Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Your wires jumped out of your neck like mine along the weekend Hehehehe

But, yes, they have a talent to stress us customers to death, I do understand you very well

Anybody get invited to one of these in-world meetings? What happened? Productive or content-free?

Since when has LL listened to anyone unless it benefited them?

I still don't see why the people who want this change can't be moved to this new land. It would be so much simpler and a lot less people would be affected. Maybe because it makes too much sense?

Lori

I think this number is about 98% on this message board, but closer to 50/50 in-world, at least among people I know. Granted, not a very accurate sample group, but probably as accurate as a message board.

By the way, if there are legal issues behind this, and I suspect there are - one thing you can be sure of ... the company is not able to discuss it in an open forum.

I confess, I haven't read all 300 odd pages here. However, I detect a yawning gulf in comprehension. The headlines here talk about adult content being "sex OR violence". This is a conflation - that is, it lumps in together two utterly different activities.

In my view, having had a 20 year career in sex activism, the net, and in Real Life, I think there are two tribes we are dealing with here.

1) Sex. More likely to be adult than anything else. More likely to be male; and more likely to be playing to some kind of personal social taboo agenda, than anything else. That means they are dabbling with The Forbidden, whatever their social context might be: if you move the social context, so the definition of Forbidden moves with it. This is easily provable by the rise of "erotic smokng", especially in the US, over the last decade: as it has become more of a taboo, so it's become more erotic. To a lot of people in repressed societies, taboo *is* erotic.

2) Violence. More likely to be juvenile, than anything else. More likely to be male, but by no means a dead cert (ho ho). It's almost as if the absence of eroticism in a straightforward way, elevates violence to take it's place. Studies of post-war literature (especially the James Bond book series) now strongly suggest that this is a very 20th century malaise - but wherever it comes from, the fact is that it's taken hold and seem de facto. If you can't F**k 'em, fire at 'em.

If you agree with each of those observations, then it seems to me that the juvie grid is one packed with weaponry and shooting; and the adult grid is very peaceful, but very pervy. This segregation is at 90 degrees to the categories imposed by the Lindens and explain - before any other details are considered - why their initiative as presented, is doomed to failure. I can see why they might have made this conflation, because a lot of sex-negative types have put a lot of effort into (fundamentally) making up the connection between the two, mostly on a platform of rhetoric founded on the whole Violence Against Women thing...

The way I like to look at it is, it's not "sex and violence". it's "sex, violence and ignorance" - you can't address the concerns of a vague and uninformed group of spectators when they set an agenda that's just nowhere near the reality.

They never discussed anything in a way that we would have an influence on decisions. And the forum... - the forums are hidden from the rest of the world, like a 1500 years old cloister or an abbey in the french pyrenean-mountains.

The Brown Bag meeting a few days ago had an invitation sent out on the SL Developer's mailing list. Unfortunately, they only sent out the invitation about 1 day in advance of the meeting, so many concerned developers, such as myself, didn't get the invitation or didn't read it until after the meeting was already over. (Much of the SL-Dev e-mails are irrelevent except for a small contingent of people interested in a specific topic, and are not time-sensitive, so I don't tend to read that mail stream every single day.)

A three post transcript of the meeting is burried way back in this thread. I read the whole thing... Lots of people asked pointed questions, and Blondin stonewaled them on everything. The only point that Blondin raised that seemed useful new information was that they don't expect to have a working definition of what is affected until at least another week from now. And yet they stick stubornly to their assertion that even without a valid definition of what this witch-hunt will run out of town and isolate on the pornotopia continent, tat it will still only affect 2% to 4% of the mainland content.

Can't define what they are hunting, yet they claim to know just how much content will be affected? That is pure BS, to me.

Thanks.. Sounds like pretty much exactly what most people expected... :\

edit: if somebody happens to know where those transcripts are hidden - I ain't wading through all the nanyspam to find them - I'll update post 2 of this thread with links..

I've missed a days worth of reading all this. Has there been any word from any linden representative about the "When" this is all going to take place? Will we as Mainland owners even get a time of departure? I am serious. I need info. Are we talking next week..next month, in the fall? This has already been affecting business. I don't want to drag this out for months and months and one day get word I have 3 days to close up.

It's a surprise!! You wouldn't want them to spoil that, would you??

No. There's been no word of what, when or why.

hey, hey, HEY!
It's just a pimp stabbin his trick...it happens all the time

I've been in SL now almost 4 years, and seen alot of things/ideas come and go. But this one I really don't understand. The draw of SL was the fact that it was "worlds created by the players, for the players" or what ever the initial tag line was back then, it was along those lines. We were given the TOS, and "allowed" to enjoy our Second lives as long as they fit with those terms of service. Policing ourselves, and given the tools to do so. Don't get me wrong, I am all for a governing force of sorts, but one of the key reasons for being in SL is the ability to enjoy things that people may not be able to in RL, and escape some of the grief and BS that we encounter in our every day RL lives.

Tooly Kanarek said it best:
"We don't come here for a RL experience, we come to live a SECOND life where you can experience things and enjoy things that you wouldn't normally be able to, or be comfortable with in RL.

Why penalise the majority to "protect" the interests of a minority puritans. That is exactly what is going wrong with the world in RL these days!

Nobody is forcing anyone to play this game, or to visit mature/adult areas. If you don't like what you see move on. Go play a cute, cuddly & boring game that is designed specifically for kids or wowzers (which I doubt that many would do).

I feel the only censorship required is to have maybe an additional "adult" flag for sims and then it should be up to the people that don't like mature/adult content to opt out of visiting those places.

The puritans are the ones with the problem, so the onus is on them to control THEIR activities, not the rest of us normal, well adjusted, fun loving residents."

It shouldn't be MY job to make sure you are having, what you would consider, a comfortable SL experience, it should be YOUR job to do so. If you go somewhere and see nudity and don't like it, tp out. If you see boobies and they make you uncomfy, tp out. If you go somewhere and see anything you don't like, tp out. SL is huge, and contains alot of different things for people in all kinds of ways. Don't see what you like, search on until you do. What's so difficult about that?

Why not add some new client preferences and land flags?

If someone doesn't want to see anything adult (Puritan), they select that preference to warn or block attempt to enter such places.

Any place that contains content that may be considered adult (Permissive) must flag their land as such.

The Puritans that try to TP to an adult area would be warned or blocked. The default mode could even be Puritan.

No adult verification mechanism is required for this opt-in approach, since you must be 18+ to even create an account.

If they wanted to go further, make one-way view walls appear on the borders of any mainland Permissive parcels. The LL Morality Police could warn or lock a parcels Permissive flag if there were too many complaints.

These simple changes would certainly be easier to implement than the planned diaspora.

I would let *them* do the work. They can build too - so.... I would not activate a single finger for them. You pay for your land, for the specific conditions on your land. If they want people to move, then they can do the service to rebuild all items of each and everyone exact and without mistakes, plus the environment conditions - and all what is needed for the customers biz, by themselfs.

All in all I recommend to everyone, to *not* move. Not a single millimeter. General strike, no one moves - and they cannot ban thousands of customers, it would ruin them - so: strike, resistance and ready.

Their job, not ours.

It seems to me from reading the posts and from what i have seen in SL that there is MUCH more adult content (in its various forms) that any other kind of content. So my question is, why not allow the residents with adult content to stay where they are and only move those with no adult related content to a new region/land and just put those places all together in one place?

This will STILL allow LL to motinor/give people a choice on what they want to see because all the non-adult content will be in its own seperate place. This seems like a far better solution that trying to define what adult/mature is and then making people who have for example shops with skins, or pictures of a bare breat on their wall in their home to sex/orgi/vampire/BDSM/escort/strip/etc. to remain where just where they are. If the majority is this adult/mature content in SL, the it seems better and like the most logical thing to do is move the rest to one place and not have 2 or 3 regions and try to pack everyone is some catergory that probably is noit right for them and for those with trully innocent "mature" content (i read a post with a mother/business woman who is an artist who does not want to be put in an island with people who run around with their penisis hanging out just because she sells some erotic art).

Move the non-adult/mature content to its own place. Allow the mature/adult content to remain where it is at.

Then by doing this you can also leave and open invitation for sims that would like to come over to new region (if they really DONT have any kind of serious mature/adult content- this being monitored/regulated by LL). Giving people an option is far better than forcing them to do something they dont want and perhaps dont even need to do.

Moving the non-adult/mature places into one place and allowing the mature/adult content sims to remain where they are, while giving those who would like to move to the new region who dont have adult/mature content, i feel is a better option, better solution to all of this. You can even just try it for a while, see how it works and if it in the end really does not work THEN you can lump the mature content into its own land as well.

Thanks,
Jovial D.

I would not feel it would be a wise choice just to sit back do nothing and wait for me to come online one day to my land wiped clean.

I am a business woman, this isn't just about me. I have many that work in my club awaiting answers. I have to think about whats best for them as well as everyone that visits my place regularly. I will probably wait until I hear word but I am one of those that need to have all my apples lined up accordingly in the basket. Every T crossed, every i dotted.

This move "when" it happens is going to take time. I can't be prepared in a day. I will need time to get everyone "legal Adults" that work for me. Yes, some have been working on it. We've had open discussions on "where do we go from here?". But everything is on hold awaiting word.

And IF I chose to buy a Private sims will it still be as strict as the Adult mainland. Is this just effecting Mature mainlands now? I have a lot of questions that need answering and not a dang linden around to ask. No one has answers. Anyone else trying to take this and be serious and preparing? What should I do NOW to prepare for this?

Congratulations and welcome to the forum. You are in good company and many thousand people supporting your idea, including me.

But unfortunaly has LL a specific spleen: as more intelligent ideas one provides to them and as more intelligent questions one asks, as more they go into opposition and in silent and ignorant stonewall-mode.

Additional they found archangel Blondin who walks around with fire and sword to fulfill the holy mission of Lord M to drive any possible percent "sin" out of our poor, lost souls.

This is what happens here.

Before anyone foolishly quotes the above, I wrote it - not Blue Linden. I did so to provide an example of how Linden Lab is squandering the intelligence, dedication and goodwill of its residents. The fora would be 50% shorter and 100% more productive if the company had the wisdom to treat its residents as an intellectual goldmine rather than a herd of cattle. Forgive my sharpness, but no business succeeds without consulting the customer BEFORE a major change in business practices. No army conquers with low morale. I am not promoting democracy here. I am simply asking for Henry V instead of Hamlet.

These pages once again groan under the weight of hair-splitting detail concerning the best method of classifying sexuality within Second Life. Again, Linden Lab asks the wrong question.

Background:

The establishment of anonymous accounts in June 2006 opened the doors to underage players. This resulted in international legal scrutiny, increased exposure to legal liability and damaging media coverage. Linden Lab responded by intruding into residents' sexual relationships and expelling two consenting adults for underage roleplay - even though no underage players were involved. Refusal to close the anonymous accounts and dogged insistence on an ineffective and unsound ID-based age verification system cost Linden Lab considerable political capital with no benefit.

Many of us who came into SL in 2006 (and brought money with us) were horrified by the policy changes of 2007. The deal was that LL would provide a basic property rights structure and act solely as a referee in property disputes. We sighed with relief when LL reassured us that they had no intention of applying overarching codes of morality on the community. I also vividly recall LL announcing that we there would be no change in gambling policy. Then came 2007 and bitter disappointment. All the reassurances given only weeks before were abandoned as Linden Lab slammed the gearshift into reverse. For thousands of people, the trust and faith they had in Linden Lab was badly damaged.

During 2008, the company's reputation slowly began to recover. Yes, the openspace pricing model was flawed and, yes, there was a second round of mainland supply problems, but at least LL were not bungling policy anymore. The micro-parcel issue was resolved within reason. LL seemed to be developing the ability to handle complex issues...then bang! We are back to square one with a crude policy on social behavior.

The Right Question:

The right question, then, is a) how best to prevent underage players from mingling with adults and b) how best to zone the mainland in a tolerant and efficient manner? Needless to say, eliminating anonymous accounts solves the first part of the problem. Instead of creating a complicated system of filters to prevent kids accessing adult content, keep them out of SL altogether.

As for the second part, when constructing the mainland, Linden Lab established a patchwork of Mature and PG sims such that a loud BDSM club can open next to a quiet, residential home. The introduction of a third sim type, 'Adult', though badly named (all SL is adult by definition) - let us call it 'Xtreme' instead - makes sense. Constructing an 'Xtreme' continent and allowing residents to migrate there - at their own choosing, at their own pace - also makes sense. It may take a year or two, but I believe most 'Xtreme' players will prefer to be free of the moral harassment they receive from PG residents.

The New Problem:

As has been known since the dawn of time - articulated again recently by the US Supreme Court - one man's obscenity is another man's beauty. To attempt to codify the wide range of human social norms into a regulatory system is counterproductive. At best, it will generate high monitoring and enforcement costs; at worst, it will lead to confusion and conflict within the SL community.

Context and Perspective:

1. Second Life is VIRTUAL, VOLUNTARY and ADULT

Seeking to apply RL standards to a virtual world is silly. There is no safer place on Earth than the privacy of your RL home. It is voluntary in that one must sign up for an account and it is adult in that everyone in SL is an adult (or should be). That means one has passed through puberty, has learned to relate to people and become responsible for one's decisions - including the decision to be in a virtual world with other adults. As an adult, one recognizes and accepts that people have different styles and tastes and that rudeness or harassment should not be confused with sexuality.

2. Creativity needs VARIETY, COMPLEXITY and SYNERGY

Second Life is unique in catering to a broad, international population of adults. Because of its richness and diversity, SL attracts a wide range of entrepreneurs who provide a wide range of services to a wide range of residents. The organic nature of this mix is itself creative. The functionality of a BDSM collar may benefit another entrepreneur making improvements to a 'PG' hugger; Gorean silks may generate new ideas in traditional fashion design; techniques learned to make vampire animations are transferable to dance animations. As for 'deviant' behavior, Penicillin was the result of dirty dishes. Post-It notes were a mistake. Lord Byron was a scoundrel. Virginia Woolf was a manic-depressive. Alan Turing was a homosexual. History is littered with the corpses of the brilliant heretics.

The founders of Second Life understood this. They recognized the organic nature of the IT industry and that 'creative destruction' had to be embraced rather than shunned. They were amazed by the fall of IBM and inspired by the Burning Man festival in the desert of Nevada. They built Second Life - against all the odds - and it was hugely successful. Sadly, in 2007, the regulators, lawyers and bureaucrats arrived. All this organic stuff had to go, they said. The time had come to strip away risk and uncertainty, to seek the lowest common denominator and penetrate the mass market. I summarized the spirit of this new direction in my profile: "In the name of safety and security and to protect residents from themselves, all activities requiring intelligence and maturity will be banned."

3. Don't micromanage the rainforest

Getting rid of snakes may seem like a good idea, but they play a vital role in the natural ecology/economy. Without the snakes, there are too many rodents. Importing hawks to solve the rodent problem disrupts other birds, causing a new problem. Soon, like a vast cascade of dominoes, the whole ecosystem goes out of balance. Hiring 1000 managers and forming new committees to provide more control only makes things worse. In an ever-descending spiral, the managers scramble to repair the ever-increasing damage until the rainforest is finally paved in concrete. Problem solved.

Conclusion:

While my criticisms may seem harsh, I feel it imperative to warn Linden Lab of the long-term consequences of 'cleaning up' Second Life. Yes, improvements can be made in the property rights structure to enable residents greater privacy and control - I am very much in favor of this - but Linden Lab does not seem to realize that the lowest common denominator is poison for any creative enterprise.

I implore Linden Lab to note the howls of protest against this new policy drowning out those voices raised surreptitiously beforehand in its favor. Please reflect on the nature of the world you have created - that became a wonder BEFORE you began meddling with it. Please remember that Second Life is VIRTUAL, VOLUNTARY and ADULT and understand that Disneyfication will buy you at best a temporary advantage before the whole edifice slides gently into banality.

We can play this game until the end of time. Nany will have a different set of definitions. In fact, there are probably as many possible sets of definitions as there are residents. Even if you were to get general agreement on a California set of definitions and the folks in Ohio manage to get general agreement on their definitions, there would still be as many sets of definitions as there are countries and cultures in the world.

The term 'adult' is employed with an Anglo-American bias to mean 'pornographic', but in the rest of the world, the term 'adult' means grown-up - not childish. The very language used in this discussion is biased toward a US-centric view of the world.

In continental Europe, it is common to see sexually explicit ads on television. Topless women appear daily in British tabloid newspapers and Parisian bus shelter posters. Japanese men read graphic novels on the subway. "Ebichu", a popular TV show in Japan, would be banned in the United States. Belgian students fall over themselves laughing at "Man Bites Dog". By contrast, many Saudi women swim fully dressed at the beaches of Taba, Egypt - and you just try walking down the streets of Tunis as a woman with your long, blond hair uncovered!

The same goes for violence. Watch "Planet Earth" by David Attenborough. Who can forget the battle between two birds trying to drown each other - interrupted suddenly my a mink that kills and eats one of them on the spot. Then there is chimp gang warfare, whereby the victors tear apart and eat one of the losers. The footage of killer whales 'torturing' seals is pretty dramatic as well. Should still photos from the show be banished to the 'Xtreme' continent?

Folks, get the picture here. No one holds a wet T-shirt contest in Salt Lake City. No one wears a Hijab in the casinos of Las Vegas. I give 100 people from 100 countries 100 photographs of human beings in various poses in various stages of undress and good luck deciding what is prudish, silly, normal, acceptable or pornographic. No matter how you twist and turn, there is no way to set 'community standards' on a virtual world as complex and diverse as Second Life - at least not without alienating a significant proportion of the population.

People came to Second Life to get away from such labels and definitions. Is it not obvious that this exercise in definitions is poisonous to Second Life?

What about Homestead sims?

The best post I have ever seen.

One of the extraordinary phenomena of Second Life is that it enables people stuck at fifteen to progress to adulthood. We are all familiar with 40-year-old noobs running around naked - and we are talking professionals here, people with status and responsibility in RL - but we must remember the multitude of low-key players who came to SL to fulfill childhood dreams, ranging from 'finding' a lost love to indulging in long-standing sexual fantasies.

Linden Lab seems to have forgotten that Second Life is a VIRTUAL world. That which cannot be achieved in RL, due to physical, racial, gender, legal, professional, social, marital and financial constraints is possible in Second Life. This applies not only to Mitch Kapor's 'freaks', but to all of us.

Anyone who has been in Second Life for a year or more has witnessed the progression - within themselves and among their friends - from initial drama and/or sexual gluttony to calm maturity as RL frustration is sated by SL roleplay. It is nothing less than a social revolution with far-ranging consequences for mental health. I wonder how many RL rapes have been prevented because fantasies were unleashed in SL rather than RL. How much RL domestic violence has been reduced by membership in SL society? How many marriages have been saved by virtual rather than real mistresses?

As one of those people who was "12-going-on-40" AND "never matured past 15", I can honestly say that Second Life was a blessing. Today, at the ripe old age of 31, I will suggest that for Linden Lab to treat Second Life as a new version of RL is a failure of strategic vision so grand as to be off the scale.

Add to the "first time" dialogs:

"You are about to enter a region that is rated 'Mature'. Mature regions may contain bla bla bla... (go back) (continue) (don't ask again)"

"Your search results contain results in 'Mature' regions that have not been marked as containing 'Mature' content, bla bla bla... (show only results in PG regions) (show all results) (don't ask again)"