DO NOT use SL to buy anything using your bank account, mine got cleared out

Anyone else here beginning to suspect Rebecca works for Blizzard?

I thought their phenomenal success was due to brainwashing helpless children into being "chair bound losers" with no life???

Make it work? Make it legal? Make it not the laughing stock of online environments? Make it safe?

Nope not at all. Ever actually talk to a bliz employee for any real length of time privately? They HATE bliz even more than the average consumer!!!

LOL ^5

Even worse. She must be an executive then. If she uses the phrases "core values", "mission statement" and "unique vision" then we'll know.

Pardon our manners Jack, we keep forgetting some people are still trying to seriously use this thread.

If someone were to get your paypal pw thru outside means that would be really really bad. Not only could they depleat every finance on record, they could buy eBay and porn all over the place on "your behalf".

Specifically we were saying if someone got your SL pw they can buy $L ingame and then give the $L to their own av/alt. If you have a PP account itself on record with SL, it would first deplete any payapl balance, and then start transfer from whatever you have setup as the default funding source on paypal, potentially maxing that CC or over drawing a bank acc.

The safest way to avoid this is to use paypal's "virtual credit card" generator. It makes up a 16-digit number and then you can set a balance for that v-card and how long it is good for (expiration date). Then give SL that info like any other credit card. It requires more active micro managing on your part. But IF something goes wrong with SL and someone does get your SL pw or fin info, the worst you have to lose is whatever balance you set aside on the v-card (which they'll reimburse anyway), not your whole pp balance and not any other real world fins.

Since Paypal DOES have a published phone# (I was mistaken) in a worst case scenario you CAN get in touch with them quickly, that alleviated my biggest concern. Use a PP generated v-card and you can sleep quite soundly at night

If you use a direct payment from your bank account via direct debit, rather than a credit or debit card, that takes a certain length of time to complete (7-10 days in the UK). During that time, it is a simple matter to cancel the direct debit mandate with your bank. LL can bill paypal, but paypal are then prevented from billing your bank account.

that got a ROFL

I think that online virtual worlds are very attractive for obvious reasons. The issue here is that never before has a widespread leisure activity become so widespread around the world where people forsake real Life and live 14 hours a day in a pretend reality to this degree. Even TV couch potatoes can have a real life. Even drug addicts go outdoors.

If SL was secure and not run by people who absolve themselves from responsibility and who banned bots and protected customers and it wasn't dishonestly charging money for a alpha/beta quality product and service--and if sims and content we "own"were really "owned" on one's own local machines as part of the software--and if they went after the crooks and botters, intensely, like Blizzard does, ---and linked a limited number of alts to a master account, instead of how it is now, and made the L$ ingame only and non-exchangable, and if they had decent customer service, then sure SL WOULD be an alternative to other MMO's because it would be possible for people with no real life to make a lving with their addiction.

It is a major social thing, worldwide, that so many young people spend so much time online and so much time in MMO's. It's like Huxleys "Brave New World"

If one thinks of "time managment" "career couseling, "school counseling," "business time managment" and factors in, 10 hours to play online, then how does that work? this is new territory, not quite comparable to other pastimes and a sociologial phenomena much more complex then having the internet.


Now if we assume that in the future virtual worlds will become even more widespread and that they will become workplaces as well, then you have to have a secure place to work, run by people with the absolute goal and duty to protect that environment, like a bank knows it has to protect the vault. It has to be truly professional in it's operation. At the same time it cannot have activities that are illegal or that are ultimatly going to be considered violations of banking and security laws. You can't have thiefs, crooks, and scammers, running rampant and an attitude that allows such to thrive.

Make it work?
Bliz has it's ups n downs with server reliability and bad patches same as anyone else.

Make it legal?
SL is constantly being scrutized by various gov agencies. Why do you think they've been getting their panties in a bunch over TM's and ageplay? LINDEN DOES NOT MAKE CONTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!! damn my "one" key broke. SL is legal. Some USER activity within it is not, and LL keeps getting the blame.

Make it not the laughing stock of online environments?
WHAAAHAHAHAHAHA@@@2@ Oh that's priceless Ms. Warcrack. WoW is responsible for the phrase of "gamer widow", surely all your extensive research has turned up zero jokes on that subject. Your own eloquently phrased "chair bound losers" is roughly equivalent to the basis of countless jokes.

Make it safe?
It would be rather difficult to make an MMO without any IP connections. The internet is not safe. And as if no one has ever had their b.net account hacked/scammed/stolen/bounced/auto-crashed/impersonated/depleted of inv...

I haven't bought any $L so I don't know if it's different for SL. Paypal "instant transfer"s from my bank for eBay stuff. It comes out of my online bank statement VERY instantly. However if the transaction doesn't go thru for whatever reason, PAYPAL puts a hold on the money for 3 days.

Didn't you say you had some sort of social science degree? Good lord. You are advocating taking people whom you claim are profoundly addicted and trying to make them a profit center by exploiting their addictions. Don't you see how flawed that argument is? It's like taking an alcoholic and giving him a job as a bartender where he's paid in booze. Or making him a beer taster at a brewery. WTF! You don't break the cycle of addiction by making the addiction financially profitable. That's insanity.

I believe that MMO's and SL (which is not an MMO in the traditional definition of the word) can be addictive. We agree there. But when a person is addicted, they don't need to turn their illness into a job FFS, they need to get help to remove the addiction from their life. Whether that's some sort of 12-step program or other tratement, I don't know, but you aren't going to break an addiction to SL by running a profitable business in SL, and it certainly is not LL's job to make it easier for addicts to do so.

It certainly isn't the recipe for a healthy society, is it? But then, it's not LL's job to worry about society as a whole - that's why we pay taxes and have governments; so someone can worry about that for us.

Well if someone wants to refer to an online article from back in September 2006 about a partial hack that exposed limited information on some Second Life accounts for which Linden Lab contacted the individuals and had them change their account payment information and a person who appears to have had their Second Life account information compromised after logging into their Second Life account on several public computer terminals (and doing god knows what else to compromise their identity on public computer terminals) and use that as their basis for removing their payment information from their Second Life I suppose that is their perogative. That kind of information is not likely to compel most people to do the same.

On that note although Chaos can never know, based on his use of public computer terminals, he should assume that his entire identity has been compromised at this point and should have greater concerns than the money he lost and the debt he has incurred from the funneling of money through his Second Life account.

I can only speak from a US law point of view but hopefully the UK has similar remedies for victims of identity theft.

1. He should report his suspected identity theft to the appropriate state and federal authorities. In the U.S. this would be a police report on the local level and an identity theft affidavit on the federal level.

2. He should order a credit report. In the United States anyone can get one free credit report from each of the three credit reporting agencies once a year. The purpose of this credit report is to see if whoever stole his identity is doing anymore damage to his credit in his name.

There are infinitely worse things that someone with his ID information can do on a going forward basis if not checked in time including incurring additional debt in his name by opening up additonal accounts in his name, e.g credit cards, cell phone accounts etc. Under U.S. law taking the above steps would go a long way in insulating him from any additional debt which may arise as a result of future fraud. It would also help him settle his current debts

Trout already beat me to the drug dealers who become addicts do NOT make a profit thing, so I'll gnaw on this for a bit.

You're an idiot. Sorry, I really did try to come up with a better way to phrase that, truth is, you need to hear it. You think some brainy degree means you know it all, when clearly you know very little about some things you shouldn't open your mouth about. You wanna talk about "OWNED" OMFG. Suppose for a moment I own some asset which is located on my personal machine. I rent a store in some mall ingame, and I put this asset on display in my store. I_R_So_Secure Proudhon is simply browsing thru this mall and happens to walk past my store inside her draw distance radius. Her client begins downloading the wall, the wall's texture, some countertop, all from LL servers. Then it receives info that "Asset" is stored on Vamp's personally machine (which happens to be online) and it fetches "Asset". After "Asset" downloads the keyboard mysteriously stops working. The hard drive whirls in to frenzy of chatter and Ms Proudhon's modem lights up like the 4th of July. That "owned" asset just "pwned" your life! I could be sending the feds kiddie porn from your IP, trying to hack the pentagon (from your IP) searching your HDD for 16 digit numbers. Opening your email addr book and emailing a copy to all your friends (won't they be impressed with you) ad nauseum.

speaking of nauseum...

Identity theft is covered by existing fraud legislation as enshrined under the Theft Act 1968. Particularly "obtaining property by deception" and "obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception". He can get as many credit reports as he likes, as often as he likes, but he will have to pay an adminsitration charge for them. I think it's about £2.50 or so. There are only two main credit reference agencies in the UK; Experian and Equifax. Experian are the biggest, and will have all the data that Equifax does. However, some credit providers do not use credit reference agencies at all. Lloyds TSB bank in particular do not report overdraft facilities or LLoyds TSB credit cards at first - not until they officially default. If someone has taken out a facility with such a lender in Chaos' name, it will not show on his credit report until 6 months down the line when the debt finally defaults.

However, if all they have are his bank details, they probably do not have sufficient to steal his identity - they can't even find out his date of birth from that, as that is traditionally what banks would ask a customer to provide as security. Getting a credit report is a good idea anyway, but Chaos has little to worry about on that score. I think they've pretty much done their worst.

Just for the record, we don't even know Chaos' account was hacked. For all we know, he could have pressed the wrong button and tiered up to half a region or something like that.

*pauses*

For all we know, it's quite possible there weren't any charges to his account from LL after all. Grain of salt, 's all I'm saying...

for all we know, anything ANYONE says here could be total bullshit, including what you and i say. just saying... for the record.

That presumes that all they have are his bank details. We are talking about someone who logged onto an online account on not just one but several public terminals. Who knows what else he may have logged onto under his name? I'm not saying his identity has been compromised but he certainly may have laid down the foundation for his own identity theft even if it has not actually happened to be on the safe side he should presume it has.

Oh and btw everyone should order their credit report on an annual basis. You'd be surprised at some of the misinformation that gets filed against you even when your identity has not been stolen.

You're quite right. It just rubs me the wrong way that he likes to throw in these threads to stir up discussions and then refuses to comment on them further. Just as it happened in this case. I would offer apologies... if Chaos would offer a few more details about what actually happened... or better yet, some proof instead of just yelling and running.

The OP has received some very good advice in this thread, including this wonderful info. It is unclear if he has even bothered to come back and read any of it after doing his Chicken Little dance.

I know it was not my intention to wind up defending LL. The breach should have never happened. But sometimes it does happen. I've had very similar convos with folks on adultfriendfinder (oops did I just admit that outloud ) It's scary stuff. What Chaos initially proposed is of utmost concern to many of us. Unfortunately, other than some grandeur gestures, he provided no real substance. Nor answered pertinent questions like "transaction history?"

Heightened intrigue + no followthru = agitated audience.

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liar! liar! pants on fire! No one listen to this untruth. Listen only to the gospel according to Vamp.

Even worse Conan, she is a social worker. Out to save all those who are to stupid to take care of themselves.(This includes everyone but her.) If only we would follow her noble vision, her brilliant plans, her great wisdom, then this would be a better world.

Which is why reputation is important.