Are some people really so stupid as to expect privacy in SL?

Didn't it go more like ...

Dinner, dinner, dinner, dinner,
Dinner, dinner, dinner, dinner ...

Hm, not when we sang it.

Who remembers this one:

Jingle Bells, Batman Smells
Robin Laid An Egg
The Batmobile Lost A Wheel
And the Joker Got Away...
Hey!

I think that's where the problem starts because people will not treat homes in SL as if they were homes. The often thoughtless and inconsiderate behaviour of newbies demonstrates this and it isn't a particular phenomenon of SL but more or less typical of virtual worlds and online gaming in general.

As for Argent's suggestion about privacy options, while we would still get some degree of discontent along the lines of the OP, at least one party would be satisfied: the parcel owner.

Certainly there might be dire consequences when some clueless residents get their hands on the options but I could make the same argument for the 'Appearance' dialog: there are more than a few I wish I could drag into a dark corner and do something reasonable with their sliders.

And thus we get to the heart of the problem. The concept of expecting "privacy" in SL being called stupid, apart from being a rather deliberate insult in and of itself, is also putting the "stupid" label on the wrong people. Those people who insist that a home in SL is not under any circumstances to be treated as a home, are the stupid ones. Not the people who pay good money for the land, plus monthly rent (either in the form of tier or a payment directly to another avatar) to keep that land, and also put in the effort (and expense) to pick out the right house and furnish it to their liking.

The pre-emptive use of security orbs or ban lines is simply to ensure that the stupid people who demand access to a private home where they have no business being will be put in their proper place. Outside of that home. Those who insist that such tools must be removed from the grid are trying to control what people are allowed to do with their own property, and that is never good in any life.

If I put up ban lines on my property, I'm not telling somebody that they can't ride a horse, take a walk, drive a car, fly a plane, whatever. I'm telling them that they cannot perform these activities on that specific property which I own.

Those people who do wish to enter my home may ask for an invitation. Think of that as ringing the doorbell on a RL home. If I refuse to let them in, oh well, they don't have the right to come in anyway, that's a privilege granted by the homeowner.

lol and agrees with the appearance comment. and that Ephraim has brought us full circle.
how do you get the point across to those who feel that propriety stops at the log in screen? how do we as residents settle this so that a thread like this is not resurrected in about two months?

ETA: i saw RocknRolls post, and have to add. i do honestly believe that new residents are just following the green dots, and fly down to be friendly, and are genuinely curious about SL. my post mainly addresses those who feel that they have the online right to impose themselves upon you.

You don't think it might be better all round if things were either just not there for those who shouldn't see them or at least somewhat less obtrusively inaccessible for those who shouldn't be there?

I don't have a particular problem with anything anyone wants to do with their property but in my opinion it would be good if the issue were dealt with in a less awkward manner. For two years I've lived on an island where banlines are forbidden by the rules of the covenant and I haven't had more than a handful of incidents, which were dealt with easily enough.

I'd still like a measure of privacy as close to the 100% mark as I could possibly get but I certainly won't get that from banlines.

I've had some people use my home while I was offline in the past, which I didn't mind. Good use for all the expensive furniture I'd say.

However, one time I was merrily playing with a friend, and some couple ran into the front door of the mansion I had at the time.
I VERY politely asked them to leave, which they did. But not without yelling some explicite language at me first. They did it in French, so they assumed I'd be too stupid to know what they were say. Well, too bad for them, I had quite some lessons in French when I was younger, and had a very good idea what they said. I did look it up in a dictionary to verify, which showed me I was right.
5 minutes later, they got banned on all the estates of my landlord (which was CF estates, so they got banned in quite a lot of places).

It's quite simple: if someone does not respect MY privacy nor acknowledge my right for it, no matter how feeble she believes it is, she gets banned.

And I might add that I find this threat very useful to preemptively add some bans to my list. OP as well as some other persons are simply not welcome on my land, and I will laugh out in their face if I see one of their vehicles crash into my banlines, no matter how small the chance for that actually may be, given that there is PLENTY of room on the grid to fly or ride horsie or boat or whatever kinks they may have.

well you just got added to my ban list 'preemptively' - I may not operate ban lines but I certainly use bans against people who insult me on this forum no matter how feebly cloaked the insult maybe....

Oh baby, if you thought I was insulting there, you ain't seen nothing yet.

oh well in that case you just got yourself ignored on the forum too...


have a nice day

The same thing is true of, oh, a giant poster of roadkilled raccoons facing a parcel owned by a group of people using raccoon avatars. You're allowed to do that, for sure, but if people all over the grid started setting up posters... not even gross ones... ones with an innocuous message like "IMPEACH BUSH"... there would be backlash.

For the record, again, I don't invade people's homes, and I don't use banlines either. Both are rude, neither justifies the other.

YAY! My first ignore! -ish very proud with herself-
Thank you!

Oh wait, now you're missing out on me thanking you, and I even brought cake

This thread has become silly (as well as being unnecessarily verbose).

Bottom line; people can have privacy in SL thanks to things like security orbs, but it's their job to protect it themselves.

Putting someone on ignore is the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "La la la la I can't hear you!". It's a tacit admission that they have lost the argument.

I'm certainly not going to bandy words with mustelid.

Yelling "la la la la I can't hear you!" isn't a tacit anything but I guess it might be inferred the shouter has lost the argument or whatever.

Tricky things words. I can see how you might mistrust verbosity. Nevertheless, even the most economic comments require some attention to meaning.

I think it is a great idea and I voted.

That should appease everyone, except folks that makes security orbs.

Nice one. I'll see if I can drum up a few votes for it in-world.

Yea - that'll do it . . .

Pep ( . . . *NOT*!)

Another content free post. Why do you bother?

Pep (Or perhaps it lost something in translation? )

Agreed, to a point...

Firstly, posters of roadkilled racoons, or "impeach Bush" posters, carry a message that is separate from the issue of banlines. The backlash would be against the message, rather than the giant poster itself. Let's make it really innocuous and say the poster was just a graphic, maybe an ad or just a nice pic the person liked. No message that might be inflammatory.
Do you think there'd be a backlash then?

Secondly, I don't do those things either. However, invading people's homes against their wishes is against the rules (the rules the owner set up). Banlines aren't.

And it's not our place to demand justification from people for stuff they do on their own property.


(Next bit not directed at you, Argent, mon ami)

And that's the correct word for it, I think. "Property". Something someone owns.
From Wiki (not the definitive source of info, but it's not bad for the purposes of this discussion)

"Property is any physical or intangible entity that is owned by a person or jointly by a group of persons."

So, can we stop with the "YOU CAN'T OWN ANYTHING IN SL, SO I SHOULD BE ABLE TO COME ONTO YOUR LAND 'CUZ I LIKE TO EXPLORE AND YOU'RE DUMB IF YOU THINK YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO WHAT YOU LIKE ON YOUR OWN LAND!" arguments? They're ridiculous.

And until we get something that is better and more fine tuned than ban lines, then we're not going to be getting rid of them any time soon.

Closest we have right now is the security orb and honestly, I feel it's more rude than ban lines. They can't be seen at a far enough distance, so you can't find a way around them. They can be placed at and works at any height, so you can't just simply find the right height and go over them. Ban lines are at least limited to a certain height from the ground.

Um, yes, because there was such a backlash. And it went way too far, to the point where you can't even put a "for sale" sign on a parcel you have for sale if you've got more than one such parcel for sale in the same sim.

Well on mine and Will's sim, we have a security orb on the section where our house sits. When we got home, we were about to go to bed and log off for the night. The orb was giving someone a warning message. I im'ed her and asked did she need anything or have any questions. Her reply I was exploring and your home is fantastic. I asked her would she like a tour and she agreed. Turned orb off, gave her a tour and she thanked us for our hospitality.

I don't have a problem with anyone exploring, my problem lies with people just entering my home when uninvited. For Will and I, it would've been embarrassing for us to be standing there naked about to climb in the bed and this young lady walks in. She is not a newbie, she's been around since 07.

I respect there are some that don't mind this, but for us it is in intrusion on our privacy. When we are in our home we speak in open chat about what is going on in rl. I would not appreciate her or anyone else listening to our very personal conversation. Because it is private.

Again, to a certain degree I do expect privacy in my own home. I know its just pixels and there is no "real" privacy in sl. But to me there is an expectation when I am in my home and I am speaking in open chat.