Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Main Forum Thread

Originally Posted by Blondin Linden

If you already have payment info on file with Linden or any of the above, you will be considered adult verified.

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Nonsense !! You have no mechanism for including alts in this, and have yet to explain how this will be achieved.

The irony is that ( like quite a few on SL ) I keep my main paid account 'respectable' and use an alt for the kinky stuff.

I suspect there are many similar users on SL who are wondering how their alts are going to be verified. Yet another issue that's been raised 15 billion times in this blog with no response.

.......wanders off and bangs head against a wall.

yes, they should include this, omg it is so perfect! Adult content is ALL over in SL, either accept it or gtfo. how they got that 2-4% I want to know.

way back when I took my gf at the time for a "walk" and people were horrified looking at me (well 90% of them were doing the WTF face) and I just smiled and waved and walked right past them. Did they say anything? No. Did they try to enforce thier opinions on me? No. and I thank them for it.

I run a strip club in sl on an island sim its a mature sim we do not alow anyone under 18 to the sim but when you lindens decide to do this i will have to move or close down i will end up quitting sl alltogether, because this will ruin my club, what piont will there be in my remaining in sl? you havent thought this out fully and im telling you all will lose money on this deal your letting politics ruin sl mark my words you will bring your company to its knees over this. but then you will do what you want anyway you dont listen to the peaple who live and run companys in your world any way so see ya when this makes you go under!

I told you all weeks ago...they probably did just that. Counted naughty prims. This method seriously undercounts the amount of adult content affected.

Of course they have. That part is simple enough. Enter the same payment info for each of the alts. If you could get payment info one one, the rest are a breeze. Though if you have a LOT of alts, you may have to use multiple credit cards to cover all of them... To bad for the Bot Farmers, isn't it?

Or maybe they will listen to the reasonable suggestion of being able to designate one main account and link all your alts to it, for identity and age validation and a single source for payment info purposes. It would not require divulging to anyone other than LL that respected content creator and land baroness "Cynthia Respectable" has an alt named "Trixie Trollop" who is a stripper and BDSM Escort... No more so than the fact that each of my alts has the same real name and address on file today would allow you, as a resident, to link any of my accounts to my real name or to each other.

Let's talk about that age verification thing a minute. Lindens, in order to implement this, you are going to have to address the following problems:

1. People don't trust Aristotle, your third party provider. They have a history of data mining. Simply saying "they told us they don't keep any personal information" is NOT good enough. How do YOU know? You have to give credible assurances.
2. It's been proven possible to age verify with false or invented credentials.
3. It's been proven that in many cases VALID credentials are not accepted.
4. In some cases, local laws prevent an applicant from providing ANY of the requested methods.
5. In many cases, a parcel with Age Verification enabled will either admit a person who is NOT verified, or exclude a person who IS verified.

That's just for Method A. Let's look at the other methods proposed.

PayPal account: Not all Europeans have access to PayPal.

Credit Card:
1. Underage users can filch a parent's credit card and falsely verify.
2. Underage users can have their OWN credit card. The credit card companies themselves do not accept having a credit card as proof of age.
3. Your payment info system is broken. It won't let you change your address if you move.
4. You need to address how alt accounts will be verified. I don't mind if each one needs CC information, it'll cut down on the bot swarms. But you have to tell us.

Payment Info On File, or Payment Info Used? Each one has advantages and drawbacks. You have to clarify how this will work.

Oh, and while we are at it, let's talk about what happens if someone ARs you for being underage, and you are NOT. Why do you demand information such as a birth certificate? Or a photo ID? Your policies on this are going to get you in BIG trouble, the first time you pull this on someone with deep pockets and an attorney on retainer.

I still say the method used by nearly every porn site on the web is good enough...a check box saying "I am over 18 and consent to seeing adult content". Please explain why this is insufficient. No more crap about a "predictable experience", please. Tell us why you need to age verify adults from a LEGAL LIABILITY or a BUSINESS CASE standpoint.

PI and age-verification are separate and unrelated.

The new as yet unimplemented Adult setting is supposed to accept *either* age-verified or PI.

Well I think I found some of the reasoning behind LL's argument. People who have kids and such, those kids could be watching the monitor.

HOWEVER it is still their parental duty to be sure that their kid is not watching their mommy or daddy getting their digital freak on inside of SL.

This guy Deion Gold(some fishy creature) pops into the Orientation island, and has his kid on the computer (we can clearly hear him in the background on voice calling people "fa**ots" and other racial slurs as well while wearing a newbie peenor bumping into everybody and I hear this kids father in the background ENCOURAGING HIM!

Unfortunately this is not a isolated incident either as another resident told me
[9:26] Name Witheld: for the record, Deions rl mother was in the background yesterday with the dad, and friends, all telling the little kid to say nasty things, and coaxing him, so shes a 10 star pedo too
[9:26] Name Witheld: this is not an isolated incident either
[9:32] Name Witheld: they was at HIP a couple of days ago doing the exact same thing, quote me it is ok
[9:33] Name Witheld: mom and dad wad friends was all involved

So basically we have someone (who barely sounds 8 years old) IN SL pulling this crap with his father beside him.

This kid is the issue that we face here. How many other people out there in the PG sims let their kids watch them play and then all of a sudden run into a mature area and freak out? (in this example though this guy was being the perfect example of what a father should NEVER do with his kid) I think that this is close to what may be our original problem, Kids shoulder-surfing...

Dear lady, I *am* a vampire, so I do get a bit... Bitey. Not so much as to make any visits to this Stepford place, however. Strictly a *liquid* diet.

-V-

Weird. When I have that "Mature" checkbox unchecked, I can't even see the clubs I work for show up in search. What's your secret?

The funny thing is, even when the "Mature" box IS checked, the most I'll see is the word "SEX". I suppose if I actually clicked on the link I'd see what was advertised. As it is, I only see the word "SEX".

Even when I'm perusing Xstreet and feeding my addiction, I still have to jump through hoops to even see the mature content. There's a tiny little box at the bottom of the page that asks if you're mature, then a pop up box gives you a warning that content beyond may offend you if you hate seeing Sex and Violence. If you continue on, it's YOUR problem, and YOUR responsibility.

If you're offended by a simple three-letter word, might I suggest you convert to Catholicism and give yourself to a life with god as a Nun?

Of course given the amount of Nuns who turn up pregnant, this might offend your sensibilities too.

Weighing in on the "blatant" roleplaying:

I work in one of the largest (and the best) BDSM clubs in Second Life as a DJ. I live in an apartment next to the club. I spend quite a lot of my time on that sim, as a matter of fact. Do you want to know something really interesting? In all the time I've spent there, I have seen very little overt sexual roleplay.

The closest I've seen, in fact, is when this club holds its Naked Tuesday event. There is rampant nudity at these dances, and yes, I do spot occasional erect penises in the crowd (including my own when I'm there). HOWEVER, apart from the usual dirty-minded banter that goes on IN ALL CLUBS, mature or otherwise, I have NEVER seen anyone bumping uglies in local chat.

The people who roleplay, even at this particular club, tend to have the mind-numbingly awesome PixelSex behind closed doors. Unless you're Perv Camming into the rooms, you aren't going to see much.

If seeing people being dragged around on leashes, and listening to them ask Mistress, Master (whatever) for permission to dance or say Hi to someone offends you, might I suggest you spend some time in the real world? Take a break from this FANTASY world.

I know I get into trouble with a lot of people when I call Second Life a FANTASY world, but that's all it is. And you, Nany, could do well to treat it as such. YOU create your own fantasy here. I create mine. If we can't agree on that fantasy, well, chances are we will never meet inworld anyway.

To Linden Lab:
A PG sim would make far more sense to me than this Adult sim. Why? For one thing, as others have pointed out, it allows the user to police him or herself. We still have the freedom to enjoy the world WE created without stepping on the toes of people who may be offended by what we do.

It would be easier for everyone involved. Have you ever moved a club, Linden? I have. It's death to a club to have to move. Let me give you a real life example:

There was this science fiction convention I loved going to every year. It was always in the same hotel. One year the convention moved. I still went, but people were unhappy with the new location and stopped coming. The convention moved again two years later, and died. That was its final year. All because of a move.

Sound extreme? It's just how human psychology works. We're creatures of habit. If change occurs, it makes us unhappy.

Don't force a move on businesses that contain adult content. Adult content is ambiguous, and we can argue about semantics and definitions for years and never agree on what IS and ISN'T.

Create a PG sim, make an announcement to the blog and inworld, and allow the residents to make their own decisions about whether or not they want to move there.

To all:
Chances are Linden Lab will completely ignore this, and carry on with their nefariously bad plan to sweep all the icky sex and violence under the rug. Won't someone pleeeeeeze think about the chilllllldruuuuun?

I can't say I won't be directly affected by this fiasco. We're all affected.

Without invoking Godwin's Law, I leave you with this:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.

I'm gonna do a text parody of the steam video.

Alright, so you found secondlife and want to get started?

Well first you have to register! Yup that's right. now, make sure you read the TOS very carefully as it has great information in it on how to not break the rules of SL.
Have you read it? Good! Now its time to enter in your information and confirm your 18 and pick a name for yourself.

Alright, now that you have a name and a login ..... whoah, slow down there billy! First we need to do some basic checks in the real world. Do you have a kid? Yes?
Well where is he then? In the same room as you? No I'm sorry billy but thats a bad idea. See second life is a mature game and kids like your own shouldn't see whats inside till they are 18. the best thing for you to do is the following.
1) make sure your in a place that can be considered private.
2) Know your alt+tab key well
3) Headphones will be very useful in some areas due to some of the "gestures" used within second life
4) can your child see what you are doing? If so try to distract them by another video game, a book or homework.
5) always be aware of your real world surroundings and make sure your kid doesn't get too close to see you doing the pixellated horizontal mambo with that cute escort you saw at the club.

This will prevent alot of accidentall exposure to your underage child before you even log in. Now once your in heres a few ground rules.

If you buy "equipment" make sure your only wearing it if you intend to use it.
if you intend to use it, that room we had you go in, I suggest you lock the door and put on those headphones mentioned eariler as some bits available within secondlife also have audio.

Never take off your clothing just to put on a new set. any new clothing you try to wear will replace your old clothes without making you nude infront of everybody that you don't want to see that.

Get a AO, even a generic one will take that stick out your butt real quick and make you walk "normal"

Take a quick glance around... is your kid in sight? if so what are they doing and how close to the monitor are they? A good safe zone is about 5-10 feet and should be maintained at all times.

Depending on where you go in SL will depend on your experience so be careful and make sure if you want to do a search and you have the "show mature content" checkbox ticked Please know what your getting into.

Theres a teleport feature in SL that allows you to go anywhere you want with the click of a mouse. Run into something you don't like? Press CTRL+SHIFT+H real quick and that will take you back to the orientation island. Now go wash out your eyes and come back here.

Because congratulations you learned how to take responsibility for your own child, learned how to search, learned how to take responsibility for your own choices and found out how to avoid being in places that you don't like.

Now go out and be useful for a change... you duche...

I think that everyone should be able to live where they like. My suggestion that LL turn Ursula into a PG continent is strictly an attempt to accomplish LL's goals with a minimum of fuss.

1. LL wants a place where they can let Corporations and reporters roam free without having to worry about the chairman of the board being pelted with 6 foot phallic imagery. Mainland is no longer a "safe" bet for corporate clients and PR write-ups.

2. There Is very real concern at LL that all the teenagers sneaking through the system might represent a fairly gaping liability hole- they want o *know* that their patrons are over 18, and assume that adult content providers want the same thing.

3. There have evidently been complaints by folks who *want* an all-PG mainland, and they must have been pretty vocal for LL to do this big an about-face.

Now, LL has determined that the way to do this is to build a bordello of blood where they will stick all the things that the "straights" and the "suits" are complaining about. At the same time, they can take the incremental step of forcing everyone to age-verify in order to visit the bordello of blood.

LL believes that this will solve all their problems. They believe this because they have vastly underestimated the number of people who will either be forced to go to the BoB, or those that will wish to join them out of sheer bloody-mindedness.
It might wind up being *half* of all PIOF/verified residents, perhaps even more.
LL has also *overestimated* the numbers of the disgruntled, who will be left behind on mainland with all the free accounts that either couldn't or didn't verify.

LL *will* go ahead with their plan- that much is certain. our only hope of averting a truly sucky situation is to try to convince them to try something that doesn't suck quite as much.

We simply are too far along the road to let the best be the enemy of the good. Perhaps there will be mass protests throughout SL, and the grid will grind to a standstill, and the LL will see the light and mend their ways.

And perhaps pigs will fly, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Convincing them to do a new *pg* continent/entry portal does a number of things for LL.

1. It allows them to control the experience for the suits, reporters, and Newbies. This is paramount to LL's needs. Simply shipping off the sex trade doesn't solve all the "inappropriateness" problems that LL has in bringing corporate clients to the mainland. Segregating New AV's on a harshly enforced PG "disneyland" until they verify, and making *that* the corporate space solves that problem much better. It gives LL more control over the presentation, and the suits the "predicability" they crave.

2. the dividing line between "PG" and "mature" is a *lot* easier to find that the line between "mature" and "adult". Infinitely so.

3. BY making the move voluntary, and by offering the sensitive an alternative to mingling with us hooligans, LL creates a *desirable* space, rather than a *mandatory* one. Also, Nautilus was All mature by design. It's the time to give the PG crowd a place to hang. Fair's fair.

4. By opening a new "pg" continent, the mainland stays *mixed use*. It doesn't change, and that makes a teen grid merger down the road tougher to do.

5. We get to keep our builds, our businesses, and our land. If we wish to move, we can always *live* in the PG world and work and play in the mature one. which is what I imagine many of the "PG" people will also elect to do.

All movement would be voluntary, the land would be an attractive "manners preserve" rather than a gulag for perverts. and LL would actually accomplish its stated goal of making some changes with as little pain and fuss as possible.


I suspect that once the final definitions come out, you will see that we are talking about a *much* bigger segment of the population than LL thinks. Mainland will look like a *deserted* disneyland by the time they are finished, and they'll knock SL back into the stone age.

Surely *someone* at LL will see that at some point in the process.

making the New continent PG is not only a simpler and more direct way to accomplish their goals and saves them untold headaches in the future, But it's the *fair* thing to do *FOR THEIR *PG* CUSTOMERS! The "mature" crowd have a whole continent or HIgh-end real estate. Where is the eqivalent for the PG folks?

You see, there are a *lot* of reasons for doing this- not the least of which is that if we don't convince them to do it *right*, then they'll do it *wrong*, and we'll suffer a *lot* more (and so will LL).

just my two cents-

-V-

A large problem with the PG continent idea is it would allow people on the current mainland to move there rather than it all being welcome areas/linden land/corp land. True, you would need that for the prudes, but how to tell them from every other PG resident? You could grandfather the current residents, but what about future ones?

Except that NOTHING, and I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that LL has proposed in all of this will have ANY effect on this behavior. NONE. NADA. ZILCH.

Thus, it CAN NOT even remotely be a tertiary motivation for LL to pull this "Adult Content" crap. If it is, then they are even more incompetent than I thought.



There's nothing wrong with kids shoulder-surfing; it is simply a matter of adult in control of the computer staying in a controlled environment while Junior is watching. However, SL's ADULT grid is just that: a grid OF Adults FOR Adults. Thus, even in the most Disney-esque plain-vanilla horror region, there is a possibility of another resident displaying Mature content (that means everything from blood/gore/sex/violence/nudity/strong language/etc). NOTHING LL can or will do will abrogate or mitigate this problem in the least.

"Online experience may change" -- no truer words have been said.

I'm not trying to scape-goat *anyone*. My unfortunate wording in calling the PG folks "tight asses" might have given you that impression, but I meant nothing of the kind.
Look, LL is *determined* to separate us, with a crowbar if necessary. I (and many others) are only trying to find a way that, when LL screws us, we won't need quite as much Lube.

Can you tell me that an announcement that LL is opening up a shiny new PG continent, pre-developed with monorails & stuff, isn't going to be met with at least a *little* enthusiasm from the die-hard PGers? I know *I* wouldn't mind a chance to trade up to some ritzy digs from a mainland plot or sim provided that it was *voluntary*. would *you*?

And if any of the kinky crowd want to move to ursula and abide by the rules there, they *can*.

LL gets most of what they want (although not quite the way they wanted it), and the folks who want to stay on mainland can stay, and the folks who want to move can move.

What's not to like?

-V-

My understanding is that PIU is simply a tag that says "they have actually used the payment info they gave us to buy something" sort of a "payment info confirmed" status. Mine switched over to that when I used my credit card to buy my premium membership.

before that it was PIOF.


-V-

There is another snippet posted in the official blog by Howard Linden regarding the upcoming 1.23 viewer:

"Coming soon (currently targeting June) will be the 1.23 Viewer release, which will implement the viewer-side of our changes for adult content. Since getting these changes out is so important, there won't be much other new functionality."

Link to the article: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/technology/blog/2009/03/28/122-viewer-stability-123-and-viewer-2009

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There is the one on the first page of search results for "furniture" with Include Mature content unchecked.

You probably don't need to ask what happens if you search for "rug" or "pose".

Well, Minx, it's not really a matter of personal chat or just being bothered. it's a very specific instance of a particular kind of Gorean (or wannabe, really) who insists on turning hostile when I politely ask him to take his little humiliation scene into IM.

I have an issue with guys like that- Sort of like Steve Martin hearing the phrase "Cleaning woman" in "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid".

It's a button with me, and i hereby solemnly swear that I would never, ever exhibit any sort of hostility or ridicule to *any* other lifestyle or arrangement.
Submissive women, and dominant men are completely fine by me, If the fellow is treating her like the treasure she is (Even if he treats her like property, he should at least treat her like *valuable* property, and not some... convenience.).

So, As adamant as I am about this particular issue, I've only had to act once or twice. fortunately that sort of "master" is a relative rarity, and I don't meet them very often.

I apologize if you find my actions objectionable, but I must remain true to myself, the same as anyone else, yes?

-V-

Unfortunately, according to their timeline, they won't even have a definition ready for another week or so.

-V-

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These people have the keyworld "room" pinned down, too. Several entries for them come up.

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My advice is not to buy those things if you aren't interested in them *shrug*.

I tend to tune out most of the freebie orgy sex adverts anyway. It's an inate talent, but easily learned. It's called "scanning". Just like I "scanned" most of this thread. No way would I read through almost 4000 messages of BS (a lot of it posted by *ahem* someone and their alts and shared accounts (which violates ToS).

Okay, I'm safely over the bridge, Mrs. Troll. Do I get my cookie now?

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wonder what would happen if I searched for "woman" or "women" LOL

The problem is, they make SL look like a brothel. That makes it harder for people to get jobs here.