Are some people really so stupid as to expect privacy in SL?

You should have added a 'ner ner ner ner ner' to this post.....

That's what you can do AFTER someone enters your land. Some people do not want unknown persons to enter their lands AT ALL. That's THEIR choice, and for lack of a better system to accomplish this conveniently, they are forced to use banlines. If better options were available, they would take them. There are and have been PLENTY of JIRA's for better land-permission and land-privacy models. Argent linked to a set a few pages back in this thread. The people most interrested in better systems, which would be more convenient to all partis involved, are those who WANT this privacy themselves.

They do NOT want dozens of complaints all the time from people who think they are entitled to walk in on someone elses land. They just want PRIVACY. For lack of PRIVACY, they do as much as they can to get it: simply block other people from entering their parcel alltogether.
If you don't like it: help them get a better way of privacy within SL, instead of behaving like a child by insulting them and crying how unfair it is that you can't get on their land. Help them pursuade LL to improve the land permissions settings. Or just buy a private estate for these people, lol. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

First of all get it through your head - BAN LINES DO NOT GIVE PRIVACY ...

Second look to the ban line users for insults..... Theyre the ones doing what griefers are ar'd for.

And Id counter your suggestion of an estate for people who don't want ban lines with a region for those who do - now just imagine a region where everyone is using banlines. You tell me how far YOU are going to get. Now to me if you like ban lines it suggests you mustn't want to travel very far in sl because if everyone used em... well try and conjure up that picture for yourself.

Segregation isn't the answer - look at the uproar Zindra caused. Imagine moving people just so they can continue to use what they are already permitted to use. In this case, disallowing public access, i.e. ban lines. (It also would not change anything - people could still go there and so forth.)

Why focus on the word 'privacy.' How about lack of intruders. If someone is changing at home, they don't want to have to entertain an uninvited guest. It shouldn't, imo, warrant segregation or stigma.

What do you feel ban line users are doing that constitutes griefing, Maelstrom?

That's why people use banlines, they decide they don't want others roaming on the ground on their plot and automate it by using banlines. Others choose the security orb option.

I feel the users of other security devices are the griefers Clarissa especially when thrown across sl by some stupid security device I stray into quiet unwarily while out exploring sl - and I believe exploration in all its forms is one of the main wonders of sl.

Banlines are as effective as any other griefer's toy at causing me to crash, imobilise me, or make me fall from a vehicle.

I see exploration as one of the main wonders of sl I own land and enjoy people mooching around and investigating providing they dont intentionally leave prims about and move on if I ask them too. Any problems and I ban them...much fairer than causing those who want to enjoy SL to crash.

Are the advocates of ban lines telling me theyd welcome a world where everyone employed their right to use these things ?

Imagine an sl latticed with banlines and for what - some false notion they offer privacy ?

Id like to know where in sl these vast rampaging hordes are. Ive been out xploring today and if myself and my partner saw five other people it was stretching it.

Thinks - maybe theyre all at home sitting knitting - safe behind their ban lines

Thanks for explaining what you meant by it, Maelstrom. I appreciate it.

Sounds like better means are needed, then.

There will always be people who see 'home' as their private retreat, and/or are made tense by people walking in uninvited. Women who are making clothing or changing and are therefore naked, for one instance. Or people who are doing other private things.

It's only pixels but - the mind somehow reads it subconsciously as 'real' at some level. Not to be confused with 'the person cannot tell RL from SL' but in the same way as Kokoro gave an example to, like watching a film and being impacted even a bit by that. Or perhaps if someone walked in and then said disgusting things, to getting an unpleasant phone call.

Some see this as a hobby that is only worthwhile if they can relax or find retreat there, and go and mingle only when they want to.

But I don't think you would have to worry about the entire grid being full of ban lines, because people vary so widely and there will always be people who either are not online that often or love to entertain drop in visitors or for other reasons would never use security devices. So I think that won't ever happen (a grid lit entirely by red lines.)

I do think orbs should try and be used properly so that they don't overreach the parcel boundary and so they give avatars enough time to realise and to change direction. We've all lagged into an orb before and been sent home.

But the owners of those orbs would probably call that (being sent home) a small inconvenience in a similar way to your outlook upon unplanned visitors being a small inconvenience. It's all perspective really.

What I like about this and the other thread is that we all care enough about Second Life to *have* a somewhat strong opinion on matters that impact our time there, no matter what that position might actually be.

Clarissa believe me it's no fun when you plan a trip between two points for no purpose other than the enjoyment of exploration using the new hoverbike, space craft, hot air balloon, boat, hovercraft or whatever other sort of vehicle youve bought only to have your enjoyment ruined by some stupid bug when you hit a region boundary or because you enter a full parcel... to have on top of these hinderances the indiscriminate use of these 'security' devices or ban lines which don't appear until youre on top of them...

And its an annoyance because perfectly feasible other methods are in place to keep genuine trouble makers away which dont inconvenience genuine sl users.

Yes I have been forced to relog before because a craft got away from me and I spun in blue space (it happened in Zindra too, before anything was built except by Moles and there were definitely no orbs or ban lines up, then. The Zindra hoverboard is excellent btw. *g*) Or because I was boating and hit a ban line I never saw.

Not saying it's fun or never a drag, but maybe there are two other things going on, one is that it might be nice if LL had open boating/flying (craft flying, not av flying) sims only for that, and two, that some technical tweaking seems in order.

Must be a way to make everyone happy or at least content...one hopes anyway.

What better methods would you suggest? Other than banning after the fact - it does not address the problem of the intrusion having already happened.

How about banlines that only show up when you're at home? Would that provide your illusion of privacy?

Mind you, I don't go poking around in my neighbors house whether they're home or not.

I think that is a good idea Argent - would be better than leaving them up always.

Only two small things it wouldn't address, I guess.

1. Homeowner rezzing the next day, in the altogether, in their BR only to find people there. Lol

2. Homeowners who just do not want anyone there, ever. For various reasons.

Of course there's also parcels that have to restrict because of adult content. In that case it would be a restricted parcel, all the time.

But I think that is an option that could work in a lot of instances.

because after a while, even banning doesn't work(alts). we only used the banlines until we got the orb, which was set to the maximum time at the time(30-45 seconds i believe), plenty of time to let that person know they were trespassing w/o permission. and sometimes asking politely just does not work with some people. while i do support your right to explore, there is this thing called manners. it seems that most think they do not apply once you log in. i would never just walk into someone's homestead uninvited, nor would i feel entitled to do so.
if i want to ride my horse, there are plenty of places that are designed for me to do so. race my car or motorcycle? same thing. while many here feel it's a restriction of their SL to run into those things, you must keep in mind that there are others here whose are living theirs.

ETA: can you explain your use of the phrase "genuine SL users"?

i consider myself an SLer, even though i do not log in as much as i use to.

By the time the homeowner rezzed, they'd have been ejected for being in a parcel they're not allowed in. It would add a new risk to squatting.

If they can't ever see anyone in their home, don't they have the same illusion of privacy they have now?

Any parcel that has to restrict because of adult content needs to be in an adult region.

OK, so maybe it's rude to set up ban lines for properties along a Linden Road, protected waterway, etc...? Those are the ones that usually screw me over, when I'm IN a place designed for me to drive my car or boat.

yes it is. and just to make this clear, i do not like banlines. they are horrid looking, however, until something better comes along, we are stuck with it.

And as I have before....

We paid for our property. We have had rude people, granted we have had nice people. We made a choice ban lines or security orb. We found the security orb. No I do not like the ban lines, but in the interim that is what was used.

Yes you are able to go to the park area of our place. But our house is where I draw the line! As I have said tried signs tried being nice but when you have rude people come in no! And as I have said they were not new ones either. And just for you all out there thinking it, no we have nothing to hide! Well a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

I enjoy SL I am not a hermit and I have fun. So does my SL partner. But till others learn respect (yah that word again) around our house the security orb is up! I also know that there is no real privacy here but you know what? Till people learn a house is a persons place and not enter with out an invite guess what you get booted. Would you do that in RL? Just walk in make yourself at home? No I hope you would not. yes we are pixels that should not matter. Again the respect word.

I do understand the ones that dont like orbs or ban lines... they are not good for exploring true but again unless others start to respect others places, well what is a person to do?

No we wont move to another "secure" place we have been here for a long time and have no plans on moving. No we will not move up to the sky we like our property the way it is.

Take that as you will. I expect a few will not like it.

But then this is my take!

I was personally hoping to see more attention paid to the potential of this as an alternative to banlines: .

Just a note...

you don't have to justify your choices when it comes to your property to anyone.

"Why do you have banlines?" Because I choose to have them.
"But they suck" Yep
"Why have them?" Because I choose to have them.

I can't believe this same argument is coming up AGAIN.

Maelstrom, how can someone be a griefer for using something they're allowed to use in the tabs for their own land?
Because it messes you up when you want to go onto THEIR land?

That's ridiculous.

You don't get to ask "Why can't you just..." to people. It's not your place. Well.. you can ask, but you can't expect an answer. I'm still amazed that people answer these folks who are basically demanding free access to someone else's property. It's bizarre to me.

I should be allowed to ride my bike over your land because I like exploring and all this land owned by other people is getting in my way? What the hell? How does that make sense?


ETA:

And, for the record, I don't use banlines, never have, even when I was on the mainland.
I've now got about a dozen islands and I'm in awe at the audacity of these people that tell me what I can and can't do on my own land...

could work, but as one poster said that would be just as bad, especially of the owner of said parcel has no clue how to work it.

how about this: we treat the homes in SL as if they were homes. treat people they way YOU want to be treated and give them the courtesy of being left alone if they chose to be left alone. as Mickey said, You have no more right to tell one how to work their SL than they have to tell you how to work yours. life is way to short for this.

Del....let's not use the word stupid.....let's try this....

Some people will bring all their RL "concerns" packed tidily into suitcases into SL with them....and they expect to escape those, when in fact they are just unloading them into an imaginary world....to further compound the "concerns." Let's call them Group A.

Now some people (let's call them Group B), use this virtual world to their full potential to grow and enhance their RL in a healthy fashion, by exploring and meeting people from all over the world, and learning to full capacity, with very little restrictions and constraints, and some even use it for FUN! (except when someone from Group A interrupts).

Now Group B will remember that yes, there is RL...and then there is the virtual world, and those people understand that it is quite futile to spend hours of their virtual world life accommodating the needs of the those who can't seem to make a distinction between reality and pixels....(some times they forget, and are enlightened with a few reminders). Group A will misinterpret this as a total disregard, when in fact Group B is just going about both lives in a healthy fashion.

Now Group A, who would benefit from the wisdom and common sense of Group B, can't seem to spot that to save their virtual lives....so they will rant and rave on, in an effort to somehow prove a point that is laughable (as you suggested, Del)....and they will probably spend another dozen or so pages here suggesting that they have ownership and rights to something that does not even "really" exist.....Privacy. And on the Internet, no less! Privacy on the Internet! In a world run by a Lab...run by People!

And in the process, Group A will project their "concerns" onto Group B, suggesting that Group B might have "issues"....yes, they will use the word Issue! Even though Group B members would prefer not to. Group A will toss out words like "respect" and "courtesy" when in fact, Group B possesses these qualities all along, but Group A is so wrapped up in their "concerns" that they wouldn't know it if it bit them in the face.

Now, some technological advances will be suggested during the futile discussion between Group A and Group B.....which the folks at this Lab, in charge of "privacy" will pull out of their pocket at the next Wednesday Afternoon Thank God it's Hump Day Splash.....and they will sit around and laugh their asses off between Appletinis.

And there you have it, Del! In a Nutshell.

note: A Thesaurus was used to avoid using rather blatant buzz words that might trigger further "concerns."

ok MickeyV? i have read all your posts. and i'm going to try to make you understand something you seem to either not understand or refuse to accept:

there are times when some people, especially those who have a business to run have no time to deal with a wanderer, even though it may cost them a future BFFiSL(best friend forever in SL),even more so if the wanderer in question turns out to be rude. it is hard to entertain someone when you are trying to sort thru 50k plus of inventory, or answering questions and or filling orders from customers. then there are those who wish alone time with their significant other. i am sorry you seem to confuse this with having baggage, and or "concerns". it is not. it just is. and keep in mind that just because there is a security measure on someone else's property, it is not a slight to you. it is their property. end of story. no baggage to be had. no "concerns" to be carried in.

as for your group A/B analogy, aren't you doing the exact same thing? you are judging those who would like to have their downtime in peace as somehow interfering in your SL.
as big as the grid is, i am sure you can find other places to ride your horse. may i suggest you "concern" yourself with living your SL while showing "courtesy" to others who want to live theirs.

Nananananananana

Nananananananana

BAT-MAN!!

Sorry. Had to.

lol!