New controversial kid-avs-in-Zindra thread!

One you seem to want to determine who participates in too, as if this was your private blog.

[not that anyone pays attention to your efforts to do so though]

Bingo! The same as people still break the ad farm rules, the gambling rules and now the adult content rules. LL lay down the law, some numpties break the law, same as RL. When they get caught, they get dealt with.

For some reason it is one that has never come up in any kid things I am involved with. Never anyone who says 'sorry, you are too neko to play with the rest of the kids'.

Talk about them being derelict in their duties!

Ok that makes sense..so they are basically respecting their customers in that act..
They were not forced to change the TOS .it was just a good business decision more than anything?

And yes i'm not in favor of sexual age play either..just mobs that are against those that don't engage in it saying all child avatars have something wrong with them..

One of the arguments being ..how could someone play someone young like that..well i asked awhile back how many people have avatars that are their true age and not many responded.. lol
how many are playing someone 20 years younger than themselves or more..to me some just want to go back to an age they like..some like to go a little less back some like to go half way back and some like to go farther back..if thats the case then there is something wrong wit a lot of people and really i don't see anything wrong with anyone that wishes to go back in time and live it again..

it's one thing to have a problem with the ones doing something wrong..but it's wrong for people to gang up on people that are not doing anything wrong at all..

i just can't grasp why someone would look at a whole group and hate them ya know?

No that is not the subject of this thread. It is about the depiction of children in inappropriate settings in SL - what is considered broadly offensive - and in some cases illegal in some countries.

I have been in SL since 2005. I have ignored the child avatar forum and blog posts for quite some time. I have encountered child avatars on friend's private islands - and their behavior was outrageous - but i did not say anything. I have received chatlogs showing these things to happen and a list of places that harbor these activities in SL. The 2006 -2007 scandal - the SL Birthday party child avatar debacle, Zindra nonsense. At a certain point enough is enough.
This is my regular stance on anything I am discussing. I am a little intense.
I have one adult business - a restaurant - I have a learning facility for venue professionals and a public roadside pool. Banning adult content would not effect me at all.
I rant and you discuss. I believe it becomes a rant when you do not agree with what is being said. And it gives you the opportunity to belittle the person you do not agree with.

I don't think that's important. Her arguments stand or fall on their own, regardless of her motives.

lear my point was that protecting one's income and SL creations, locations, businesses etc...makes much more sense to me than the child av ban arguments.

No, this thread's subject is saying a child AV who lands in a Zindra infohub is okay according to LL. You then hijacked it (and later claimed you do not start anti-kid threads).

You keep talking about other people's motivations in their stances so I think it is pretty fair for people to examine your as well.


SL5B? What about that was bad for kids? LL took preemptive action against kid avatars and other residents overwhelmingly took them to task on it. KIDS5B resulted. An LL action was mostly overturned .... a rarity.

Enjoy your nap?

I have never started a thread on child avatars. I responded on topic to the thread and suggested a way to make this non-incident that Dakota felt compelled to post about not happen again. You can call it hijacking all you want. That does not stop me from discussing it in an open forum.
I never spoke of motivations. I believe that was JoJo.
Not overwhelmingly. The folks that agreed with the LL ban on child avatars just did not speak up. Those days are over.
No more un-apposed aggressive group think on this subject. You are going to have to get used to people discussing the impact of child avatars on the SL Community and weighing the pros and cons.

I say this group has shown little or no control or concern about what is considered broadly offensive (Mature adults do not need to get a list of broadly offensive infractions to understand what they are). And that the child avatar should be banned from the grid. Others see this as an extreme solution. Maybe there is a happy medium, maybe not. We shall see.

The happy medium that has come about over the past 20 or 30 years or so to lifestyle bashing is legislation against it. Maybe in time, if a child av applied for a job or position of some sort on your land Lias, you may have to accept them.

You should, instead of hijacking other threads.

That's right. Lias and BOTH of her friends will no longer remain silent.

Da three Amigo's ride again..

Lucky Day
Dusty Bottoms
Ned Nederlander

Stay tuned as they hunt down El Guapo and his plethora of pinatas hehehehe

So we add the fact that LL has a 'banned word' list not and moved content that, at one time, it described as 'extreme' to another continent.

*gasp*

All the people moved to Zindra are immature then? Which means kids, right? So what are you doing over there not to be seen as pedos?

The Lindens refuse to publish the banned word list. People have to realize on their own what a sexual charged or inappropriate word is and not use it. Compliance is expected. And non compliance will not start a internet scandal - the way the child avatars started one. What are you talking about?

oh you are making it sound like this child avatar scandal had hurt SL and the sex industry in sl hasn't touched SL's reputation..
what do you think this whole move was for?
because they are trying to get back on track because the sex industry became what people think of when they hear the name second life..

you can't blame that on one incident or on child avatars..that business was part of SL's sex industry..
one guy hiring escorts to pose as kids..it wasn't a bunch of child avatars coming from the pg area to get their thrills..it was someone that opened an escort business and found an edge to make money in the sex industry..

you need to stop separating it from that and realize at that time it was part of what we now call adult rated..and if it wasn't banned it would be sitting over there with you now in zindra....and all those child avatars that are in pg now would still be in pg or mature..there is no flood in zindra and there won't be..untill someone comes knocking for another thing that makes someone else sick and another element of that adult rating is told to GTFO..

That problem is long gone along with other things in that industry that were disallowed..
Keep tapping on the door and more may come to thin it out more than it is now..maybe they will thin it so much that they don't need an adult rating anymore..

all ya need to do is have enough people on the outside saying this is sick and that is sick to make it happen..keep on attracting those types and see how free sl is in the future..

Your confusing Freedom with depicting activities that are used to depict RL illegal acts and broadly offensive actions.

The reason LL kept it's adult content for now is because we represent a huge income for them (that is how it was affordable for them to set up new servers for us). Traditionally child avatars represent sexual innapropriateness within SL. Two very different impressions.

I find virtual games and worlds where people act out blood, gore, killing, war, etc. etc. etc. to be depicting illegal, immoral and disturbing RL acts but I don't see an end to that coming any time soon... since it's imaginary.

We really don't wanna go down the "thought crime" road.

No sorry wrong

Traditionally Child avatars represent the child in the person behind the avatar.

Child avatar is not the same as child sex ... its JUST an avatar.

It does NOT become sexual inappropriateness until they DO SOMETHING inappropriate. A great many child avatars do not EVER do anything to equate themselves with kiddie porn.

Twist words all you like but it doesn't make you right on this one.

i'm not confusing anything..you are saying this scandal has hurt sl and separating it from the sex industry at the time..i'm saying they were both one and the same at that time..

that it is a matter of time before someone else comes in and sets another one of you up..
maybe escorts or water sports or GORE or whatever..

this is not something that is illegal in the U.S but is in another country..
so who is to say that some other scandal doesn't come up and depictions of something else are to turn illegal in another country and LL decide to follow that law in here as well..

you are only as good as your tier..not your content ..so don't think it is because of adult content that there is a continent called Zindra..it's because a chunk of tier would have went away..the major income is tier..don't pay yours and you lose your land no matter what you make in world..
the content wasn't paying for anything but the tier..don't fool yourself..you guys didn't pay for those servers lol every ones tier in sl did..that and maybe xstreet being a good investment..

put adult content on an island and let the residents sort it out is what zindra is there for..

You are sitting on what is considered the free'est land in sl's mainland..with that is value which attracts land business..

you don't think land business is not gonna nab up land when they can?people will go back to their old tricks of driving people off their land like they were on mature..walling them in..blocking their lots off...now that you all are over there and people want the land ..adult content could fall off the map and it's tier would be replaced..let residents ease it out and the economy will adjust..you are about to see the next phase of thinning the weak out..
the strong ones will still be around..that and the residents that want to have the freedom of having sex in their yards or where ever lol

my opinion has always been that zindra being created would thin that stuff out over there..they don't have to hunt for where the good land is anymore..it's all in one nice neat little spot..

True, but it would be infinitely more difficult (and possibly unattractive) for a pedo to perform such an act without child avatars. What you also must keep in mind that it was no "only" a child avatar, but a 13 year old girl behind the child avatar.

With the (relatively) high influx of underage in SL, some of which are masquerading as child avatars, it represents a vector for such deviants to operate in SL with relative ease. The risk of real children getting hurt is, in my opinion, unacceptably high.

I think it is unacceptably high *regardless* of avatar.

Further, I would contend that one could find more RL children in adult avatars hanging out in adult environments (or at least attempting to get into same) that one would find in child avatars. Indeed, the times I've come across RL children on the Main Grid, they tended to be the especially overbuilt men and women of the grid, usually in "gangsta" attire and brandishing weapons, sexual attachments, or both.

Perhaps, therefore, those avatars should be banned. Hmm. It would seem the very same logic could well apply, no?

1. Some RL kids get onto SL
2. Some RL kids choose adult avatars

Solution ban adult avatars

No wait, you say, that's not an appropriate solution! Why punish the whole for the infractions of some? In that, I'd agree. In fact, I'd be willing to defend the rights of those who are adults and are not involved in such activities.

So what is really the issue here? To me, it seems that "ban kid avvies zOMG RL pedophiles might actually find a child to corrupt when they're not trawling on MySpace where the *real* kids are!" is not *really* what is going on here, now is it?

it was just a matter of time for this BS
kid avatar leads to rl kids leads to pedophiles

it already breaks in the first part
please go back to fighting windmills

As Chris Norse has asked several times now, how do you propose such a ban? There is no "Child" avatar type in the appearance controls.

A ban would do absolutely nothing to stop those who would use child avatars for nefarious purposes, as they already have to hide their actions. It only punishes legitimate users of them by squashing their freedom of expression.

Underage users and sexual ageplay are already banned in Second Life, and there are controls in place to deal with them.

Banning child avatars to prevent "virtual pedophilia" makes as much sense as banning minority avatars to prevent racism.

Well put. Those who want to play those sorts of games will continue to do it. When "Wonderland" and it's ilk were forced off of SL, they moved to an OpenSim. I'm sure they're likely still floating about out there somewhere. Likewise, I'm sure there were plenty of non-SL locations for that, and will likely always be. I've also seem "babified" adult avatars out there who may or may not be involved in such activities (probably part of some of the "adult baby" or "diaper fetish" stuff). Heck, I don't doubt -- though again, this is purely suspicion -- that there are a few private island out there where such activity takes place. Frankly, as long as they stay away from the rest of SL with that, I suspect they'll still be around.

Meanwhile, there's a sizable majority of kid avvies out there who aren't interested in all that. heck, I wasn't back when I was still an adult avatar and new to SL. Pixel-play just seems like a waste of good energy, and has got to be a somewhat poor substitute for, y'know, flesh-and-blood people. I'm NOT alone in the desire for a kid-like existence within Second Life. The places I RP don't have all that stuff. There's no hidden dungeon rooms in the janitor's closet at HardKnock Elementary, nor any badges for Gorean Submission from Kid Scouts. Heck, even swear words will usually get you snubbed at a lot of the kid locations, if not outright banned.

Am I saying this to tout how good us kids are? No. Just laying out the facts. Those who want to do ill will continue to do ill -- and LL has made policies that will allow all of us to report such issues when we find it. Those who are not doing such will also continue to live their (Second) lives free of such activities.

Throwing out the babies with the bathwater simply would not work.

Mari