Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

It's not to cover a home. It's to cover a small section of a person's backyard. If you want your entire home covered (um, why?) you'd need a bigger prim. This is to let even the smallest of parcels be able to have a privacy zone that they can turn on and off. Since you are inside and out of sight, outdoor sex is now indoors.

And camming inside is itself a violation, so you can turn the tables on the twits and AR them, if the Lindens don't do it for you first.

Hey, if my solution were 100% and managed to stop camming inside, I wouldn't be giving them away for 1L I'm a nice guy, but I'm not an idiot.

Where does it say that?

Particularly for an area that appears to be outside?

I sure hope nobody actually tries to depend on the invisiprim object-object occlusion effect for privacy. Especially since some people have to turn O-O occlusion off to work around video bugs.

Well, that's all up for interpretation

I agree! We don't know the background, or a plural of backgrounds. Was a try. In case a Linden were jumped on this, the reaction had maybe shown something between the lines.

Anyway. LL makes it easy to speculate. Some bonehard facts from them and no one would speculate.

It's all just corporate greed. WHY else would they let kids in, if that is in fact their intention? I first came to Second Life because it seemed interesting and I'd read Snow Crash and wanted to see if it was like that. When I got here, I found it the perfect place for an introvert with social anxiety (LOL!). What got me addicted was the insane creativity and freedom of expression everyone had.

Just a few short months ago, I was telling my husband how amazing it was to me that so many diverse people got along together so well in SL... I saw very little intolerance, very little judgment, very little "racism"... I started to realize that SL is a culture rather than a community - a big beautiful culture full of creative people and tolerant people and open-minded people, without borders, with less language barriers than RL... Yes, I visit the adult activity places (I practically LIVE at Hard Alley ) but it's not just the activities that keep me going back there - it's because that's where I have felt the most accepted, the least insecure, the most comfortable.

Part of the appeal too was that it's an adult world. Kids don't belong there. They have other places they can go online.

1) I'm sure we all do, at some point.
2) I hang around a gay community, because they seem to be the most friendly and open. (I'm straight, and openly say this)
3) It's supposed to be, but now letting teens in will ruin SL forever, let the adults play where the adults should be able to play.

Stripping leads to nudity rather often. Some Lindens see stripping as adult content. The difference would appear to be how one gets from A to B, but stripping where there's no AV sex going down is not in any way, shape or form extreme adult content.



LL are not The Borg, they don't think with one mind. Those original FAQ's that were posted were produced by Lindens another Linden then said "Whoa". We don't know what LL think as they haven't been able to agree amongst themselves what this policy is.



Based on what? We have business owners, landlords, content creators, consumers, premiums, non premiums, scripters, builders, how is it not representative?

We're all literate?

Come on...isn't it obvious? Simple nudity isn't Adult Content because the naturists have insisted for years and years that it "isn't about sex, it's about being open and natural." And society, by and large, agrees with them...even those who wouldn't be caught dead on a nude beach.

But the striptease has ALWAYS been sexual in nature. It's not the nudity alone, it's the titillation. The suggestive looks, the dance moves that mimic body motions during intercourse.

The purpose of the naturist's nudity is to get back to nature. The purpose of the stripper's nudity is to get the customer's rocks off (or to get a tip for doing so, or to get him excited enough he'll pay for a lapdance in a back room.)

However, I say that neither one is Adult Content. Both ought to be considered Mature, at most.

I see that similar. Only the blurry position of the Lindens is relative un-representative...

In opposite to that is the thread and the other threads (meanwhile closed) very representative.

If LL has crusaders on board i.e. enterprises, governments, and educational institutions, other individuals and groups - then they are hidden under deck so far, or marginal, or non-existant.

Blondin is the steersman on their ghostship, but he is not the captain and has often no clue what the compass says. He comes a bit spacy over and needs often to ask the other brownbag officers about what he can tell us here and what better not.

Only one canonball poped up so far, but did no damage, was just a breeze. Nany. Maybe an accident or an agent provocateur, or just on her own trip.

I would be not surprised, if the whole population would be informed about what the ghostship has on board, that we would have a 80% resistance against the one boat small royal marine of captain Kingdon.

Ahoy

I thank you for giving me valuable information like this. It is good to learn something new each day. I knew that placing the orbs around the mature theme and restricting the flying was not a guaranteed solution, but a way to deter a few from being there. I have found that if someone really wants into the area, there are many ways I do not know of that they can use. We also monitor the people in our sim and remove any that give us the indication that they should not be there. Again not foolproof, but better than doing nothing. Will go read more on the link.

If there are areas of our sim that are questionable with what ever the new rules and restrictions are we will adjust accordingly.

I agree. But you have to ask what assumptions are they making about sex and violence in the first place?

Is it because they are unsightly, or is it because they think see those activities will corrupt your mind, or it is not the norm, or any other reasons they can think of, have they ever address their assumptions?

If they think they are really that pure to convert SL to a wholesome place for family, then they need to acknowledge that a wholesome family is one that you sit down with your kids and do a mother-child or father-child one-on-one talk to teach them what sex is, and what violence is, frankly and openly, instead of pushing them underground and talk dirty in the locker room in the fictional "adult" area.

Pretending that you can only talk about sex in bees is not only naive but plain ignorant, because worker bees are sterile and never could have sex.

To pretend that violence is evil is again not only naive but ignorant, because predation is the law of nature in animal kingdom. Animals got eaten up alive everyday in order to survival, and world is violent, like it or not, and to pretend that it should be sanctioned would put most animals in prison for their violent crime, or blind to the reality of nature.

If they want to condemn violence, why not spend their real energy to condemn how the military teaches these innocent citizens and convert them into mass murderers for the sake of killing in the name of war? If they want to stop real violence and real killing, stop the military.

Or better yet, invite the military to SL and fight a virtual war. No one will ever get killed.

If they worry so much about sex and the consequences of having sex, SL is the only place where you can have sex without ever getting HIV or getting pregnant.

Sex in SL is 100% safe, you will never get AIDS from it.

That is doing something NOBLE for humanity to fight sex and violence in RL and SL.

Will LL understand this concept?

We must be kidding ourselves if we think there is any hope for them.

I'm getting seriously bored waiting for Blondin to come back. He's been gone for almost 8 hours now. How long does it take to go and ask a few basic questions of people..

so much for 8 questions a day.

I quite agree that SL may have some hurdles to overcome in terms of growth if the equation 'Second Life = Cyber Sex" is allowed to take root in the mindset of the masses. However, I assert that the equation "Second Life = Censored Activity In The Name of Special Interests" would mean instant death. Especially when there are very likely game and MMO developers willing to capitalize on Second Life's failure to embrace adult freedom of sexual expression.

In effect, if adult content, expression and freedoms are marginalized, stigmatized, demonized or otherwise ghettoed to a lag filled island where overcrowding will cause land prices to go through the roof? Those users will very likely cancel their accounts and go where their freedoms are respected, and they are treated as adults.

As for the possible specter of corrupting a minor... Being an adults only online environment, there should BE no children or underage persons online in the first place. With the numerous age verification schemes in place, we should be able to behave as though we were all consenting adults in good faith that we ARE all, in fact, consenting adults. The only way any person could possibly be guilty of corrupting a minor in world is if that minor came on and explicitly said, "Hi there, I'm underage and I want to engage in adult activity online with someone who knows I'm a minor."

...to which the only responsible response from anyone in game should be to report said minor to the Lindens for expulsion. Or said FBI person looking to trap a predator where no predators should be able to find any of their chosen prey. For that... they should be on Second Teen Life. Not where we were assured in good faith that we would not have to deal with children.

I would have to agree with the idea that the only people who should be marginalized in any way in Second Life are those who do not verify their age, and thereby place the rest of us at risk. Whose who wish to restrict our freedom of expression and sexuality can go and be on a G-rated Familyvania Island, where they don't need to run the risk of running into content that may be upsetting for them. While those of us who have been responsible enough and possibly sacrificed our privacy to identify as adults are allowed to have the run of the game.

If censorship of places and the intent by which they were constructed for adult purposes is allowed to progress, at what point will that stop? Will someone with a furry avatar be reported for wearing their shape by someone who finds such things offensive and have their account blacklisted? Or someone with a human shape but is dressed in what could subjectively be considered an offensive manner? Or someone who chooses to take a child's size and shape?

Many people in SL own no land, and are mobile countries/regions unto themselves. Will they ALSO be restricted to Pornistan Isle for expressing themselves in an adult mode of dress or apparent biology? Will their speech be monitored too? Will they have to stay in the red light ghetto if they want to speak in a manner more adult than a disney movie?

Who decides what is offensive, adult, or mature? Those who complain the loudest with an agenda would say that the definition is common sense. But the idea is purely subjective depending on the background of who's doing the complaining. What happens if being openly homosexual is suddenly considered to be too mature for the mainstream island? "Whoops. You were gay in public. So sorry you hung a poster of someone you considered attractive in your private residence. It's off to Slutsylvania for you." By no means is this an extreme example. How many conservatives have made the news daily by not wanting to have to associate with <insert sexual preference, proclivity, philosophy, religion here>? Once given the tools by which 'undesirables' can be shipped out of sight and out of mind, the conservatives will arrive in force to be the morality police.

Of course once the majority of the population in the game are relocated to The Red Light Continent, the expanse of livable land will have to be expanded. Maybe at the cost of reducing the main continent. At which point, the G-Rated continent will shrink and the X-Rated continent will grow until the majority of space in Second Life would be open to mature exploitation...

...just like it is now. So why bother actually even considering it in the first place when the end result at its logical extreme is the status quo? The sensible thing would be to ensure an opt-out haven/isle for those who DON'T want to engage in adult activity. Not a penalization of those who do on behalf of the ones who don't, and the assumed non-existent children on an adult-only server.

These alleged children, and their parents for not minding them properly can go play on a busy freeway. They are not MY responsiblity. And OUR freedoms should not be curtailed on behalf of THEIR negligence. Let THEM go play in Celebration, Second Life. And we responsible consenting adults will go on being adults wherever we like without having to worry about unwittingly being guilty of some form of corrupting a minor, exposing them to 'Harmful Matter' or being guilty of inadvertent and purely nonexistent statuatory rape.

Many people here have come for an experience where they don't have to deal with the immaturity of children. As anyone who has played a massively multiplayer online game might tell you, the chat among children on different servers (looking squarely at World of Warcraft here) is a wasteland of abuse, unacceptably abusive slurs, griefing and near inescapable immaturity. It's an necessary evil if you want to interact with anyone in an open forum to have to deal with barkers, griefers, bigots and hate-filled trollers playing on people's sensitivities.

But not here in Second Life. If anyone or anything needs to be protected here, it's the adults and the haven they have from that kind of nonsense. Not children, who have every other place in the world to go and pester people. We at least, for the most part can police ourselves and be expected in good faith to act as mature adults. We can, for the most part, assume that another adult is going to act responsibly when given access to a world in which they can virtually do or be anything.

Children, by definition are incapable of that level of maturity. Even adults' brains aren't finished developing until the median age of 25 years old. But we can't expect that children, given the opportunity to exist in an anything-goes environment like Second Life to use that responsibility responsibly. And those of us OF age will have to put up with that irresponsible behaviour. Given the social volitility of an environment where children and adults are allowed to freely mix? It will be a bloodbath of account terminations, reprisals, allegations and legal action.

Would it not be more responsible to limit the access of children's ability to access adult content, or safeguard them by not letting them into Second Life in the first place? The same way you don't let them drive a car where they can go anywhere they want in the real world until you can trust one with the responsibility? The same thing goes. If they cannot legally enter into adult relations with someone above the age of majority in the place they reside, then they may not legally enter into second life. The same way they may not enter into a bar, or a cabaret, or any other establishment where the activities therein legally require the patrons to be above that very same age of majority.

Children have no right to be in Second Life. The same way they have no right to alcohol, a car, or adult media until they are old enough. And for the very same reason. Not because the alcohol, car or adult media is in itself harmful or bad. But because a child may not be trusted to use it responsibly, or comprehend it in a mature and responsible way. We as adults have EVERY right to be protected from their invasive and threatening presence. The right to be assured of being able to be responsible adults with one another without threat of possible legal reprisal.

Oh trust me, getting 8 questions a day answered is a bloody impressive feat. Blondin is doing fine.

i do not agree with this i have a free acount yes but by choise i pay manny linndens a month in sl but i do not think you should limit the choise people have to have a free or premium acount .i dont mind the aga varification iff it would work that is ,and it does not tryed it a couple off times but seems it only aplies for US ,sl has manny diferent country s not only US

Why even wait? in reading this those 8 questions are just going to get dismissive and condescending one-sentence answers. Sometimes I think that's a required practice in their customer disservice handbook. To be as dismissive and condescending as possible.

Well here's my question. What constitutes 'adult content' And I want a real definition, not the 'fuzzy logic' that they used on 'broadly offensive content'. Is adult content simply going to be what brainwashed prudes and fundamentalist religions nuts call adult content? if that's the case we might as well hang up everything now because everything is adult content to those that have the minds of children.

Oh, and another. If there's no effort to move the teen grid to the main grid, then how come getting an account requires no verification of age whatsoever, and all potentially thought provoking, aka "offensive" content is being wiped form the mainland? This reeks of a typical "For the children! What bout the children!" response that we see all too often in the United States.

Also, why 8 questions a day? So you can pick and choose the biggest non-issues and skirt the real ones like you do on every other issue? Instead of sitting around with your thumbs up your rear cowering to the puritans, why don't you provide some real customer service?

Also, why, oh why, is this information not known widely? Make an in-world bulletin! Oh, wait, no that would mean that the customer base as a whole would know how badly you're about to screw them. And we can't have that, can we?

I'm here merely voicing my thoughts and concerns on various levels.
And please do excuse me if i'm asking already answered questions. i have not read ALL of the posts here.

1. What im worrying about is the fact that 'in some way' people will have to verify their account to be declared mature by either making a CC purchase or in communication with a third party installation for processing legal information.

Does this not compromise privacy, or at least endanger it?

How will the residents be able to settle this?

Have there been researches to alternatives?

Allso, what about people that come from a different country than the US, and what about legal systems there, what if the age of mature rated content in other country's are 21 years old and not 18, or 16 instead of 18?
How will LL or this third party installation parse legal information if its from a foreign country?

2. Taking in question the amount of input "mature" residents will have to make in terms of flagging content.

Will it only snap to sims/parcels/estates or will this also include items?

In which the question rises how will we flag content?

Does every creator have to flag their own content to be mature or can other people do so?
Out of which more questions arise, which are:
Will i have to manually check a box to flag my items to be mature in object properties?
Have there been any thoughts in "abuse" of this system if other people are able to flag my content?

3. How will the separation work? will, for example a PG resident's client be checking if objects within its render vicinity are PG or MATURE before rendering them?

if so, does this not rise the question of chat? graphic content? streaming media?

What about excessive mature language, or mature graphic content or music with harsh lyrics?

what about Images? will they be flagged mature too? or not?

This also includes voice of course, is a system going to be developed that censors voice messages? i do not see how wide the 'grip' LL is taking in this matter..

4. You're saying this will not 'influence' businesses of mature related content.
How will people that 'per definition' log in on SL for the first time to check it out be getting in contact with mature items if that person at first does not expect such a thing /AT ALL/

5. From the point i stand (and this is more of a personal experience rather than an actual correct standpoint) i've been around mature content in every single corner i look, from clubs (raw music/ graphic media) to stripclubs to mature related role playings (which i think is a very /underestimated/ majority of SL).
To me, the majority of SL is MATURE, if i had to roughly estimate mature vs pg (taking in mind graphic media, vulgar language over voice, vulgar chat messages, roleplaying people) i'd say its a 78% to 22%, in all seriousness.


Overall i guess you can say im worried, i'm in for change if it has to be done, but this compromises everything i stand for, compromises the social way of mature life in SL in how to meet people with the same set of thoughts.

I can understand the underlying pressure, i'd get pretty annoyed at all the politically correct activists here on SL too who shun and jump on anything when hearing the word "age".

Is it not possible to remain standing tall in this matter and leave it up to the parents to decide what their children should/shouldn't do?

Is a shopkeeper imprisoned if he sold liquor to a minor who managed to obtain a false ID?
No.
And so do i believe that the current way of making PG to be PG and mature to be mature is sufficient.

I'm thrilled in one way, annoyed by this matter in the other way, and slightly frightened of what will happen to my in world business and relationships.

I've heard many friends tell me they will quit SL if this new change is going to turn bad.

Sincerely, a concerned ADULT SL resident.

but he hasn't managed to answer one of them yet lol.. he told us around 3.15 he was just going to get the answers to his 8 (not actually telling us which questions he was running with) and never came back!!

my bum went numb sitting on that couch waiting..

edited to add: that's 3:15 BST (british summer time) ie 8 hours ago from posting this

You could get up and come back later. The answers would be there when you came back. It's not like skywriting.

*On second thought......

1. I don't see how this will profit Linden Labs any. How can Linden Labs not look at the current status of how the money flows in second life.
2. The Adult Entertainment industry is a big part of Second Life. Look at the Clubs not just beaches for such. Another look at the adult content creators of second life.
3, DO NOT forget that you LINDEN LABS did make is so parcel owners can only allow age verified owners. Remember how much adult content people deal with in real life.
4. As a person you are responsible for your choices. Just because the government or a religious group says we don't like that doesn't mean that I do. I choose not to have there views pushed on me. Second Life is about be anything you want to be.
5. Does this mean you will also choose to rethink the slogan anything you want to be. Perhaps it should be anything you want to be that someone chooses for you.
6. Last you know what they say real old saying one beyond our years..."don't fix it if it ain't broke"

/me grins and rests my case lol

18+ is international common. Example: internet. You can enter each and every "adult" website from 18+ on. No exceptions. And yes, SL need to target an international audience. So far I have seen the Lindens acting only on a specific axis and with a arbitrarily self-designed rating system as tool. First a double-system, now a triple-system. maybe we will see a 150-level system one day? Who knows? Hahaha. No official supervising behind that. Many agree with a point of view and by experience, that this system is arbitrarily, a fake-moralism and meaningless. Especially now, while it is able to split the community into pieces, more than ever before!

And about inside: for wich reasons do you think we have medias in masses? TV, newspaper, internet, authors, etc. It is all available and if one knows the right sources... U c... and by the way: CNN is running around the clock here and not only that. Not -only -that.



Nothing conspirative there. A hard-fact docu was made. Organisation, names and backgrounds are now open. Docu was made in USA and by US-journalists/fact-finders. Broadcasted around the globe, even in our both countries main station ORF II on mondays Culture on monday. (3-4 weeks ago) Facts on table. Hollywood productions *are* rated/pre-censored by a *private* non-offical, non-government and *not* - I repeat: *not* democratic controlled organisation. These pre-censoring and ratings creating people are not voted by the US-citizens. Definitly. Infos you can search by yourself, or via ORF, you US-expert.



How do you know? I am not too crazy, to open here my whole biography from 0 - 38. One year London 1995 with my band is ok for you, as "realm-change"? And: I need not to be a cook, to know if a soup catched too much salt from amateur-cooks. But basicly you are right. I had not the chance to live in 200+ countries along my life so far... But with an active brain and academical triple graduated I should have a clue about the planet under my both feet, "basicly"...maybe too basic for your taste, but for me it is ok...



If you read it not, as you said now..., you are not the person with the nickname Monalisa who is posting there...ergo is your vocable "possibly" meaningless. Logical, or? And that you do not read the only quality paper we both have in .at, speaks editions...

So, keep distance from the idea, to try to explain the world or myself to me...this would drive you only in more and more argumentations-depths. And we are not alone here. Not everyone needs to know, if you run into paradoxons.

As so often, I go now and bang my head against a wall...in advance, because I am sure you like the thought... hehehehe

If we all oppose this plan so much, and believe that widespread knowledge of this plan would be catastrophic to its implementation, why don't we do something about that in world?

You make a set of posters with an attached notecard explaining the proposed ghettoing of mature content and URL's leading to these boards. The poster should be copiable, in order that people can take copies and post them in their own establishments, where other people can virally get copies of those posters and distribute them even further. If more than one poster is made, then full permed versions of all the OTHER posters should also be in there for people to choose from. As well. we make sure these posters get offered as freebies on SLXchange, or whatever they're calling themselves now, as well as other Web-based shopping venues.

Lots of us in-world are talented Photoshop and 3d artists. Let's put that talent to use. We get a very small parcel of land or a store in a high traffic mall somewhere. We decorate it with the posters that people can get for free. If enforcement on freebies available in the beginner's areas is so lax, we use that to our advantage and leave them there too. Let the people coming in know exactly what they're about to let themselves in for. We start groups in-world with the purpose of directing people to these boards to voice their dissent with the idea.

We could even come up with a contest for posters to spread awareness of the idea. I know I wouldn't have a problem with say... ponying up 5000L to contribute to a prize. That's not overly much, but imagine the size of the purse if we get a whole coalition of mature business owners and concerned parties willing to contribute to the idea? No one's gonna boot up Photoshop and start brainstorming for a mere 5000... but with enough of us chipping in with like amounts, imagine the incentive for a prize like 50,000L with a second prize of 25,000L With honorable mentions getting gift certs for merchandise?

With that kind of incentive and blanket trumpeting of the idea, word should spread quickly and effectively. We don't want to be obnoxious about it. We should make the posters 'no modify' so the idea can't be sabotaged with posters that have been altered to make annoying noises, or shower people who take copies with penises, or something equally doofy and destructive to open dialogue.

If special interests have the ears of the Lindens in this matter, let's beat them at their own game and trumpet OUR cause louder than they can... with better design sense to boot! The idea is to encourage debate and dissent with the unpopular idea of marginalizing mature content. The sweeter and easier we can make the idea, the better. How's this grab ya folks?

I think, in its current state, and with pressure of 'in-power' people we're not able to stop this.

Heck its already beginning on the 7th of April, that's 5 days from now.