthcoming. Thanks for offering to be a "voice for the people" - it is sometimes easier for one person to be heard rather than a crowd From: someone 1) What is the The timeline - including dates? I.e.: Confirmed policy released, baselined process for the move, list open, Ursula open for Land selection, confirmation of land swap, swap dates etc.
2) How is Linden Lab going to advise everyone that the list is open and how will you determine priority for land selection and how do Linden Lab expect us to move a full sim and stay in business in 9 days, is their a chance that this time of 9 days will be extended?
3) What will be the process for getting a plot reviewed and whether Linden lab will do a buyback of land if people affected chose not to move?
4) When will Linden Lab implement full age verification for the new continent or can you assure that PIOF and PIU as previously stated will be enough for account verification
5) When You said this in the Educational Brown Bag meeting: "and we’re also going to create a separate PG designation which is going to be an option for anyone that wants what you’d think of as a truly clean somewhat more maybe isolated experience", were you referring to cleaning up existing PG or creating a new level of squeaky clean PG? And to follow on from that
If the former, (a) how does LL propose to achieve that with Mature and PG parcels right Next door to each other? And (B) given that countless PG homes contain a sex bed, how does LL Propose to enforce PG status effectively?
If the latter, where are these new, squeaky clean PG parcels going to be? Will existing PG Be 'upgraded' to Mature to retain only three 'ratings', or will we have PG and super-PG?
6) When will LL stop all the rampant speculation by having one senior, informed Linden with Authority giving definitive answers? You don't need to analyse all the feedback to do that - This has obviously been in the pipeline for a long time, so you must already have reached Conclusions on some of these fundamental issues. Having the feeling that the right hand Doesn't know what the left is doing at the Lab doesn't inspire confidence, and we could be so Much more helpful if we felt we were getting a true picture of your plans ....SNIPPED.... I would ask if you could cut your questions down into single questions...i.e. break #2 into three separate questions: 1) How is Linden Lab going to advise everyone that the list is open? 2) How will LL determine priority for land selection? 3) Could the timeframe of 9 days to move be extended since it will create an undue hardship on many businesses (it will be nearly impossible to move a full sim and stay in business within a 9-day timeframe)? Same with #'s 3 and 4... Just an opinion...
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Skatoulaki Nakamori
Registered User
Join date: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 65
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04-13-2009 11:24
From: Brenda Connolly It doesn't. And when the Aristotle scheme was introduced 2 years or so ago, and we asked about CC verification that is the answer LL gave us as to why it wasn't sufficient. We've been asking what has changed but no answers have been forthcoming. What's changed? The management team...who obviously didn't review what the previous team said about this back then. Oops.
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Wynochee LeShelle
Polykontexturalist
Join date: 3 Feb 2007
Posts: 658
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Well done!
04-13-2009 11:36
Good luck, Lord Sullivan! May the force be with you! 
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Loopi Looby
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 3
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04-13-2009 11:51
I dont get the age verification thing....Why is it needed, we all clicked to confirm we were over 18 to gain access to the grid. If allowing people to avoid viewing activities they would rather not, surely you just need to ask people what range of things do you wish to see then filter the search results appropriately. Also i thing if lindens are serious about this they should provide a way to block people viewing inside out houses from adjacent parcels. If we have to have age verification can we also use it to open up part of the grid for online virtual gambling for those players that the age verification proves live in a country that allow such things?I want to feed my sploder addiction 
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Katheryne Helendale
(loading...)
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,187
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04-13-2009 12:26
From: Bambi Newall I'm sure OS can find some ways to work out the IP protection on Open Grid. It's not that hard to use standard encryption with a public key on the server and a private key by the user to encrypt the inventory. In fact, encryption key technology is so much more robust and distributable than relying on a central player like LL to guard it for you. You will retain all your IP rights even if LL is sold to someone else if your inventory is encrypted. http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/73234/
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Katheryne Helendale
(loading...)
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,187
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04-13-2009 14:22
From: Moon Metty Blondin, here's a question you may want to "identify": Is there a plan B in case this program proves to be impossible to implement, due to organizational, technical or other reasons (in other words: is there an exit-strategy)? Ummm, well, yes they do. It's simple, actually. LL goes ahead with this segregation idea, everything remotely adult goes away to Pornadelphia, age-verification processes fail, people cannot go to their homes, businesses cannot reach their customers, who cannot patronize most businesses. SL collapses in on itself, and LL pulls the plug. See? Simple!
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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
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04-13-2009 15:00
From: Katheryne Helendale Ummm, well, yes they do. It's simple, actually. LL goes ahead with this segregation idea, everything remotely adult goes away to Pornadelphia, age-verification processes fail, people cannot go to their homes, businesses cannot reach their customers, who cannot patronize most businesses. SL collapses in on itself, and LL pulls the plug. See? Simple! when governor linden takes the mainland most likely they'll just leave our stuff there, they're not really known for controlling the land they currently have. Unlike islands this land won't just disappear, so I would hope that they'll do a bulk return at worst. when they find that the verification doesn't work, depending on the impact and the outcry they'll lift the verification requirement until they can get it sorted. As its not a legislative requirement the date can be flexible.. but it does mean lots of disruption to the grid while they throw in code they hope will work. Of course the promise of not double billing us is a worry, I find it hard to believe they're capable of implementing that bit of code in the time. So rather than the issue of people not being able to get to your land, your biggest fear should be they up your tier and charge you for it. That is a question that hasn't been raised. How are they going to ensure that those on the list don't get hit? As customers we do have a right to that information, despite what they think.
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Satiated Desires: Toys for Grown Ups. Inworld: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Norf%20Haven/186/132/55 XSL: https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=77743&&sort=age&dir=asc Blog: http://satiateddesires.wordpress.com/
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Bambi Newall
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2008
Posts: 155
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04-13-2009 15:26
From: Katheryne Helendale http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/73234/ Well, that vulnerability in security is due to MD5 collision ONLY if they use the same MD5 hash is used as the hashing algorithm without rehashing to encrypt the data. The reason is that MD5 hashing creates an identifier code but that code is a many-to-one mapping, i.e., multiple data streams can encode into the SAME unique identifier code. That is how you can authenticate yourself as if you were the original signing authority because multiple signatures end up as the same authority signature. In other words, that signature code can be impersonated/authenticated as the original signer by some other signators, even though the MD5 code is still never cracked. But that does not mean all encryption are vulnerable to attack/impersonated. If you use other encryption algorithm, such as SHA-2, it is not crackable or impersonatable. Even if you use MD5 hashing algorithm for encryption, it is still secure if you don't re-use the same MD5 hash. The problem is that people are too lazy to change the hash, and re-use the same MD5 hash without changing it for different data that made it vulnerable to impersonation by someone with finite computing time. It does not mean encryption is useless or crackable. It just means MD5 hash is a lousy hash, and should be avoided in encryption. So your inventory IP can still be protected by encryption if they don't use MD5 hashing algorithm.
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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04-13-2009 15:33
From: Couldbe Yue when governor linden takes the mainland most likely they'll just leave our stuff there, they're not really known for controlling the land they currently have. Unlike islands this land won't just disappear, so I would hope that they'll do a bulk return at worst.
No, they'll leave it all, where it will sit for centuries, slowly being devoured by the elements. Future generations will eventually come across it and learn the horrible truth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb4eZ7Z5yk8
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
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Couldbe Yue
one unhappy customer
Join date: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 1,532
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04-13-2009 15:36
From: Bambi Newall Well, that vulnerability in security is due to MD5 collision ONLY if they use the same MD5 hash is used as the hashing algorithm without rehashing to encrypt the data.
*snip*
So your inventory IP can still be protected by encryption if they don't use MD5 hashing algorithm. /me sits back in awe. That's why I like this thread 
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Waterstar Eilde
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Join date: 12 May 2007
Posts: 404
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04-13-2009 15:45
From: Couldbe Yue /me sits back in awe. That's why I like this thread  Me too - I don't even begin to understand this stuff, yet I always read every word because I'm so impressed (and probably in the hope that some of it will sink in by osmosis!). 
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