Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

After this exchange I sold a couple parcels at a fraction of the cost I paid to acquire them. Even abandoning the land so I could drop land tier for my alt would have been cheaper than idling it. I am now wondering what to do with the other half region I own.

So, must I throw all my adult poseballs onto the front lawn and advertise free sex in the search engine in order to qualify for a land swap? Should I run a weekly contest to determine which avatar can sport the largest male appendage?

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Obviously I don't know how the quote method works. Sorry. ==> Thanks to Wynochee LeShelle.

According to blondin, no. According to the published FAQ, yes. (Depictions of death(etc), whether photorealistic or not)

-V-

Don't do anything until the policy is finalized.

My, My! A statistician who won't quote metrics to support her statistics? Who won't break her numbers down into categories so that they are useful for analysis?

Either "meta" is just some trained seal who has learned to count noses, or she *is* a statistician, and is loathe to release her actual results because they don't support the company line.

Either way, why should we listen to her, and why should LL?


YO Blondin! Point this out to mark and the gang, okay? You have a bunch of pissed off users here, who despite their anger with LL and its management techniques, are actively *TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO ACCOMPLISH LL'S GOALS WITHOUT KILLING THEIR GOLDEN GOOSE*

The folks on this forum seem to be the only ones who care about that- everyone else is all hung up in the way they *want* reality to be, rather than actually *dealing* with it as it is.

-V-

I agree, you'd think that they would recognize this and go back over the years. Hell, if I was Mark Kingdon, I would have an assistant reading the entire forum archive, and assembling data about who was right most often, about *anything*.

Anyone with more than a 75% average- *they* would be the "Lindens". Any linden who screwed up badly enough would get yoinked from the the team.

However, what we have here is a company that persists in seeing its user base as a bunch of 13-14 year-old little-boy gaming geeks- Thus, they must be *protected* from adult material, regardless of whether they want to see it, and *shouldn't* be listened to about that, or any other business issue.

Wise up LL! You have a lot more talent in the user base than you have on your payroll!

-V-

You made all perfect, beside that there should be a = sign between the *first* QUOTE and the next name or word without space.

The rest was perfect - the brackets, the capital letters, the slash, all correct.

They could well be will be finalizing up policy as the first wave are moving? Making your land qualified for Adult might keep both options open while the policy is in this limbo. You could revert it back to Mature if you wanted.

So it's obviously the *porn* that drives people away!

Not the fact that when people get here, they are *expecting* a *GAME*, and they look around an there are no readily available orcs or stormtroopers to kill, and instead, the see a chatroom with avatars?

Not that the "lead in" to the more entertainment oriented aspects of SL are hard to find, even *if* you are looking.

Not that the frakkin' grid can't *hold* 15 million users- it would melt to slag if they all logged in at once!

Not that the graphic technology of the platform isn't *nearly* as pretty as the crop of video games from 2 years ago.

Not that the platform crashes from undiagnosed errors so often that in any rational QC scheme, it would be considered *BETA* at best.

Not that the technical staff of the company spend their time and energy thinking up and implementing new "features" that the platform doesn't need as opposed to troubleshooting the ones that they have *already* implemented, but don't work reliably.

Not that SL's main use is as a social space, and that internet social spaces tend to attract folks who are less than able or willing to interact socially in RL ("Internet tough guys" griefers, flamers, and simple assholes).

Not that there are a number of barriers to participating fully in second life- not the least of which is the ability and willingness to navigate the labyrinth or web sites and accounting rules to actual buy a few damn lindens.

Not that Internet Commerce *still* hasn't become the seamless, carefree paradigm that we were promised back in the 1980's

Not that there *still* isn't any such thing as bulletproof account security for making financial transactions online.

Not that People get bored with even the most exciting game in the world, or move on to the next thing, and the next, and SL hasn't done anything sufficiently exciting to become the "next thing" since around the time it started.

Not that there are any number of strictly ideosyncratic reasons why any given person, business or organization might simply not *want* to participate after time.


No, it *has* to be the cartoon sex.


Sigh.

-V-

Exactly- the *demand* is for LL to get rid of anyone who might like a little grownup action now and again, so that the people who *don't* can feel normal, and never have to think about it.

The demand is for "Don't put *ME* in that fishbowl. put *everyone else* in the fishbowl!"


The problem is that "mature" outnumbers PG about 3-1 on the main grid.

I think that tells us who needs to be in the fishbowl, doesn't it?

-V-

Sin, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have that *now*? I mean, by your logic, you should be arguing for *no* changes, not the biggest changes *possible*.

Mature *Is* currently the place for adult content, and PG is not. If they didn't change a single thing, you would have exactly what you want.

-V-

Do not forget, after 60 days, all Adult content searches, relegated to OTHER, effectively, swept under the rug, no need to pull it.

Lord Sullivan
DTC at all times

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 1,666
Send a message via ICQ to Lord Sullivan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentine Young
please post a SLURL, or region and coordinates


The SLURL is in my sig line

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hamchorom/31/226/803

Its all full perms BTW

I've always thought Meta was pretty cool..

Can we please keep this as a discussion about the policy changes?

The problem is that they don't *want* to simply "cover their butts". They *want* to be "respectable". As in, now matter how blue one's nose is, they cannot *possibly* find fault with any of their content or practices.

They *want* the impossible.

You see, LL is in denial. they refuse to admit that SL isn't some kind of universal panacea for every business, social and educational communication.

They think they are the *telephone*, or the personal computer, when in reality, they are at best a cell-phone, or a laptop. They are an adaptation of an existing "big idea", not a "big idea" in their own right. And because they cannot see past the halo of divine inspiration, they cannot see that their adaptation is simply not as useful as they think it is.

Because they cannot allow themselves to see that, they have to come up with reasons other than "We're not as useful as we thought we were" to explain why the world isn't beating a path to their door.

The reasons they have chosen is that their users have taken something pure and besmirched it with their silly and perverse ways, and that we all need to be reined in before ruin SL for *everybody*.

Anyone remember a while back when the Segway came out? How much hype there was, and how much speculation there was about how it would change society, cure cancer and re-oxygenate the martian atmosphere?

Then it turned out to simply be a motorized hand-truck with a gyroscope to keep you from falling down.

Well, SL has unveiled the hand-truck, developed a core user base, and can't get anyone else interested. They've tried adding shiny gimmicks to the hand-truck to attract new customers, but that hasn't worked.
Now, in their denial, rather than simply contenting themselves with the fact that they have created something interesting that might organically grow into something special; They are trying to *subtract* things from the hand-truck. Taking it away from anyone who has used it irresponsibly- retrofitting a system so that it won't start if there is any alcohol on your breath, say.

And all the people who like to have a beer now and again are being called Alcoholics and discounted by LL when they complain.


Let's not kid ourselves. We are not the user base that LL wants. They want a user base consisting of *everyone*, and in their quest to get it, we are expendable. They figure that once SL has become ubiquitous, we'll *have* to use it on *their* terms, so they don't need to listen to us now.

It's sad, but true. LL are fooling themselves themselves, and *we* are what they are fooling themselves about.

-V-

OKay, now *both* you and Couldbe own me a new keyboard and a couple fresh blood dolls! Do you know how *undignified* snorting blood through your nose looks!?

-V-

Why I will tier down shortly:

I had a horror gallery I'd set up on PG land (my mistake, as I had no idea LL's original definition of PG -- which includes "horror"-- was more restrictive than the MPAA's. My horror gallery included nothing worse than '31 Frankenstein, or Poltergeist. I repeatedly asked for clarification here in the official response forums and got no response. Anyway, my mistake...so I moved the gallery to "M" rated land a couple of weeks ago. At a massive loss to me as I'd bought the PG land back when land was worth something.

So now we get this new definition which classifies death and dismemberment (er, as in Frankenstein?) as "adult". I make no money from my gallery. I charge nothing and sell nothing (well, I was going to, but it would never have amounted to my tier). So because I will not suffer from some major financial crisis (in their view) I would never qualify for a free transfer to Ursula. I'd be denied. Not that I really wanted to leave the second home of my gallery, on its hill, sloping into misty water, for the...whatever...that will be Ursula. I searched for days for that land too. Thinking that M might be the rating for me! Ha.

I will not sit by and wait to be AR'd by some prude. I'm tiering down the very second they finalize these "definitions." I've wasted enough money here trying to bring another facet, built by me, to this Second Life.

Oh, and the sliver of PG land I kept because I was sentimental and it was my first land? I am now getting verbally abused by people there who have only heard from the Lindens that it was PG "people like me" who wanted this. Guess that land is going up for sale next. Which is fine. Because we're going back to "no horror" on PG land, I'd be loathe to set out my jack-o-lantern for Halloween this year anyway. Nice job, Lindens. You are rank idiots.

I'm going to spend my entertainment dollar elsewhere, no doubt. Hope you enjoy all of those birds you imagine in your hands.

I'm not sure that this is a valid assumption. I'm sure that someone said:

"Even if a few malcontents complain about it, where else are they gonna go?"

But that isn't the same thing as a clear-eyed appraisal of:

"We're gonna lose about 30% of our NPIOF users, which will have a cascade effect throughout the SL economy. This will not only put many adult content creators out of business, but will also put a lot of pressure on content creation that feeds *into* the adult content sector, and severely affect your tier collection numbers, at least in the short term"

I'm pretty sure that *nobody* said that in any meeting before a month ago. I think that this plan was hatched in a bubble of happy gas and denial.




I would only change that to read "therefore, the only thing that makes sense is some other outside factor is *perceived* as more important than the existing customer base, *or* LL is badly mistaken about the nature and wishes of its customer base."

I am not familiar with all the current government action in countries other than the US, but in the US, a check box with an affirmation that the user is 18, not knowingly violating community standards, and is willingly seeking out mature content; is all that you need to avoid trouble with the law as long as the content you provide is in and of itself, Legal.

Second Life, with the possible exception of any sexual age-play or child porn that might be lurking on the grid, is *already* in complete compliance with any requirements to avoid legal trouble because of adult content, and US law is the applicable law here. Linden Research Inc. is an *American* company, headquartered and operating entirely within the borders of the United States. Any Non-US customers Connect *to* the US servers via the internet. that does not change the fact that the company operates wholly in the US and under US law.

So, the British "cartoon violence and videotaped kink" law that has been bandied about only applies to UK users. The same applies to any other national laws violated by SL content. it is the *user* who is responsible for those violations, not LInden Research Inc.

LL's in-house counsel *knows* that, just like he knows that the postmaster general of the state of Alabama can't prosecute a California internet company for violation the community standards of Alabama with its content. the Alabaman who *downloads* it is the one making it cross state lines, not the provider.


This simply *isn't* a legal issue. It *can't* be. It *might* be a *lawyer* issue- as in, a lawyer, trying to generate more billable hours, has convinced the LL executives that it *is* a legal issue, but it simply isn't, and *can't* be. these issues were settled in the earliest days of computer-to-computer communication here in the US. There *were* cases of Postmasters trying to prosecute companies in california fought all the way to the US supreme court, and in *every* case, it was determined that the content provider held no liability.

Any lawyer who won't *tell* you that is trying to sell you a retainer agreement.

That leaves "education" and business. And they has been operating here since the beginning, and except for griefers, are mostly left alone, yes? they have private islands, not mainland, yes? and can easily control access to a limited list of avatars, and buy advertising plots on mainland if they wish, yes?

Then why do we need the changes?

We "need" them because LL has an inflated sense of its importance in the world. We "need" them because LL hasn't achieved the universal saturation that phil and the others thought that they would have by now, and they are trying *anything* to try to get there.
we "need" them because LL refuses to admit that they are not an indispensable part of the future, and that they are a *luxury*, not a *need*.


That's why they won't listen. They are *deluded* as to their own importance to the world.
They will do *anything* rather than wake up.

-V-

There is no point in arguing for "no changes" LL has made up it's mind and it's a done deal. I only want to be sure that I have as much freedom as possible in the new world order. And it looks like I will be paying out of my own pocket to have it.

If I were to argue anything at all with LL, it would be for land swaps for anyone who requests one (PG, Mature, business owner or private citizen). Anyone who bought land under the old rating system should have the opportunity to swap their land for something they are comfortable with.

They said that that solution "didn't meet the criteria of their project" or some such. My impression was that blondin said "We aren't going to do that because we weren't planning on doing that"

-V-

Yes!

You are so very right. If you watch the Interview on the BBC with M. Linden, you will see he talks about a chair. A most wonderful chair that he has in both real life and the exact copy in SL. HOW BORING CAN YOU GET????!!! Why would you want Second Life to be about having the same crap you have in RL in SL when you can have the impossible in SL. Why not a hovering bananna chair? Why not a flying carpet? This is the problem. They want to bring RL products into SL, so that when you buy that product in RL, you can have a digital copy of it for your SL. I'm sorry but I simply am not interested. If those are the kinds of million users you are looking to attract, good luck. Second Life is about escapism. If I wanted RL, I'd spend all my time there, instead of some of my time here, in SL where the possibilities USED TO BE endless.

Hell, parachuting in *blind* is half the fun! You just have to be willing to parachute back out again if things aren't to your liking.

-V-

This is probably way too late in the convo, but I will put my L$1 (converts to 2 cents ) in. Anything that would get a movie an NC17 rating in the US should be what gets an Adult Content rating in SL. And I like the idea of putting all the AC into one "red light district" so that those of us who don't wish to encounter this stuff can avoid it. I do understand that moving can be aggrivating, though. I hope this can be worked out to the satifaction of the majority - no solution will please everyone involved.

My stepsister signed up for SL, took one look around, and decided never to come back. I asked her why, and she told me it was because all of the pornography. The only thing I can figure is that she found her way into a skin shop. Some of those skin shop pics can be rather explicit for my tastes as well. I would prefer if the full frontal nudity is behind a wall so I can stay out of that section if I wish.

Actually cuff, I'd be more worried by the fact that you might not be *eligible* for a free move from your parcel and be forced to choose between paying through the nose for "adult" land, and cleaning up your act to LInden-approved standards of decency.

Being forcibly relocated is actually the *least* of our worries at this point.

-V-

Thanks for the Wiki & stuff LS!

-V-