Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

I have to bounce out of here for a while but I'll end here for today:



No where yet. I would assume the process would be something like a support ticket.



I guess we would have to



Estate owners won't need to physically separate adult content. They just need to mark the entire region as adult. What that means is that if they want to have both adult and mature content on their estate, they will need to either have multiple regions in the estate - one adult, one mature, or they will need to mark the whole thing as adult



I may not have understood the question. I understood this as "Would I be able to acquire more land than I currently have to fit everything after the move. Is this what you meant?

I have a friend with a few hundred thousand L$ of no-copy artwork that will love this plan..

Blondin...

Is your name REALLY Eliza Linden?

It may just be me but thats EXACTLY how your responses have been phrased it is tantamount (for me) to saying "blah blah Blah" and denies ALL Lindens of respectibility.

(ps forgive me for the VERY obscure reference from the dark ages (but betting just like your 'humor' that a substancial number reading this forum WILL 'get it')

Apologies to the generally interested in this solution process for taking up valuable page space

Day by day...i feel the same wishes and desires.
I wait patiently for that new "Utopia" to arrive one day.

My recent post on moving a large build:

/327/7a/313476/1.html#post2367166

And from this thread, on the complexities involved in moving a complex build:

/352/01/312352/89.html#post2367667

Hmmm thanks now i can see a more logical reasoning behind LL's decision. Tiering up only benefits thier coffers.

I had to read what Blondin was replying to a few times before understanding why he would say what seemed like just about the worst possible thing he could say.

He was responding to somebody asking if they could tier up during the move - if they could move and end up with, _on purpose_, more m2 than they started with and at a new tier level.

edit: you should really edit that response, Blondin - you're never going to hear the end of it if you leave it like that..

Just for consideration - Please, Blondin, pass this on to the technical teams considering how this may be implemented. If its doable it will address a lot of peoples concerns over relocation.

Phase 1: Signup.

Everyone who needs/wants to be relocated to the AO continent signs up with the slurl of their mainland parcel(s). To be eligible a parcel must be in a mature region, must not be for sale and the owner (or at least one group officer, if its group owned) must be eligible to access the AO regions. Allow a minimum registration period of one month. You can do this through a fairly simple web app.

Phase 2: Consolidation.

Once the registration period is over extract the parcel data from your database and identify all those mainland regions where more than 50% of the area (excluding any protected land, such as water or linden roads) is requesting relocation.

Phase 3: Construction.

Duplicate those regions you identified in phase 2, including their current terraforming, as the basis for the new continent. They dont have to be placed in the same relative location on the new place but you'll still have to stitch them together with additional regions so that the terraforming lines up. That will give you more land than you need for phase 4.

Phase 4: Conversion.

Allocate the identical parcel(s) on any duplicated region to those who requested relocation. From the additional land available (parcels that didnt request relocation on duplicated regions and the additional regions you created to stitch the duplicated ones together) offer equivalently sized parcels to those who requested relocation but were not on a duplicated region. At the end of this phase, cease billing tier on parcels that are being relocated and begin billing on the newly allocated holdings.

Phase 5: Reconciliation.

Cut the remaining unallocated land into 512 sqm parcels. Allow those who are being relocated to buy enough of those 512s to no more than double their holding in the same region at base mainland market value if they so desire. During this phase residents will also be taking care of moving their content. Again, allow a month for this phase and where possible offer residents the option of having all content on a given parcel relocated via database changes rather than manually (likely only practical on duplicated regions)

Phase 6: Separation.

At the end of phase 5, reclaim all relocated parcels on the current mainland that have not already been abandoned to Governor Linden by their previous owner. Recombine unclaimed parcels on the new continent, cut as you see fit and release them to the open market.

I respectfully disagree with your use of the 'censorship' word.
I suggest you to check the 'censorship' definition on Wikipedia or your favourite dictionary.

Words lose their meaning and their importance/value when they're misused.

Corporations changing terms of their service is not censorship.
Reporting users because they infringe terms of a private service is not censorship.
Deleting (or not allowing) comments in my personal blog is not censorship.
Banning someone from land I own in Second Life is not censorship.

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Police_raid_home_of_Wikileaks.de_domain_owner_over_censorship_lists
This is censorship.
Real, f**king censorship.

again:
Words lose their meaning when they're misused.


nothing against you, Karin - simply, this one is a topic I really care to.

PS
And I don't even touch the 'fascist state' reference you made, I'll only say that I'm from Italy and we had a civil war here because of fascism. I don't think we'll start a civil war because of the zoning in our favourite virtual environment.

Seems to me a bit of confusion is in play here...Mature content means adult in most definitions of the word.
Also the Sims are already rated...why do the few have to try and dictate to the many?
Maybe we should be sure that those that do not wish to view "Adult" content are set a seperate continent...and they may CHOOSE to go there, NOT CHOOSE to come to an aarea THEY DON'T wish to see...

Having a hard time swallowing this one....

Ronche Bigbear

Freedom of choice is just that A CHOICE, no one forces anyone to go to a mature area...

Welcome back Blondin ... we missed you.

I don't own an adult business, or anything that might be labeled as adult ... and while feeling compassion for those that will be uprooted, my main concern is what will be done with the vacated land. A mass fire-sale or auction would have a serious impact on those that have already seen property values fall on the mainland, and already see the sea of yellow on the map.

My tact is not to ask for an answer, but instead ask for a possible timeline of when there will be some answers.

---------

On the suggestion side, has "The Lab" considered more than one level of adult, one that would only be allowed to verified users, and one that would not? Something like Single-X and Triple-X. I can't say I have every really been to a SL strip club, but do know some folks that one one ... nice people really, very reasonable folks. After reading some threads here, I asked them a few direct questions. They have fifteen dancers, and one is verified. Over the past few days they have been keeping count, and about 85% of their clients are not verified. Their thinking is that your new policy would pretty much crush all strip clubs.

Respectfully submitted ...

Current terraforming *and* content. That is, do a backup and rollback of the entire terraformed and built-up sim onto the new region, then delete the duplicate content from both sims.

That would work, and would nicely take care of content moves on those regions where it would be practical. Large landholders - ie the folks who have 1/2 or a full region for mainland clubs etc would be kept whole by this process and anyone needing to relocate with them would also benefit, as would the folks in the situation where their holdings dont rise to this threshold but do when combined with other relocatees in the same region.

Originally posted by Blondin Linden:

"We always intended Second Life to be a platform that could be used for the widest range of applications as possible. And as Second Life has grown in size, the diversity of its Residents has also grown. As such, we need to support everyone's needs and choices. This is why we have made this decision"

This is pure NewSpeak.

You ALREADY have a platform that "can be used for the widest range of applications as possible." Everything from IBM to Fancy Nancy's Fairy FroliXXX is here already.

SL ALREADY supports everyone's "needs and choices". Hundreds of us have already pointed out that you are proposing to take AWAY choices. It's Nany's *choice* as to whether she visits a PG sim or a sex club on a Mature sim. It's my choice if I go to a philosophy discussion at Metanomics or a wild nude party. We HAVE choice.

What you really mean is, "a few puritanical prudes want to impose their view of the world on everyone, and we are going along with it because it will get us favorable press."

This is a bad decision. This is a bad decision. This is a bad decision. We've given you better alternatives many times in the last several weeks. Unmake your bad decision and trade it for a better one.

oki ... well what i see in this situation is :

1) Linden is going to limit the adult content in a game that should be only played by adults...

cool we adult will be forced to play like kids


2) Linden is giving way to the lobbyist who claim they can't avoid the content thy dislike in a way a minority of people just becaus they talk loud are right... yet ovet the thousands of sims and lands and clubs and other area why do those people only find the things that the majority like and that they dislike... they have to be searching them. after all if they were not willing to see it they would not come on purpose in these clubs to come and spam like hell that all this is naughty filthy not in accord with their religion and so on.

3) Linden is giving right to people who violate the TOS by putting real life religion into the game and forcing others to play as THEY and THEIR belief wants. as far as i remember when reading the TOS of Second Life i saw a passage saying that NO ONE shall put 1st Life Religion or Belief as a reason to prevent or restrict anyone way of playing.

I agree we need some morality in a way, age play is something quite problematic when it is really age play and not someone who like to have a small avatar. yet can the owner of a club be held responsible because a guy who went on his own mind in the club disliked the furnitures because they might be gothic or BDSM orientated, disliked the music because it is not to his tastes come and go to complain to the moderators to the developers to the world. i mean who made him go to the club? he was the only one to decide that. then why do we others people who might like this things have to pay for them? in first life if someone goes to a BDSM club ( and yes it also exist irl) they should know what to expect there same if they enter a sex shop. do we put a law to forbid those shops and clubs?

now those people have their own way of life their own opinions and their own tastes. do we ask them not to have them? no we dont we let them choose it and if they want they are free to go to any club they want that suit their tastes they can even build them if they want. why do those people restrict our taste? why would we be restricted to a small area of the game because of our way of life? doesn't it ring a bell to many people that some persons are resticted and parked in areas because of their belief, taste, way of life? i am French and i remember from history classes that in Europe it happened once and that Americans came to fight this thing, that americans fought in the world for Freedom of opinion.

it is in their Declaration of Independence one of their most sacred text "We hold these thruths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

why then a few people are limitating the Liberty and pursuit of Happiness of others in a game that is made by amercians?

when the suprem court voted many times against such presure groups who in the 1960s wanted to ban people from places, jobs, etc on the only basis of their skin, their religion, their gender or their way of life. i cant believe we who play gorean, who play BDSM, who play gothic or play things that some people dont like will be segregated to a special area of the game because of our belief and way of life.


do we need to check that players are really adult, well yes if only to make sure no underaged player comes and might indeed find themselves in front of things they shall not legally see.

now to restrict some players who are adults and who are legally free to see the contents of these clubs sims and land labeled as 'adult' or 'mature' and force them to play only in a small area is not really something good. 1) it is not really a proof of freedom and is violating the rights brought to us by the American laws themselves. 2) we already do our way of lives in the sims and clubs we like and dont go into the PG areas or areas we dont like because they dont meet our way of lives so we limit ourselves already in a way. 3) the biggest problem i see in game is the people who ask for this control are in fact people who come on their own in the area they dislike to complain to spam to try to convert people to THEIR way of life which is normally forbidden by the Lindens Term of Sevices. when these people do not simply goes to biggest actions such as act of piracy, hacking and so. and who if we look carefully could be reported to lindens for "Intolerence" (yes it is one of the reason you could be reported for) "harrassment / defaming individual or group".

in other word Lindens with this mesure are simply giving right to violate those 2 rules they have brought and are supposed to defend the players on.

I play gorean and BDSM, am i insane? no i do it only in sims that are gorean and BDSM, i dont go to pg areas to play it i dont go in normal clubs to play it. it is my choice. as those who dont like these game have the choice not to go in these areas.



on this note i would like to remind Lindens that the majority of products, incomes and buisnesses that flourish in Second life are those around the so labelled "mature and adult" content, the BDSM and the Gorean areas. limit this and you will find the game quite empty fast.

Been suggested many times. Zero response, only further discussion of the plans already laid out by LL. They are further along in this process than "asking for feedback" would suggest and all indications are that this option, of creating a purely PG environment, is already off the table or was never on it to begin with.

Then build a puritan PG continent containing all the Welcome centres there.....what part of this solution cannot LL grasp? I must have read 100's of posts here alone that suggested the same solution!

Then let us all know what your current line of thinking is regarding adult classification, how you may carry out any moves to the new adult continent etc.
Be open with any thoughts you yourselves have currently before they are set in stone, this will give the residents a chance to respond directly to areas of specific concern.



My definition of what should be adult.
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I would like to see adult defined as any rl pornographic photos and video.
There are businesses in world set up just to sell rl porn or charge for access to it.
Very little thought went into the construction of most of these places.
Why use SL to access it anyway? its easy enough on the internet.

Any real life horrific pictures should be deemed adult in nature also.

Any sex orgy room or escort service with entirely open access to all residents.

Any area with only purpose of giving some sort of pleasure due to acting out horrific violent scene.

Public displays of sexual activity by an individual, but should be the individuals responsibility if reported not provider of animation etc.

What I do not wish to be classified adult.
-----------------------------------------------

Shops selling animations whether sexual or not, sexbeds, skins, xcite etc.

Erotic art, even if it depicts some sort of tame sexual activity of any orientation.

Role play areas where people access a non violent or sexual area where information of role play type is given prior to accessing anything of a more mature nature.
These areas could be Gorean, FemDom, Vampire have a homosexual theme as long as role play is at the fore front of activity and there is a gradual introduction to any sexual or violent side of the roleplay.


Any private content held within a private home area.

Strip clubs where no sex takes place.


Reasons for non adult classifications.
------------------------------------------
I have probably missed loads of things but have atleast made a start.

There is obviously a fine line between erotic art and porn, my definition of porn is modern photos or video showing one person drilling another harsh and graphic for instance.
My definition of art is where thought was used in the photography, clever use to bring feeling into a photograph etc.

Shops selling things that can be used in a mature sexual manner should be exempt from adult classification as they are merely providing inanimate objects, which offend no one however puritan until they are used.

Role play should be open to all, if desired.
If nothing initially offends then a gradual immersment into the type of role play actually gives the chance for people to say this is not for me, I don't like this sort of thing etc. before coming accross anything that could be deemed offensive.
So by the time people are fully immersed and experiencing anything of a sexual or violent nature they have made that choice and effectevely this keeps that part of the role play private within the area.
ie. private home type scenario.

Another really great suggestion that would be an excellent starting point.

Lindens: can you say why the very first community standard's first sentences are not being upheld? Which Linden should we AR?



It seems you are doing that by not tolerating a segment of the community and trying to marginalize them from SL as a whole. Which also detracts from the community as a whole.

BTW ...


Sort of says it all?


See my note on standard 5.

Or are the community standards just marketing hype?

Are you sure about this? Are you sure it's a region level flag and that they don't indeed need to make different estates for each region?

Is there really any point to this or are you paying us lip service? I see you pandering to certain interests in meetings and very little concrete information coming here. This isn't a dig at you Blondin, but LL's participation in these threads has been poor.

I agree with what you are saying. I pay for my account and I dont feel it is fair if i have sense enough to click off the mature label in search, leave a club if its not what i like, leave an area, that is not appealing to me, or just not go there if it offends me, then all should and could do the same. Why do we have to be boxed into a specific area because we like to play on our term. Personally I dont feel they (the complainers, unable to tp out monitor their own travels in SL) should have any say in where most of the places I like to go are placed. I think a more simple place would be to lump them in a place and let us place and shop as we see fit. At least we have sense enough to leave it we find a picture offensive or hey just dont look, dont impose your thoughts on me. YOU have no right.
Smiles GOR, NoR, and other lover.

LL says they want to make everyone's Second Life experience more predicatble. OK, let's take that to its logical conclusion.

1. Remove anonymity. Every resident is given their own Real Life name, and an avatar corresponding to their Real Life gender.

2. Remove all resident-generated content. Only Linden-approved content will be used. This has the added advantage of greatly reducing the load on the asset servers. Sims won't be overloaded with all those weird prims, textures, and scripts.

3. Remove economic uncertainty. Land will no longer be sold, except by LL. Everyone who owns land will pay tier directly to LL, in real currency.

4. Remove the linden dollar. Since residents won't be creating and selling their creations any more, the $L is redundant. Keep XStreet open, and let residents purchase Linden-approved items there for real world currency.

There you go, Blondin. Safe, clean, predictable.

Say...does any of that remind you of IMVU? Isn't that being described these days as an Epic Fail? Never mind that, though. Gotta have predictability.

Sorry Shockwave I wasn't clear about what I meant.

If you are Payment on File, that means LL has a record in their system (albeit a secure server) with your credit/debit card number, expire date, your real name, real address, and perhaps phone# linked to your avatar name and account. This is used to verify the card when you purchase $L such as during the World->Buy Lindens action or when they automatically bill you for land or annual subscription. I'm not thinking about the contents of my inventory or whether some Linden can access the Linden Transaction History and see what I spent my Lindens on. I am thinking about the actions your avatar takes and the relationships it develops in the "adult content" world.

Lets say your avatar is a notorious hussy and is well known, but in RL you are a ceo, a politician, a lawyer, or a young, female, creative talent in a media company Now lets say there is a breach and the customer list is in the open. This kind of security leak occurs all the time and with firms that are much more focused on preventing the leaks. (The CAD plans for the new NAVY1 helicopter (us presidential helicopter) just turned up on a file sharing program with copies as far away as Iran.)

Aristotle has a similar problem with the added potential of data mining or other unknown use of the information. There are internet companies that specialize in compiling lists and making links to profile potential customers. They live for this kind of stuff.

I have an account that is payment verified, but i never use it in anyway that I would not want broadcast on public TV linked to my real name. There are many people just like me, but have many different reasons for protecting their privacy. Second Life, in its current form, lets them cut loose without fear of recrimination.

Now, I am no expert on this stuff. I get it all from my amazingly cute, sk8terboy computer nerd bf. He "writes firewall code" and "shttp interconnect protocols" and i don't know what all, which to me means the same thing as "magic fire sword spells" and "quantum warpcore transporter engines" but I trust him.

I also had a very unfortunate personal experience in the early days of voice chat that I won't bore everybody with, but lets just say, being identified in the RL when doing something naughty in SL can be very embarrassing.

/me still blushes

You mean the same sort of confidence when LL decided that FREE accounts would be an awesome idea.....now you've slammed the "reverse" gear and asknig all those same FREE accounts to go and get verified one way or another!

Shouldn't LL just admit that allowing FREE accounts back in 2006 was a huge mistake and contributed to a lot of the current problems (Bots, grifeing, teenagers sneaking in)

With that in mind and given LL's previous track record, what's to say this new proposal of an "Adult continent" is another dumb%ss idea!