Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Answers to Questions

But constant is the professional false smile since 100 years.

Not to mention those of us who go from one computer and remember "I was on post such-and-such of the thread". *sigh*

I would welcome a PG continent, I am not being evicted from my land. I have had PG land bordering a mature sim and it made my PG status meaningless, a gentlemen's club opened next door on the mature sim, nothing explicit on the outside or parcel description but it's not the sort of venture that should be neighbouring a PG parcel. The way PG and mature border each other now is silly.



If this was truly about improving choice then there would be no argument with having a PG continent and there would be no need for anyone to be required to move to either Ursula or the PG continent, forced moves are not about choice, however it's not about improving choice, this will pan out over time and mature land is really going to struggle in the long term to be anything more than PG.

are you going to allow account verification to pass to all the alt accounts tied to the verified one?

I don't particularly want to have to do piof for all of them, particularly since they're tied to the premium account.

I don't like the idea of a PG continent either, but as the owner of a mainland PG sim (most of one at least) I sure would like to see;

a) a better job of putting PG sims together on the grid.

b) a better job of enforcing the rules of a PG sim, without the need for people to AR their neighbors.

I asked some questions earlier about these changes as they related to existing PG sims. I know Blondin is swamped, and my questions are only loosely on topic ... but perhaps a different thread could be started where the few that are interested might have some discussion.

a good suggestion for PG sims would be to group them and then seperate them from mature sims by some sort of pleasing Linden content like water sims (oceans or Lakes), or mountain ranges. Not impassable but a clear demarkation.

An easy, quick way to do this would be great.

Imagine a simple blank space added to the paid account page. Or up to 10 blank spaces, in which the person could add an avatar (alt) name and corresponding password.

Naturally, a lot of security would need to be in place to prevent someone adding their ex's name in, or so on. Accountability, severe penalty, as well as counter measures such as signing in at a kiosk in world.

As for a fee: free (for a limited time if you wish, say during the Ursula changeover) add ins would be great, while the residents swallow this big nasty chunk the changes represent. But a dollar per alt would not be bad either. Or a one time $10 fee for adding in existing (x amount of) alts. PRESTO all verified all PIOF. And it will make it much easier for alts to shop anyway.

-- If the kiosk part happens though please LL make SURE the info typed in and reply is ONLY visible to the user. I've seen those roleplay sim sign in kiosks that ask for email and everyone else can see the response typed in.

I initially read the message about the proposed changes, and I took a hopeful but not too concerned view of things, and then I forgot all about it. My primary concern was to avoid having "Gonads-R-Us" setting up shop right adjacent to my mainland home, followed by Uncle Larry's Fetish Emporium on the other side and "U No U WanTit" Escort Agency attracting a steady stream of bargain hunters across my mainland property, which I'd like to keep publicly accessible.

I wouldn't mind were things kept tasteful. I've shopped at Bellingham "Lovers", and the store is across the street from where I live, and there's another 'adult' store not much further away. They are there, they are available to me if and when I want them, and they submit to a community standard of tastefulness writ into city ordinance. They seemed to have a decent set of clientelle, and nobody is shoving anything in anyone else's face with it. I would strongly object if they did, just as much as I would strongly object to a church organization. The right to freely swing one's fist, after all, must stop at someone else's nose.

I did note when I first decided to purchase land that SL did not offer any such 'community standards ordinance' for mainland. I ended up accepting the risk and buying land with good neighbors where I really don't have to worry about that problem. Much. You could sum it up with, "I've got mine, for now, good luck to the next person, and I hope it won't become me again." The proposals for adult content appear to resolve that problem, or so I thought, and I left the matter at that.

Lo and behold, I get an invite to some self-proclaimed "adult group" upset over the proposed changes. "Total Adult Content: We are adults on an adult grid and want to be treated as such. If you have a problem with that don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out." That's nice. "We behave childishly in demanding to be treated like adults. Give us our way or you must get out!" That's an interesting and useful place to begin a dialog, I suppose.

Then from another person I get a notecard: The New Regime - SL's Censorship. Quote: ...this is merely a note to give you information, it makes no claims over your opinion, if you choose a side or don't it's up to you...

Gee, really? You think, given the title of the notecard? Hrm... "Let me just back up a minute here and clarify. There is a faction (A minority one I might add) of very, very vocal residents on SL who have been lobbying for ages to "clean up" SL. You know them. They are the people who walk into your BDSM clubs and complain about the pictures on the walls and the chains on your girls. They are the "irate mothers/fathers/elderly" who come to dance in your rock clubs and protest at the profanity in your music. They are the ones who screamed at you when you walked into their club in a !PG! sim in a child avatar, calling you out for Age Play you never committed. And now they are at our throats with the Media and politicians who, having a slow news run, have decided to shine the light on SL once more, this time "exposing" its dirty laundry. Namely everything that makes this place fun for the majority of people here."

So I said to the person who gave me this... "Is this how you think of me? Is that the kind of person you think I am? Is that who you know me for?" The friend who expressed concern and horror over the proposed changes, mind you, commonly plays a *child* avatar, and she decided I don't fit the "Damned Puritan" description in the card very well. I also pointed her to http://users.tpg.com.au/users/horsts/baloney.html (Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit) and pointed out where the notecard fails miserably at being useful and constructive for information on what LL is actually trying to do based upon LL's web page on the topic and what has been said in the forum.

I don't care quite so much about the 'adult content' issue. I have 'payment info on file', and nothing I have seen so far, as documented officially, appears to change what I am doing or would wish to do. So my emotional reaction strictly on the proposals is along the lines of "Good! One less thing for me to worry about should my neighbors move or should I move to another spot." Like I said, I've got mine, and life is good.

However, I strongly dislike slander, misinformation, and general all-purpose baloney. I dislike people terrorizing my friends with lies and half-truths. I dislike being characterized as some sort of polyester churchgoing virgin for being in nominal support of the changes. The people behind the Baloney Notecard and the childish "Total Adult Content" wanted a knee-jerk emotional response from me... they have it.

Where is a group on SL dedicated to promoting a concise, intelligent discussion of the facts of this matter pointing to official Linden comments and statements, specific issues this change is meant to resolve, real and specific concerns over this change, real and factual content free of baloney upon which an SL Newbie can have a grasp of what is actually taking place? Whatever PR Linden Labs is spending and whatever credit they expect to have on this matter appears to be shot. People who I have spoken with who are neutral or positive on this issue are not aware of a 'grass roots campaign' towards a well researched, well documented, well reasoned gathering and disclosure of the facts by non-Lindens. As one person told me, we who would tend to look for such a thing tend not to be the sort of people who would start and run such a group. As for myself, I happen to agree that *I* would strongly prefer to not put myself out in front in demanding to be tarred & feathered out of SL by the people in hysteria over the proposals.

Perhaps there is someone scanning this forum who already has a website and is doing something. That would be great, and I would like to be involved in the research and independent confirmation of Linden's assertions, as well as the task of pointing hysterical people at facts and official statements they refuse to admit exist.

I'm really rather late to this party. I'm busy doing my own thing, and I didn't have a care about it until my friend in her child avatar form expressed grave concern over, "those damn nasty Puritans trying to ruin all our fun." Well, now I'm interested in being involved towards constructive dialog and an expression of valid concerns. So where can I help with this thing?

Nice.

Yes, but you have to understand that when you have the world in your hand, wouldn't you want to convert it to god's kingdom? It's the Second Coming, not just Second Life.

If they do that (and I actually agree, if at some future point LL does bring RL kids into Second Life) then what about people who are vacationing, ill, or taking a break from SL, and miss all of this?

People who are playing SL *now* do not realise the Ursula changes are about to happen. Ask people you meet today in SL. I've met maybe 1 person in 10 who knows about any of this at all.

So what happens if suddenly NPIOF are invalid? Will they be deleted, or simply frozen? I vote "frozen until next log-in": to do otherwise simply isn't fair. Imagine having spent RL thousands on your avatar and being unable to play for some time, and losing it because of changes you knew nothing of.

Romaq, I totally agree with you - and have been trying to keep this and the other threads somewhat more on-topic, but to be honest it seems pretty futile. I have seen very little respect for the other side's opinion - people have been dismissed summarily if their opinions didn't agree with that of the poster, or there have been very aggressive demands for proof that have not been reciprocated by the other side.

Misinformation is built upon, not dismissed, presumably in an attempt to get people more riled up.

The amount of hyperbole on these threads has, in my opinion, weakened any case against LL doing what they propose, and the fact that people just love to stray so totally off-topic in what is an official discussion with the Lindens is amazing. Routine complaints have been made that the Lindens don't communicate with residents enough, and the one thread where someone appears to be doing so is cluttered with large swathes of off-topic clutter, skepticism, and cynicism.

This IS a big change, and it will change what SL is. I would like to see a little more maturity in terms of how this is go forward.

This isn't going to happen for a few more months.

Under the current plan, NPIOF won't lock anyone out of SL, just out of the racy parts.

Milla - yes it was 'just in case' before any bad ideas set in.

People are understandably heated - for reasons most have gone into great detail over, details others then dismiss as "hyperbole."

I've noticed the ones for or neutral on the changes almost always also (smugly, imo) add: "It doesn't affect ME so I don't care."

As for "any case against LL doing" what they want - haven't you noticed? They are GOING to do it, the question is when and to some degree, how.

LOL if it was to happen of course i would agree with frozen rather than deleted but this was just my take on the situation and how i personally would like to see it go

So would most of the people in this thread but the "Lindens" are playing a game of orchestrated confusion, this "blondin linden" is also derelict in his duties to keep us informed of the situation so we are left in limbo. As one of many that have devoted a lot of time and money into Second Life and lost it i am outraged by their blase behaviour.

It is a truly disgusting way to treat the people who put the food on the "Lindens" tables.

Agree. Maybe we need Adult and PG threads At the same time, LL is getting this feedback for free, so maybe they don't mind sifting the stuff.

Aye. Few things are more adolescent than a mob demanding to be treated and respected as if they were all just individual adults behaving themselves.

What I hope to find is where someone prominent within the SL community, a non-Linden, has the cojones to have a website, link to facts, promote a research of the facts, independently verify statements or call it for the misstatement it is, and so on. I could do it, as a community nobody, but I think it would be much more powerful for someone relatively known and established. Of course, I could just as well ask someone to paint a target on themselves and stand in front of a firing squad, for all the net effect of it, and someone prominent is likely someone with a business to loose in the process.

But a well written ledger of LL statements and independently verified facts (as much as can be) would be useful. So would well written, intelligent concerns about the changes. Several people I spoke with who supported the changes expressed dismay and distrust with the third party age verification system. That's a problem getting lost in the noise. One of the accusations has LL of bald-faced lying about the numbers. Are they? How would one independently verify the statistics of the changes? If it were possible, would anyone attempt to do so and call Linden on downplaying the numbers? Wouldn't the truth be more useful to the community as a way to work with the changes than a screaming match where nobody is listening to anyone else? And I would define 'truth' in this case as that which can scrape past the baloney test with the link I mentioned earlier.

If Linden isn't playing straight, I'm all the happy to see them held accountable. But that notecard I received about this mess is really a piece of work. If Linden does mangle this thing, the people that made up that notecard are certainly worthy of their research investment.

Blondin, this may take work but either Aristotle aren't charging you atm (which means they are data mining and selling on) or they're charging as a bulk jobbie (I must admit I can't remember what their fee structure is). If they are charging you then by implementing whatever variation of this you chose you'll cut down to the costs to LL and of course it makes ll look better because the actual number of npiof/non verified will drop substantially.

you already allow a sort of linkage by making alts use the same email address as the primary. it shouldn't be too hard to run with it. I would suggest the common email address must stay ( to stop people verifying for friends) and then each account nominates the other for the link to work.


Go on, suggest it - it'll look good on your performance appraisal that you have directly saved the company some dosh.

I wouldn't deny that. This is also the reason some site trying to pull together the facts in this case would have to be non-Linden. Of those I have talked with, none of them suggested that Linden was very strong in credibility in dealing with this. The opinion is true even of those who support the plan. It is truly unwise to squander one's credibility.

The reason that people are getting all freaked out and posting alarmist messages and sending out alarmist notecards is that Linden Labs has been saying alarming things, and people are alarmed.

When people are alarmed, some of them will overreact.

The fact that some people are overreacting doesn't mean there isn't anything to be alarmed about.

I'm sure Carl Sagan wouldn't approve of you dismissing the issue because some of the people who are worried about the issue are flakes.

What proof do you think "the other side" needs to provide? For that matter, who is "the other side"? If you mean the people who are worried that when someone from Linden Labs says something alarming, they actually mean what they say, I'm not sure there's much more proof they can point to than that.

I"m not asking for unreasonable levels of proof mind you, but some examples would be nice.

No, actually the reverse is true. It's much HARDER, if not impossible, to create an alt with the same e-mail as an existing account! If you don't have a unique e-mail address for each alt, the attempt to create the alt often fails. About the only way to make an alt use the same address as an existing account is to change the alt's e-mail address after account creation.

More than a little lack of respect for proponents of the policy stems from the fact that some individuals have been using it to troll these threads.

There seem to be very few people honestly in favor of it, instead of just using it as an excuse to get some yuks.

It is impossible to have a constructive dialogue with a cold stone wall, and that is what LL is giving us. They have refused to give us most of the "facts" in the matter. Such as the actual reasons for them proceeding with this course. Such as why the course is set in stone and won't be changed, no matter what reasonable and cautious objections are raised. Such as what methodology and criteria were used to obtain a figure that this would only affect "2% to 4% of the parcels in SL". Their public statements have been vague, contradictory, or just plain impossible. While they have answered a few easy questions, many of the harder ones lie ignored. Or get answered in ways that raise even more fear and distrust, such as when people ask what will be done to prevent land speculators from buying all available Adult land in Ursula, and raising prices to extortion levels for anyone who wants or needs to move, but who LL doesn't grant a free move to, and Blondin curtly replies that land speculation is not against the rules.

If people are beginning to act anxious, and hysterical, look to how Linden Lab has been orchesrating this. They have done virtually NOTHING to quell such fears and hysteria, while their actions throw gasoline on the flames.

I would love nothing more than to have a rational discourse on this issue. So would many, if not most, of the concerned people in this thread. But the Lindens are not making that possible.