Are some people really so stupid as to expect privacy in SL?

If someone lands in my house unannounced they deserve a trip home..

If someone cams in my house.I don't care..

If someone cams in my house and starts to send me pictures of my things because they have a pissy fetish about how their SL should look and my land gets in the way of their dream? They deserve to be AR'd for harrassment..

The bottom line is whats mine is mine and whats yours is yours..
Not whats mine is mine and yours..If they don't like the scenery they have every right to move away but no right to be an asshat this is my world and you are in my way harasser.

A couple of factors that make this debate more rancorous than necessary are the limitations of the tools available for controlling parcel access: blacklist banlines don't work for skyboxes, and security orbs are scripted as if by sociopaths.

If blacklist banlines went to 4096m (or higher), most of the worst abuses of security orbs wouldn't be needed to keep troublemakers off one's property. See http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2546.

As it is, there's no way to keep a known griefer out of a build over 768m above ground level except by script, and LSL is pretty ill-equipped for this: it's llTeleportAgentHome() or llPushObject(), usually informed by a laggy sensor and (one hopes) llOverMyLand().

That sucks, but security orbs suck way worse than necessary. One problem is the default settings. By default, a security orb should only repel known troublemakers and otherwise merely inform anybody present and authorized that an unknown intruder has been detected, with a clickable chat link to the intruder's profile. That's plenty to provide what most people need for "security" of their SL premises.

Only in extremely hostile areas (or with extremely paranoid owners) is there need for the orb itself to warn and repel intruders, especially when there's no authorized person present on the parcel; such settings should be available, but certainly not the defaults.

And any device that ever pushes or teleports an agent home without adequate warning in any officially SL-supported language returned by llGetAgentLanguage() should be blacklisted from the grid. This is a hostile enough environment for non-English speakers; the last goddamn thing we need is to further restrict SL's global user base with obsolete scripting practices.

^ That's a really good point. ^

In fact more than one.

^ ll ^
; l o
u



Hopefully I just made a LOLcat, to cheer up the thread. =)

ETA: Oh, no, it seems hit by a bus. :/

Good!

Pep (Oh no - when you go into edit it revives! )

Hahaha!

Ghost of LOLcat. =)

Meoww...

Well, I do. Whether their camera is accompanied by an image of their avatar or not, they're still poking around in my stuff. It's just like they're logging in to my computer and reading stuff off my hard disk. Just because they don't damage anything, or I can't tell they're there, that doesn't change the fact that they're violating my privacy. Not being able, even in theory, to create anything in SL that I can control that kind of access to except by

(a) spending US$300 a month for a private island, or
(b) leaving it in inventory and never ever rezzing it,

is a major sticking point for me. I don't consider the illusion of privacy worth anything compared to the real thing.

Hehe I doubt after this you will have any trust with her. More than anything else, you've encouraged her use of ban lines. Anyhoo, I don't see the need for them. I have a lion that stalks my property that I've set to "Defend ON." Any unauthorized visitors soon lose interest after a bit of being stalked by him, annoying if not anything else. And if I'm there I just eject them, simple as that. Easy, works for me.

Just to point out that my original annoyance was with the ban lines set up on an EMPTY plot and the comment that they were set because she wanted privacy. On an empty plot??
I fully appreciate that ban lines/security orbs on a residence, workshop etc. is quite understandable and I am not in the habit of camming into other people’s property even though I know I can.

Sounded like you were agitated in your post.

Ok....logged on this am before coming to work to feed my new puppy and check ims. Saw someone in my house via mystitool (luvs it). I cammed around to pinpoint her exact location and couldn't find her. The orb was sending out notices like crazy and wouldn't eject her because according to the orb for the reject feature to work, Will has to own it since he owns the land for the eject feature to work. Yes the orb is assigned to our group.

I looked up her name in search so I can send her an im asking her to leave the house, not the sim but just my home. She had it hidden, so I couldn't im her. So, I sent out sim notice asking her to leave as she was uninvited. Again, nothing. Several more sim notices and still nothing. Perhaps she spoke another language, I don't know.

So, I had to resort to using the one word I believe everyone knows in sl other than sex and money. BAN! I banned her. After a few days I will un-ban her. In the meantime, I will be shopping for a new orb.

I know some you are entertained and have sheer delight at shooting them, boxing them or whatever. That is your entertainment, but not mine. I don't be bothered with all that and it not MY kind of fun.

When I was a newbie, I did not just walk in people's homes. Instead I brought with me a sense of courtesy that this is someone's home and unless I am invited I will not go in. For a year I didn't even know how to bypass locked doors, until I found out my 1st sl husband was cheating on me and friend told me how to "catch" him in the act. LOL

I understand both sides of the issue and there are some valid points in this thread. I want to something clear, I am all for exploring sl. I just wish there was a middle ground that would make both sides happy but there isn't for now. Sadly, the debate will continue.

Here's the thing...

It's none of your business if the plot was empty. It's not your call.
You don't get to define what should be allowed or not on someone else's land.

If she wants to have banlines up on a single default plywood box, that's her perogative, not yours.

And the rest of it?

Or is cherry picking acceptable now?

What, the part about "Next bit not directed at you, Argent, mon ami) "? It wasn't directed at me, was it?

My point is that any obnoxious behaviour, such as stupid use of ban lines, will generate a backlash. If people started putting big purple crystals (even if they look rather nice on an occasional basis) all over the grid, there would probably be a backlash against them, too (in fact there was a bit of a backlash against them in Nautilus City). Even though the ToS says you're allowed to put purple crystals on your land.

Yes, people are allowed to be stupid and obnoxious in their use of banlines. Just like they're allowed to be stupid and obnoxious in their use of Sion chickens, shouty chairs, and many other things. Pointing out that this kind of thing is stupid and obnoxious and pisses people off is a perfectly reasonable response. Getting surprised when people get pissed off and making absolutist statements about not having the right to demand explanations for it is not reasonable behaviour... because

(a) The ToS doesn't say anything about whether one has the right to ask for an explanation, any more than it says you have to have an explanation.
(b) People will still get pissed off by stupid behaviour, and
(c) Stupid use of ban lines (like your example of ban lines around a default plywood cube) IS still stupid.

Exactly.


What's really stupid is people who lose sleep over someone else's banlines.

What's really stupid is those who complain about what other people do or don't do on their property, property they pay real money for and have the right to do whatever they want as far as ban lines.

What's really stupid is people asking if others are that stupid as to expect privacy in sl.

Maybe, just maybe if there wasn't so many moronic people going where they don't belong in the name of "exploring" then ban lines wouldn't be necessary.

If they were smart enough to know the difference between respecting other people's privacy and staying away from places they have no business visiting there wouldn't be any need for the lines. In most cases the same indiviuals who constantly cry over the lines don't realize these lines exist because of them.

If you can see the ban lines then you're to damn close to begin with.

No you aren't.

One problem, that doesn't really involve property rights at all is people who have them up and don't realize it because they can't see it and never check the parcel's access properties. Abandoned property with the banlines still up is another issue that has nothing to do with property rights. When a parcel is transferred or abandoned, it should revery to allow access by everyone, and the new owner needs to go in there and change it if they want.

Off-topic, but: my back is plenty lashed by purple crystals, inasmuch as the damned things straddle one of my parcels, where they glow and bling from their microparcels, thinly-veiled ads for a casino.

Exaggerate much?
I'm on my own bloody property, looking at a parcel that contains nothing but a dozen rock-textured walls with nothing inside them and on which I have never seen an actual avatar.

I'm on my own property, looking at a wide open garden plot containing a fountain, in which I have never seen an actual avatar.

I'm on my own property, looking at a parcel containing four Linden trees with an unprotected skybox 500 meters up.

I'm having to fly up and over an empty patch of ground between two parcels I own because of ban lines set up by someone who so far as I can tell hasn't logged into SL in two years.

Take your "too damn close" and the rest of your exaggerations and stick them where the sun don't shine, sunshine.

I'm proud of you, Lowell.

Who would of thunk it?

Maybe if you actually had something else to do then constantly harp over someone else's property regardless of the situation you might be able to sleep at nights. Works better then sleeeping pills. Try it.

I may be wrong but I do believe there's something called teleportation or tp or something similar to that name which solves this problem. But don't take my word for it, check around and see.

No need for thanks, I'm all warm and fuzzy inside trying to help you out here.

Exaggerate much?

I think I've seen you on Usenet... you wouldn't be Ricardo G---, would you? Pretty big comedown from KotM to trolling web forums.

And how do you know that you are not welcome on an empty plot if they don't put up ban lines?? If you own the plot next to it then how are you TOO DAMN CLOSE!!
You are all getting away from the point that I was talking about AN EMPTY PLOT.!!

Well those not willing to spend the money for privacy..Just like in RL will be living under the illusion of it until it becomes so important to them that they do decide to spend the money

Personally i don't care what anyone cams in and see's..As long as they keep right on moving never letting me know they were there..What you don't know won't hurt you type of thing..

If they want to get bold and cocky and start sending me pics or IM's with pics..I'm gonna either take care of them myself or LL will..

I'm not gonna hide or worry for one second about things that may or may not be there..

I don't live with the illusion of privacy, or pay for it. I just remain aware that there is no privacy and conduct myself accordingly. Do I sometimes feel it cramps my style? Sure. But being who I am, what can I do about it?

Yeps.. There is nothing we can do about it but not care what others think when we are in our own areas that we call ours..
when they step inside is when they are all ours
kina like play dough hehehehehe