New controversial kid-avs-in-Zindra thread!

I think you must mean children in SecondLife? (Which I take for granted you helped off the grid.)

There are 3 variations of this that are all illegal in most jurisdictions if in a sexual /adult context :

* The depiction of child like avatars in sexual situations. This can occur regardless of the age of the person behind the avatar

* Real children masquerading as child avatars

* Real children masquerading as adult avatars

As I have stated in another posting, for child avatars in general I have the following PRIMARY position:

I would like to see a ban on all child avatars in SecondLife because:

a) As long as Linden Lab cannot guarantee that residents are not underage (in legal terms), child avatars is a vector for pedophiles operating in SecondLife where the risk of real children being hurt is unacceptably high.

b) Allowing child avatars creates an unacceptable business risk in that both Linden Lab and resident businesses become exposed to regulatory intervention by legislators, and litigation by authorities and individuals in the countries Linden Lab offers this service. It also unduly exposes residents to incriminate themselves according to legislation of their country of residence.

My SECONDARY position is:

If Linden Lab can guarantee that residents are of legal age, child avatars could be allowed under the provision of a registry where such avatars must register, and then be restricted to non adult areas of the grid. The reason for this is that point b) above still is valid since ANY depiction of child like avatars in adult/sexual situations can incriminate the resident according to the legislation in some countries.

I don't see such registration being anything different than the massive registration that is happening for adult avatars these days through the "account verification" procedure (which writes a flag in your account record.)

Correct and correct. I edited the above to make that clear.



Correct. For that matter, one can take your last bullet points and combine them into one: RL Children on the main grid.

Both of these -- as well as, of course, RL adults getting onto the Teen Grid -- are disallowed by the Terms of Service and Community Standards.

must not godwin... must not godwin

did i manage to make the needed point without it or is it a meta godwin?

We'll only know for sure when Brenda comes 'round.

I was gonna write another much longer response to all this, but I realized that it's so unnecessary. Topic's been talked to death. LLs rules are in place, they're sticking by them, and frankly there are far bigger concerns for businesses and Residents in here than this - like the stuff in RH Engle's threads.

So, let me get this straight: Some guy lands in a welcome area, spots a child avatar, and propositions said child avatar for sex... and it's the child avatar's fault?

Your sense of reasoning and reality are more warped than I could possibly have imagined!

If what words are so obvious then why can I do PG (or PG and mature) searches for terms that just do not happen to be on the banned words list and still get hits? Somehow I would guess a place whose description is 'freesex! free sex! free sex! freesex! free sex!' is MAYBE adult.

Umm .... no such animal in SL. It is essentially a monarchy with M as the King and everyone with the last name of Linden able to exert some level of control on the serfs.


Wrong again, it is pretty widely known they had a bunch of free servers from the openspace mess. Combine that with them collecting tier on more land (with the bonus of them getting to sell any land that was traded in) and it is hardly a loss for LL.

You make this to easy Lias, go away and have a nap.

LOL you do realize how silly you sound, right Gavin?

What are the two things a kid who would play SL would want?

1) To hide. The very LAST thing they would do is play a kid.

2) To be seen as a grownup or gain power. Another reason why they would not be a child avatar, especially with the restrictions LL has placed on child avatars.

You also are making the assumption that there is this clamor of underage users to get in SL. While it is true some do, more often they are not interested even when they do turn 18. The average SLer is middle-aged.

You did not post to 'get it straight'. Because you refuse to read the thread on the virtual pedophilia incident and see that the child avatar agreed to the proposition and left with the adult avatar.

But that was not your point. You just want to attempt to discredit anything that goes against what you want to believe - and discredit anyone that dares speaks out.

The facts are posted several times for you to 'get it straight'. The reporter's name is available and he has chat logs. No matter how warped you insist it is - it is not debatable.

Jesus Harold Christ, this is like the pot calling the crockpot black.

As has been asked MANY times now: define the parameters of a child avatar.


If a RL child were in Second Life it would not matter what age they are. Since LL is standing by Aristotle (even though everyone knows it is flawed) does that mean their policy should be to only allow verified people into SL?

No Mari. This thread is not about RL Children - but nice try.

Again, it is about the perceptions of children in inappropriate adult settings. When adults wear child avatars and engage in adult activities in SL - it is broadly offensive - that is what is being discussed here. Sorry you got confused. Gavin's other thread was about RL Children in SL - not this one.

I know your much sharper than that though. So if you will engage in these tactics to blur the issue - I now see why the rest of the gnomes feel it is an effective tactic also.

So no underage children. You and Gavin go off in a corner and figure out your combined story as you seem to be taking opposite stances, kay?

Kara your group think agenda is not my own. People with different opinions on a subject can post in the same thread. Someone's opinion is not disqualified because it does not mirror any others.

People have many reasons to be concerned about child avatars in Second Life. All concerns are valid and should be discussed freely without your approval.

Spend a week in and around the Bay City Infohubs and come back and report your findings. I am sure even you will be surprised.

Right, but you can hardly expect anyone to take you two seriously when you both are stating what the thread is about and they do not agree. Which means both of your comments are sub-threads and have nothing to do with each other.

Not to mention that NEITHER of you are right. The thread is whatever the OP posts. You just hijacked it.

something that is already banned and as pointed out many times, more bans will not make something that is already banned go away.
it does not matter if they break one rule or 10, if you see somethign against the TOS then AR and let the G-Team handle it, if it does not break any rule then life and let life.

Gavin wants to ban child avs because he thinks it gives a way for rl kids to hide, this has been proven wrong as most kids hide in adult looking avatars and even if they hide in a child avatar on a rare occasion then just ar for being underage, nothing more needed.

You Lias want to ban child avs because you think most are used for sex, this has also been proven wrong because of the lack of reports in the policeblotter, offcourse you try to explain that away with some conspiricy but tactics like that only make you look, wel nutty for lack of better words.

There is no reason for a blanket ban on child avatars because your concerns have been met a long time ago, both rl underage players and sex with child avatars are against the TOS and in case of sexual activety the violation is for all avatars involved.

there is no problem that LL has not already adressed so no need to go looking for one or creating one.

someone please remind me to put a preamptive ban for these nutcases in my estates

/me points to her mentor badge and the fact that when she goes to an infohub it is that one

No, it does not, because there is no system that can reliably verify / guarantee the age of a global audience. You might be able to do in some countries, but not across the board. (This is also the very reason why I think merging SL with the teen grid would be corporate suicide on LL's part. )

Because of this, my primary position is to ban the use of any child like avatars, (not the persons behind them) for the reasons I have stated earlier. This including stating in your profile that you play a person under the age of 18.

So might as well ban everyone, right? You do not need t even wear a kid shape to proclaim your avatar is underaged.



So anyone who does not state that is not a kid avatar then?

great there go all the fairies hobbits/halflings and pixies, they look like kids but are not kids, even LL recognises that but you want those banned anyway.
and all that just because you are worried by rl underaged players that break the rules just by comming to sl.

a ban to fix something that is already banned, very logical

Make owning hand guns a criminal offense and only criminals will own hand guns.

Make having a child avatar against the rules then only deviants will have child avatars.

Why not just admit that you and Lias have an axe to grind with normal, decent people that are using child avatars and that none of this has anything to do with pedophiles?

Yes it will.
This has not been proven wrong. I personally know of two canadian sisters, RL ages 10 and 12, that have been child AVs for over a year on the grid. They get abuse reported and come back in alts. They have a store on the mainland. They are members of SL families (although the oldest one gets kicked out of families because she ends up cursing out her online mother). People socialize with these two because they think are cute kids. Ban kid avatars and unsupervised children like this have less opportunity to hide behind this sort of facade.
Linden Lab does not put pedophilia on their police blotter - so nothing is proven from looking at that document. You can go on blissfully sure there is no incidents of virtual pedophilia going on in SL. That is a nice happy place you are in.
Not true. Incidents of sexual activity involving child avatars still continue in Second Life. Child avatars in adult areas still make many uncomfortable and virtual nude beaches with adult nude avatars interacting with nude child avatars happens every day in SL - a act I feel is broadly offensive - and if screen shots of that were posted on the net it would be considered child porn.

Because child avatars continue to be used in these manners - they should be banned to put an immediate stop to the infractions.
You will need to ban many people from your adult rated island where you allow child avatars in the same houses with sex gen beds. Some may not understand.

Again, you feel people need to agree. This is not group think. It is an open discussion.
Correct. There may be several conversations going on in a forum thread. It is not all that confusing and the adults reading can distinguish the two lines of thought .
Kara perhaps you need to count all of your posts in this thread and see where your culpability comes into play. This post you just made right now is way off the OPs topic. But you are ok with your own actions. Whatever.