Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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04-25-2009 10:29
From: Ciaran Laval People remember bad customer service experiences for a lot longer than they remember good ones, unfortunately in many cases but that's human nature. I dunno. I remember the vast majority of good customer service experiences, but I also remember the vast majority of the bad ones I have had, too. I think the issue is the old mantra "doing good doesn't excuse doing bad", and the fact that complaining is a lot more visceral and emotional activity than praising. In addition, "good" is the expected default, and thus often does not get the praise it deserves. It is one reason why people often choose evil over good; good simply doesn't pay nearly as well. |
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Ilana Debevec
Registered User
Join date: 25 May 2007
Posts: 130
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04-25-2009 10:38
Shameless self kick because this was done in the wee hours and with the new writings of meta becomes little more relevant. That and I' crusing down I80 trying to keep up on my G1, reading good, posting not so much. From: Ilana Debevec ((Pulls up a stool, sits down, takes a large leather bound book out of her backpack. The book looks old, very old and gives of an air of.. power. Thumbs thru the book a moment, finds the page she wants and smiles mischievously. Pulls her glasses down to the tip of her nose and looks to the assembled crowd *))
All right everyone, this is a story of abuse of power, lack of consideration and how some people have to be FORCED to see reality.
One upon a time, there was a Mobile Home Community that had been in existence for many, many years. Not a 'trailer park' where people come and go with the blowing of the winds, but a COMMUNITY. People rented their plots of land, paid monthly fees and made homes there. Some even made businesses out of their home, writing, painting.. creating. Many had been there for 10+ years and had made their little plots of land into a real home. Adding landscaping, gardening, turning bare pieces of land into THEIR lives, THEIR way. Retired people that had come there for a real home. These homes were not cheap either, double, even TRIPLE wide homes that would equal and even SURPASS normal homes in comfort and design.
All was good.. people were happy....
Then one day, the owners of the rented land got a bug up their arse and decided that they could make more money if they used the land to build overprices, cramped, only mediocre houses. Take the rental plots and wipe them to the ground and build new houses.
Only one problem. The people LIVING and WORKING there.
The owners didn't care "we're doing this and nothing you can do about it.."
"But we LIVE here, we WORK here, we've spend years and thousands and thousands of dollars to build our IDEAS, our IMAGINATIONS here" the residents cried.
"Tough tookies" the owners said "you can find other places.. see we have another park here.. way way way across the city, down there in the low part of town. No one is there yet, but you can start over there."
"NO!" the residents screamed "it's ridiculous for us to move, this place is full, gives you a good income from our rent! You've got EMPTY LAND OVER THERE, build the homes there!"
"Ridiculous or not, we're going to do it... you'll have 90 days to find a place to live and move your homes, you're welcome to move to our other park... if you can find room. And oh, you'll have to pay for moving yourselves."
"That's incredibly expensive and time consuming! If you're going to MAKE us move, then at least MOVE us!"
"Nope, your problem, we'll save a spot for you, but you'll have to packup, move, unpack, redo all your landscaping, new deposits, new utilities, new everything.. and it's outta your pocket... oh and if you are NOT moved in 90 days, we'll be locking this area down. You can't get in and we'll put all your stuff in storage until you can find a place to use it."
The residents looked at each other, looked at the owners and in a clear voice said "FRACK YOU!" **
So the residents sought out a barrister, who looked at their situation and say "This is not fair, not reasonable and not logical. I will help you." So the barrister sought out a wise and intelligent judge and got an injunction preventing the owners from carrying out this plan until some reason and sanity could be applied. After about 16 months of legal wrangling, the owners finally had to give in to an arbitrator...
And what did the arbitrator say? Well, that the owners DID have the right to reuse their land how ever they chose, HOWEVER they also did have the ABSOLUTE RESPONSIBILITY to the people that lived there to treat them with RESPECT and FAIRNESS. The arbitrator decided that -
- the owners had to bear ALL costs of relocating the residents, including their homes, their properties, even their landscaping and additions. Those represented work and money that the residents had put in to their HOMES and must be recognized. Deposits and costs for new utility hookups, electricity, water, sewage, etc.. must ALSO be covered, since the OWNERS were removing these people form their homes at the OWNERS decision, not the residents.
- for those RESIDENTS that had their business at their homes, the OWNERS had to make COMPENSATION for lost income, costs of re-advertising their business at the new locations.
- that he owners COULD NOT "shut down" and "lock people out" of their homes until EVERYONE was moved, and had to give them AMPLE TIME to do it.
In the end....
The RESIDENTS carried on, some left the area totally, disgusted with the situation, some went to other places to live and tried to rebuild their happy lives and some muddled on and tried to make a life.
The OWNERS? The cleared the land and then the housing bubble broke.. they ended up with 2/3 of the land barren and empty, 1/3 of it with houses, but only about 1/2 of those occupied because no one had the money to buy their over priced homes and the bad publicity during all the legal wrangling made people not want to buy there.. and lost more money than they could have made had they just built new homes in the new land.
Here ends the tale my friends... but the story goes on...
((closes book, puts it back in her backpack and smiles.. ))
* 100 bonus points to whoever reads the "Grimm Fairy Tales comics from Zenescope Entertainment and may have seen this coming.
** Sanitized for public consumption, no relation to "Battlestar Galactica" or any NBC/Universal property. |
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Blueray Darkes
Registered User
Join date: 9 Jul 2006
Posts: 1
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04-25-2009 10:42
This is the ADULT grid we got PG and Adult sims all over the grid because its the adult grid, there is already rules and guidelines that have been in place for god knows how long. Underage people are not allowed on the adult grid, and when found are reported and banned. If the people who have been shouting that they hate all the mature stuff that goes on, then they need to grow up and stop going to mature sims. Or they can just never leave the teenage grid cos at least then its safe, and nothing adult happens there.
Seriously this whole thing is ridiclous
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Snickers Snook
Odd Princess - Trout 7.3
Join date: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 746
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04-25-2009 10:55
From: Matthew Dowd Anyone who wishes to retain their current ability to host an adult event advertised with adult keywords will *need* to move. I think the ability to move should be allowed for 6 months. Then, it settles in. If you think about it, zoning changes happen in RL all the time. That single-family house could get upzoned for condos. It happens. But not with minimal notice and not forcing people to move RIGHT NOW.
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 Buh-bye forums, it's been good ta know ya.
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Missy Telling
Registered User
Join date: 1 Nov 2007
Posts: 1
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04-25-2009 11:01
I initially read all of the forum posts but I can not keep up. Did the Lindens every say why (lol, i know, what am I thinking!!!) they did just not create a new PG continent where all new users had to go until verified or even better, a PG continent that was voluntary?
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Studly Lockjaw
Registered User
Join date: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 38
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04-25-2009 11:04
From: Anabella Spark Some sort of action within SL. Of course action which will be legal. We should get together and get the this thing going on. I think that within the week it is possible to get enough people so the press will be alarmed. I have spoken to some reporters (in rl) and they would love to write an article about it. Boycotting the tier will not work since most of us are business owners and we cannot allow to hurt our business. Anything against TOS is not acceptable also. I'm talking about some sort of action which would show other SL residents and the RL world that this is the most stupid idea ever. Sorry, but 99% posts here are totally ignored. I think it is the time to act. After all we are the customers. Of course we can always leave, but we dont want to because we love SL. btw. here is a very funny video about second life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9hQDT6fhImy favorite quote from the video: 'Internet is a cruel mistress"  any lawyers in this form that could help advise this would be a great addition to this idea so we can clearly not get into the business of slander or other forms that could lead to a useless end to the action |
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Ryanna Enfield
Registered User
Join date: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 225
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04-25-2009 11:10
"All the cool, brilliant, innovative people leave the room..."
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~*Ryanna Enfield*~
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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04-25-2009 11:20
From: Missy Telling I initially read all of the forum posts but I can not keep up. Did the Lindens every say why (lol, i know, what am I thinking!!!) they did just not create a new PG continent where all new users had to go until verified or even better, a PG continent that was voluntary? "We don't want to do that." No, seriously, that pretty much is their explanation regarding that idea. |
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Anabella Spark
Registered User
Join date: 2 Nov 2006
Posts: 418
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04-25-2009 11:20
From: Ryanna Enfield "All the cool, brilliant, innovative people leave the room..." It was 2 years ago... They are all gone now  |
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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04-25-2009 11:29
From: Anabella Spark It was 2 years ago... They are all gone now Naw, there are still a few there, but they are increasingly being buried under bigger and deeper piles of corporate bullshit. As such, I don't think that they will be there for the long haul, ESPECIALLY since if this policy (or, indeed, any similarly future policy) tanks so bad as to force layoffs, the first people up on the chopping block will be them. "We don't need innovation anymore; we need more customers, and that means BIGGER and BETTER MARKETING!" The smart ones will see the writing on the wall long before that time, and will secure themselves against it by leaving before the train wrecks. |
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Snickers Snook
Odd Princess - Trout 7.3
Join date: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 746
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Letter to Linden Labs's PR Firm
04-25-2009 11:29
FWIW, I sent this:
RE: Linden Lab Ushers in New Era of Second Life
Dear Kristin,
I read this release and have been participating in the endless ongoing discussions with Blondin Linden in the Second Life Forums. I don't whether you folks have any say in this issue. Regardless, it has turned into an internal PR disaster with the residents, content creators and land owners in Second Life. Linden Labs is going to force people to move their residents and businesses to a new continent on the basis of:
* fuzzy definitions about "adult" content
* fuzzy definitions about who can or must move
* an age verification system that does not work
* inadequate controls for land owners on age
* payment information being accepted as proof of adult status (when VISA & MasterCard and the US Government clearly state that having a credit card is absolutely NOT to be considered such proof)
* supposed discussions with residents that never took place
People (REAL PEOPLE) bought land from Linden Labs on the basis that they would be allowed to use it in accordance with the existing terms and conditions. Mature land for adults, PG land for adults who did not want to see sex and certain forms of violence. All fairly clear. Now, many of those that bought in Mature areas (with the expectation of being able to use their land for adult activities) are going to be forced to move because their activities OR the descriptions of them MAY be considered too adult by Linden Labs.
This is nonsense. If Linden Labs wants to create a grid where it may potentially be safe for children to access (something they already have in the Teen Grid), then they should have created a new squeeky clean G continent with the option of moving there and leave everything else alone.
Please note that I personally own land in a Mature area but do not do anything that would remotely be regarded as "adult" under the new rules. However, my property was purchased with the understanding between me and Linden Labs that I COULD use it as such or that someone I sold it to could use it as such. What Linden Labs is essentially doing is "rezoning" an entire, completely built country and telling 1/2 the population that they are going to have to move. And some may not be given the opportunity to move (because they aren't being raunchy enough now).
This is not about "giving residents choices". We already have choices. This is about taking away choices, privileges and "property rights" we thought we had. Sure the Terms of Service basically say Linden Labs can do anything it likes (now go get screwed) -- but Philip has always expressed a vision much bigger than that. Sadly, it looks like "your world, your imagination" is becoming just another dead end for many people.
--
Snickers Snook
_____________________
Buh-bye forums, it's been good ta know ya.
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DanielRavenNest Noe
Registered User
Join date: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,076
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04-25-2009 11:30
From: Gordon Wendt On the 1.23 testing people testing the new viewer have been trying to drive that in for LL that the messages it gives when blocking a search for using "adult" words needs to specify what words have been blocked otherwise it's a total crap shoot, I honestly doubt LL will change it but they really should at least tell people what's being blocked. That's OK, people will make one word descriptions and find out if its blocked that way, then make a collaborative list here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Search_keywords |
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
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04-25-2009 11:34
From Meta Linden:
"B) The voice you are NOT hearing on the forums (by definition) is the millions of new potential users we want to enjoy Second Life like you do, but aren't here yet. Surveys of people who tried SL but decided it wasn't for them, as well as feedback from new organizations (educational, corporate, and other social networks), pointed out the high visibility of AO content in M spaces as a blocking concern for them. It is for *these* silent potential users we are making this change"
I guess no one at LL has ever heard the old adage about one bird in the hand being worth more than two in the bush.
_____________________
I'm going to pick a fight
William Wallace, Braveheart
“Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind”
Douglas MacArthur
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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04-25-2009 11:35
From: Missy Telling I initially read all of the forum posts but I can not keep up. Did the Lindens every say why (lol, i know, what am I thinking!!!) they did just not create a new PG continent where all new users had to go until verified or even better, a PG continent that was voluntary? It doesn't fit with their plan, that really says a lot about what the plan is which is to make mature in public pretty much PG, why build a new PG continent when your plan is to turn the existing mature land into PG. |
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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04-25-2009 11:38
From: Chris Norse I guess no one at LL has ever heard the old adage about one bird in the hand being worth more than two in the bush. I think they regard it as a myth. |
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
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04-25-2009 11:38
From: Qie Niangao I think it's only fair to note that the incident is almost 2 years old, when Meta was a freshly-anointed Linden. Sure, it was bad judgment and an ungenerously-spirited thing to do, but there has to be some kind of statute of limitations on historical asshattedness or we'd all be too ashamed to get out of bed in the morning. (Or at least I would.  ) One thing I always remember a sergeant telling me in basic training was "It don't matter how many atta boy's you got, one ah shit will be what you are remembered for." For me that is Meta's "ah shit"
_____________________
I'm going to pick a fight
William Wallace, Braveheart
“Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind”
Douglas MacArthur
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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04-25-2009 11:41
From: Missy Telling I initially read all of the forum posts but I can not keep up. Did the Lindens every say why (lol, i know, what am I thinking!!!) they did just not create a new PG continent where all new users had to go until verified or even better, a PG continent that was voluntary? It was waaaaay back on page 50 of this thread..  From: Blondin Linden 4) It has been suggested that LL create two new continents - one entirely PG for those wishing for an entirely "PG" experience, and one entirely mature for those wishing for an entirely "mature" experience, leaving the existing continents for those wishing a "mixed" experience. People could then choose to move to these continents rather than be required to move. What are LL's view on this proposal?
ANSWER: Unfortunately this doesn't meet the criteria of the program. Keep in mind that what we now call Mature will be a very large proportion of our existing geography and content, with PG and Adult in the minority. So what you are requesting is essentially what we are doing - a large experience that is 18+ with other material available by choice. edit: and the crowd's reaction was pretty much what you'd expect from an answer like that... |
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Kira Welty
Registered User
Join date: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 125
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04-25-2009 11:47
From: Chris Norse From Meta Linden:
"B) The voice you are NOT hearing on the forums (by definition) is the millions of new potential users we want to enjoy Second Life like you do, but aren't here yet. Surveys of people who tried SL but decided it wasn't for them, as well as feedback from new organizations (educational, corporate, and other social networks), pointed out the high visibility of AO content in M spaces as a blocking concern for them. It is for *these* silent potential users we are making this change"
The voice you are NOT hearing on the forums (by definition) is the tens of thousands of current residents (customers by definition) that have not been notified of these changes.
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Safe, Sane & Consensual ~♥~ Live and Let Live
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Ryanna Enfield
Registered User
Join date: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 225
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04-25-2009 11:53
From: Sindy Tsure It was waaaaay back on page 50 of this thread.. Originally Posted by Blondin Linden ANSWER: what we are doing - a large experience that is 18+ with other material available by choice. Actually, it is - a large experience that is PG with other material available by choice. The "Program" makes Mature the new PG regardless of whether people participating are required to be over the age of 18.
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~*Ryanna Enfield*~
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Thorn Witrial
Registered User
Join date: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 237
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04-25-2009 11:54
Folks can more people respond to the posts on the forums at Xstreet? The lindens seem to be more active there. Meta Linden and Patsy Linden keep blipping in like every hour or so. And some of the other residents, who seem to just be realizing something is going on, are in serious need of information. I know they will not wade through all the nearly 4900+ posts in this thread to winnow out what we who have followed it all along have managed to distill. Please respond there. I'm afraid I've said so much, people are tuning me out. www.xstreetsl.com > Forums > General Discussion You'll know the threads when you see them. Thanks and bless, Thorn |
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Ayla Holt
Registered User
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 70
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04-25-2009 11:58
From: DanielRavenNest Noe -----------------------------------------------------------
Add that to my growing list of workarounds to the rules:
Deliberate mis-spellings and typography
Previous thoughts include:
*The description is clean, the photo in the listing is suggestive
*There are at least 47,000 synonyms for sexual terms, find one that's not on the banned words list
*Advertise something totally different:
"Make LOTS of MONEY" (which for an escort club, is completely true, the girls do make a lot of money, as such things go in SL)
------------------------------------------------------------------
What I do expect to see happen, is many businesses with part non-adult, and part adult, will simply split their stores, one part on mature land, one part on adult land, with teleports and instructions between the two parts.
"To see our adult pose balls, first make sure your account is verified (click this sign for instructions), then use this teleporter".
Its like having a back room in a video store, where the adult DVD's are, except in SL the "back room" does not have to be physically next door, it can be on an entirely different continent. LOL but will you be allowed to use the words "adult" or "balls"? Really how do they think they are going to manage to police the keywords? My newest store is called "Lotsa Balls" ......hmmmmmmmm wonder if I will have to change the name I guess it could be worse. I had thoughts of calling it happy balls, good balls and big balls. lol |
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samatha Congrejo
Registered User
Join date: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 188
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04-25-2009 12:03
Well Meta Linden's post got deleted so i am guessing they said or let slip somethign tehy were nto supposed to, but still, would love to know who all these Adult content providers are that were telling him they loved these changes and it is about time.
Also love the fact that Linden Labs cares more aobut the possible new custoemrs than the ones that spent all this money getting thme here.
Sort of thanks for supporting us all these years not go hide so we can sucker in a new bunch of users.
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Phoenix Welles
Multiple Avatar Disorder
Join date: 6 Jan 2007
Posts: 111
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04-25-2009 12:07
for some reason today reading this i had a flashback to one of my more fun engineering classes. too bad the problem solving steps I learned in that class were tossed out long before this proposal was ever made "public" (public in quotes cause really... it's freely available but not widely known) Useful for engineers, but also useful just to get minds thinking in different directions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIZnow back to packing some non-adult content... for once.  |
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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04-25-2009 12:11
From: samatha Congrejo Well Meta Linden's post got deleted so i am guessing they said or let slip somethign tehy were nto supposed to, but still, would love to know who all these Adult content providers are that were telling him they loved these changes and it is about time.
Also love the fact that Linden Labs cares more aobut the possible new custoemrs than the ones that spent all this money getting thme here.
Sort of thanks for supporting us all these years not go hide so we can sucker in a new bunch of users. Her post is still there.. |
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Dogboat Taurog
Registered User
Join date: 27 May 2008
Posts: 133
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04-25-2009 12:21
From Meta Linden:
"B) The voice you are NOT hearing on the forums (by definition) is the millions of new potential users we want to enjoy Second Life like you do, but aren't here yet. Surveys of people who tried SL but decided it wasn't for them, as well as feedback from new organizations (educational, corporate, and other social networks), pointed out the high visibility of AO content in M spaces as a blocking concern for them. It is for *these* silent potential users we are making this change"
silent potential users?
i suspect the "lindens" have had a pow-wow and applied 360 degree thinking out of the box replanning here.
what a load of bollocks. ground control to LL, the radio is malfunctio...
oh and i have boycotted xstreet, i'd rather find the creator and pay him or her the extra 5%.
(sorry if you only sell on xstreet, its not aimed at you).
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