Feedback on Ad Farm post

I've been reading these posts since the beginning and already offered my suggestions. If I dip into this again, it'll be purely for entertainment purposes! Some of these posts are pretty amusing... All Jack L. asked for were suggestions on the provisions of the limited # of network advertising licenses that LL might issue to legitimate advertisers. Oh, well. I'm sure Jack is capable of sifting through this and finding the actual suggestions and making a sound decision from there.

Looking forward to seeing how this works out after Oct. 1.

Lets convert some private Puppets land into the public rezzing stations!

People are obsessed by dividing. Another Berlin wall? Lets enjoy diversity and respect other views. It is not difficult.

Got it in one Luke, got it in one! I prefer a blank slate that we are free to draw on without intentionally causing problems for the next person. Ad farmers are exercising the right to draw whatever .... but they cross the line when it interferes with what someone else draws.

In a utopia we would govern by karma or it's equivalent .... nearly everyone knows when something that disturbs someone else is accidental (typically the offender rectifies the problem as soon as they know it) and when it is designed to cause deliberate grief. Because some people choose to not "play nice" we need regulations though.

To be cliche about it: you brought this on yourselves. The system was designed to allow the freedoms and you took them without the responsibilities. No better than any other griefer if you ask me.

Exactly LL are not doing this because I or anyone else asked them to, although many have.

They are doing it because you pillars of society, striving for a free market and the right to blackmail neighbors and extort a peice of land you cut, have forced them to.
No customers means no commerce, you destroyed your own extortion rackets with your own greed not anyone else.
LL will regulate because some people are unable to regulate themselves, I bet they would rather not, as it it is an extra cost implication for them, but nothing compared to the costs created by the loss of users being driven out, by a few bad apples.

Regarding religion a fair point also, I have seen one of Mark Edwards adverts, his Light House plots seem to be road side parcels, with reasonable bill board design not giant cubes, with lights.

A great step towards virtual communism. Unclear and vague. As usual.

You do not have to apologize, Tyrian. Linden Lab destroyed your succesfull banking business months ago and now they are going after your advertisement activities. You paid for your land, be proud and fight for your right to use it for what YOU consider is right! Liberty first!

It is very logical, believe me. And i already have legitimate business. As I say - you better mind your own business, do not care too much about my pricing. I do not care about pricing of your whateveryousell either.

What is the difference between pockets of Lindens and pockets of Robo Marx? And your pocket? Why you do not call Lindens a grubby types? More consistency. Robo is an individual who has full right to do with his land what he thinks is right. Leave him alone, mind your own business and try to respect private ownership.

It is probably because I am not a native speaker. But I reckon this is really not a topic of the day.

Now we see ones that wish to tell me I cannot protest in my own peaceful way.

As a side note, when you click that sign, this it what you learn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_freak

Post the whole story there okay. Taking bits and pieces of something to make it what you want is bending the truth and in my culture a bent truth is a whole lie.

Peace and love my fellow SLers. Time to turn off the lights.

A few of the posters here have self-identified as responsible network advertisers, and in my interactions with a couple of them, I believe that they in fact would try to work productively within the licensing system that LL lays out.

I cannot say that it would be wise of LL to grant them a license, however; as I said in an earlier post, the policy and policymakers will have serious credibility problems if the same folks end up with licenses who've been so visible for so long blighting the landscape with spam. (The only way I can see that working is if the licensing process is absolutely transparent; a per-sim per-annum auction is one measure that I'd suggest toward transparency... perhaps with the proceeds divided among existing landowners in the sim, or contributed to LDPW "mole awards," or something.)

Why good people did bad things.

It's instructive to consider why responsible people might have found themselves contributing to the ravaging and spamming of the Mainland. And it's why this licensing policy is at least as important for advertisers, both the licensees and their ad content clients, as it is to other users of the Mainland:

To be visible in a forest of unregulated ad towers, what choice did they really have but to build a garish ad tower themselves? Yes, there were a few, usually non-network exceptions--and I suspect some of those exceptions were more effective, just by standing out against the background of DayGlo clutter--but it was a competition for attention and biggest, brightest, and boldest was the obvious choice.

It was the Tragedy of the Commons: competing for the shared resource of attention until there was no attention at all--almost nobody looked at any of them. The town commons was overgrazed and ruined for everyone.

This all changes with licensing. Now, the competition is really to fit in with the natural and built environment of the ad site. And (one hopes) there will be few enough sites that the forests of clutter won't compete for viewers' attention anymore. And--more significant--there will be more total viewer attention: people won't be compelled to immediately avert their cams from huge wastelands of towering spam anymore. The commons will be restored.

Lessons from pre-licensing attempts.

It's also instructive to see how networked advertisers tried in the past to act responsibly (or, at least, to appear to do so), and why these attempts weren't very successful.

The very simplest step was to combat the above-described "overgrazing" by constraining ad sites to one per sim per advertiser. This failed because there were just too many advertisers, so it didn't much benefit the regions--and it didn't restore visual attention and didn't help the advertisers.

Lesson: Strictly limit the number of sites available for use in a sim, not just limit the number of total licenses available for use anywhere.

Note: This is not to say that each ad should always be maximally distant from every other ad in a region. A small cluster will often be better both for effectiveness and aesthetics.

One of the network advertisers (GnuSense) tried to build his adtowers with plausible materials and design. They had a little pyramid atop the obelisk, a library rock texture, simple easy-to-load geometry, etc; other than being vastly out of scale, full-bright, and ad textured on all sides (to compete with the spam forest), they seem a reasonable attempt. In one sim where I have holdings, I even imitated the shape and materials of the tower base in a low wall to screen out some of the neighboring adfarm and to try to relate the tower to its surroundings; it helped, maybe, but ultimately wasn't all that successful. The same design is used everywhere by that network, which makes it distinctive, but prevents really fitting in with any of the locations as effectively as it could, had it been built for that location.

And the location itself just wasn't the best place to put an ad tower. But I've seen worse. And really, to be fair, unregulated network advertisers (like everybody else) could only choose sites they could buy, which often lead to really absurd locations.

Lesson: Design should be per-site (i.e., per sim), not universal.

Lesson: Location should be designed (as by LDPW), not accidental.

Lesson: Using publicly available textures (library, Bay City, etc.) makes it possible for neighbors to help relate the ads to the surroundings.*

Lesson: When attempting to fit the environment, don't let the design get so ornate that it creates download or rendering lag.

I'm hoping this is constructive, and that other suggestions might result in better leveraging this opportunity.

__________
* Totally off-topic: It could be a win if builders in a sim made publicly available--within licensing constraints--the textures they use in their builds, so others can choose to paint from the same palette. This was the idea in Bay City, and if followed by builders, can dramatically improve texture load and rendering speeds, as well as improve aesthetics.

What is the whole story? Blocking other peoples ads when you want to sell land? Using temp rezzers to have 30 out of 7 simulator primitive usage? Extorting land? Repetitive transmissions of undesirable material?

What is the real story? Sorry if we are victimising you for pointing out facts.

I am playing Spore, I was one of the first to download it. You cannot compare it to SL. It is a game and allows no interaction with other online users.

Your "creations" are based on pre-fab pieces strictly and, I must say, beautifully devised by EA. No great space for personal imagination, but you can always stretch and rotate the pieces, an idea which is copied from SL's edit model. But you cannot create anything from scratch, for the very simple reason the game, which is based on predictable actions, would not be possible if you could be free to create what you want.

There is no advertising but, hear this, PROPAGANDA is allowed while you destroy neighbors you do not like with air raids. You can always move your camera up if you are too delicate to hear the screams and see people die.

Perhaps you might try to go there and vent your anger. Because as I see it, ad farms, and the messages I saw from ad farmers, are nothing but bad propaganda, they are not advertising.

As for other virtual worlds, at best none of them is made for three different OSes like SL. With all its faults, SL has the great merit of being democratic in terms of the platforms it can work on.

Ah, did I mention that age verification should be implemented in the future? Some of the self-proclaiming business people blabbering about their business models use the grammar and the spelling of a sixth-grader.

LL, PLEASE BAN IN-WORLD ADVERTISING NOW!

Sandor

The Lindens created SL and run it in the way they seem fit sometimes their decisions have hurt people, but that was not their intention, they do what they must for the good of their platform in their view.

Mr Marx and all small parcel extortionists made decisions long ago to create a business thats only form of profit comes from being deliberately antisocial and effectively blackmailing them to pay for peace.

That is why I would rather put my money into the Lindens pockets.

Great idea, but I already thought of that. We have a public boat rezzing area at our store in Lilypad - anyone who wants to come by and rez a boat on the Linden waterways, look up my store in Lilypad - Puppet Art - and give it a go. We even have a box of free boats to give you out on Xi's fishing dock.

I'd do the same for my roadside land in Disl, but I never see anyone on the roads there - who would want to drive through there with the wrecked adfarm view? I look forward to doing some cleaning up when the adfarms are gone, and I plan to implement my own public rezzing station if the Lindens don't create one first. It would be so much more effective for the Lindens to do it, though, because my prim counts are limited, since I don't own the road and the prims that go with them.

Also, Luke, if you insist on calling all anti-adfarmers communists, shouldn't you be calling us comrades, instead of friends?

The things people are saying in this thread now - I almost feel sorry for the Lindens having to wade through it.

As a followup to my earlier comment, I did have a discussion with him this morning and he was completely civilized about it. Even took down his tower (since he had another one on elsewhere in the sim) when I offered to trade him another 16 for it.

True, I have had problems with that tower in the past, particularly when it was on an overpriced plot. It is refreshing to see someone improve though.

Quite a difference from some of the other "businessmen" in that area!

Ah, so do I have to assume you are one of the few East Europeans who equate freedom with anarchy and lack of respect for others?

A few of those East Europeans left their countries and emigrated to Italy, too, and the police are doing our best to jail them and deport them because, guess what, their mistaken sense of "freedom" led them to commit crimes, and I am not even listing the kind of crimes here because I don't want to bore anyone. Of course, there are some excellent East European immigrants too, but like good Italian citizens, they are quite discreet and less visible than criminals, alas.

Unfortunately, having been a communist in a capitalist country and having witnessed the cold war, the end of it and the ensuing world instability in almost half a century of personal real life, I am aware that capitalist countries have to take a lot of blame for causing a shift from one extreme to the other in former Soviet allied countries and the subsequent nostalgia effect.

So, to some extent, I understand why you are acting the way you do in SL. But in RL, if you committed a severe crime, having had a dysfunctional childhood or a dysfunctional adolescence because of communism would not make the punishment less severe in a court of law.

I am also afraid you do not live in the US, the generally acknowledged cradle of pure capitalism. I lived there for five years on and off and believe me, YOU CANNOT DO WHATEVER YOU WANT THERE, whether you are an alien resident or a citizen! And I can also tell you that even in RL US, if the lack of a rule causes problems, a new rule is found. Plain and simple. And most of all, it is discussed in Congress, so every single citizen may have their say through Representatives and Senators. I am sure American contributors to this thread agree with what I am saying.

LL, PLEASE BAN INWORLD ADVERTISING NOW!

Sandor

Ya gotta watch that whole "speaking for others" thing. It seems clear to me that you may have no idea what I prefer or expect.

As for communists: what you are talking about is more in line to totalitarianism, specifically that versus anarchy. You are not talking about communism, which is (to get all dictionary on you) "A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members."

Last I checked, we all do our own work here, and we all own our own plots. When you talk about communism, you seem to only talk about sterile environments and over-regulation. That's a whole 'nuther animal.

Anyway...

This thread (including my own post) isn't really moving things forward. I'm not sure we can really add more without more knowledge of where we're going with this policy. Jack, are you out there and want to get us back on topic, or have you gotten all the feedback you can stomach?

According to this thought, then non encroaching, phantom panels that are transparent on one side are also nobody's business except mine. Consistency

With as many advertising companies I see out there in the grid and all the land they pay/ paid for (including tier invested over time), I wouldn't be surprised if there were some legal action taken if thier companys are squashed without some compensation. Even if a business is not popular with the masses but conforms to TOS/ TOC, they deserve equal treatment, protection and compensation. If LL intends to reclaim all ad parcels by force, I sure hope they have well thought out any legal ramifications. Some of these companies are pretty big and seem to have invested a lot of time, effort and exspense. Not that I support either or but Gnu is a good example.

People report to me griefing and abuse that LL has ignored or missed and I do my own investigations. If I find the issue to be in need of attention it is handle with a simple device I supply.

Through my investigations and the reports I have recieved since my SL birth, I see a ton of TOS/TOC violations coming from these "virtual tree huggers" and thier supporters. A lot of out right abuse. I am all for your right to protest within the confines of the rules but when you step outside the rules you then become that which you protest against.

If we are to make some rules governing ban lines to extort, lets talk about Arbor Ban Ball device. This is an attempt to extort these people who choose to cut land to stop. The pay off if they comply, appologise and make ammends is to be removed from the "black list". This in itself is a form of extortion. If you take the TOS/TOC word for word, that device and these actions are griefing.

Lets move on to the Ad Zoo. Although cute, it is only a way for Timo to pump up his realty business and get some PR for others. Yea, it sounds nice and may be cute to some but I have proof and reports of the TOS/TOC violations used in its earlier developement. 17 violations to be exact, which LL did take care of. So support the Ad Zoo while him and his partners walk away with your Ls and enjoy success from the ignorance of new comers.

Now I am sure I will get some hate IMs and replies in this thread after this post. Thats okay, I stand firm as a neutral party, always keeping an eye on dirty big business in SL. Don't worry, I will have something to say about some of the advertisers who are really in it to make a fast buck from you all but not all of them started and maintain thier business to extort etc.

You all need to open your eyes and see that big business is going to tell you what you want to hear, kiss your butt and do whatever is popular to get your approval. Which is also good business. It is good business until they use griefing tactics and abuse to win your favor. We see it all the time in RL and of course when you can hide behind a screen and fling some dirt, it is going to happen more often and easier. Politicians do it all the time to get ellected. Pat your back with one hand while they steal your wallet with the other.

You are all mirrors of each other. Cheap carbon copies are always worth less than an original. So keep the dissension among the masses so they can run to the bank and cash those checks.

Bad leaders are replaced by good leaders that turn bad. ~Che


My input for LL, think about the legal actions before you make a move.

People that threaten with lawsuits should be deleted anyway for being retarded. LL does not have to have a reason to delete any account they choose. it is in the TOS you speak of.

Seems to me this group of ad farmers is threatening Linden Lab in an attempt to extort now and need to be removed even faster. Last person I know to have threatened legal action in connection with Secondlife turned and ran with tail between legs when it came down to the actual time to head to court. These people that threaten lawsuits are immature and have no experience with legal matters or they would not even be discussing it openly since nothing has happened. But since they are attempting to extort Linden Lab by threatening lawsuits then Linden Lab needs to delete them as an example of who is in control and who wrote the TOS.

That's between them and the adfarmers. I'm sure our illustrious schemers have something in their agreements with them about not guaranteeing yadda yadda etc etc which protects them. They seem to think of everything else.

You read much into things that are not there. If I want to threaten, I will do so bluntly and out right as this is my way. If you reread it you will see it is a suggestion and not a threat. It is my opinion and I am intitled to it just like you.

Calling someone a retard is a TOS/TOC violation grasshopper and is very childish.
Remember, there is a teen grid for persons of your level.

Raad it clearly or take some english lessons. No threat was made. If LL chooses to remove my comments or account for expressing my opinions and giving my input, it just proves my point.

Can't we just all get along.... LOL you people are killng me.

Hope Mom n Dad know you are using thier credit card to troll around SL.

How about virtual capitalists who want visitors to their store to have an enjoyable time, so they buy stuff instead of immediately going "ewww" and teleporting out because of the adfarm just across the sim border?

Because, you know, your "virtual communists" line is just so much horse exhaust. You want to pretend you're on the side of business, then start by taking down the adfarms you've set up next to other people's businesses.