Ban Ban Lines - the ultimate legalised griefing weapon

I think this is what you get when the in world population balloons like it has. Shambling blinged-out avis, scuffing along the virtual ground martini in one hand, newb penis in the other, smoking a cigar, and wondering "wherez teh gunz?".

I think the grid is overpopulated. The Lindens are stretched too thin. Land is too expensive to initially buy. Tier is a pain in the ass. And thanks to no zoning by LL, the nice plot you buy will soon probably be surrounded by ugliness within 72 hours. And, by the time you figure out your little 512 doesn't have nearly enough prims to do anything interesting with...the rest of the sim's been snatched - and getting another prim parcel just got ridicuously expensive.

So...I can understand why people hunker down in their virtual bunkers and wrap themselves with banlines. I've always thought that region crossings which disintegrate my aircraft were a much bigger problem, access-wise.

Teleport works wonders. Try it sometime. Just use map, click on a spot and TP there.

Set autoreturn on your land to 5 minutes? Problem solved without griefing your neighbours.

Broccoli

That means the owner has an access list which means EVERYONE other than the people on the list is banned.

This may be a great compromise between those who want to 'own' land, and those who want to explore. What you're addressing here, is Whitelists - and within that scope alone, I think they're good ideas.

But, this issue is more than just about Whitelists, unfortunately. If you're a buisness owner, you may not care about privacy, but you need to protect yourself against griefers. For those folks, they're going to make use of a blacklist - and time delays dont work for blacklists. If someone is harrasing your customers, you want them gone *now*, not in 1-2 minutes.

Don't get me wrong - I still think your idea is a good one. But, we still have competing interests out there that are not easily solved with a single solution.

That's fine when that's all you need to do, but sometimes it's nice to see what's between A and B. if someone can figure out a way to do away with the banlines , while still preserving owners acess control of space while making passthrus available, great. i'll vote for it. Otherwise I believe in being able to use any tools and options provided

It is, but like RL, there are public places and PRIVATE property. Maybe we all need to complain that we can't all have a picnic on the White House lawn at any given time and remove the term "trespassing" from the dictionary. Pull your skirt down man.

You can say that again. No one is helping me with my land and tier costs. That is selfish.

You're confusing real life with virtual life again.

Privacy in Second Life is a non existant concept. Unless you want to buy a private island and close it to everyone, then people can cam in or walk through walls to get into your property and see what's going on.

Second Life is supposed to be a communal, shared experience. People like you are destroying that, and so many great opportunities for collaboration and friendship beyond all the usual boundaries. But, then again, what do you actually do in Second Life that warrants privacy? Don't say "its my right" or "I pay so I can do what I like" ... why do you feel so threatened by other people walking by?

Broccoli

Of that, I have no doubt. However, we could at least smack down the complainers with "RTFM, turn down the ban line draw distance" and the discussion has more of a chance to die quickly.

--Hugsy

depends on if the wired fence is electric or not.

Travis has illustrated somwthing I've always believed. Sometimes in these posts people get so defensive of THEIR motivations for using and expectations from SL, in absolute terms sometimes, "SL is supposed to X". but that's not the case. SL is X, to you , Y to me, Z to someone else. As the population grows, there wll be the need to change and adapt, so we all can have it as much our way as we can without preventing you from having it your way.A lot of smart people here, with some good ideas. we should consider them, and hope LL will too.

According to the Knowledge base, the ONLY time ban lines go over 50m is if the person has been banned from a parcel by name...it specifically says that those generated by access lists are 50m.



However, it's 50m above ground level, so if someone is flying from a 'sea-level' area into a hillier one, they'll have to pull up correspondingly to avoid the ban lines, even if they could have cleared the hills at their previous altitude.

Communal, shared experience? Sorry that isn't my world or my imagination. I have enough communal shared experience in the real world.

Yes people can cam in, but I don't see their damn camera. I can mute them from speaking to me if I so chose and keep them from my property, so their cam doesn't bother me.

As for what I am doing that I need privacy, well Broccoli, that is none of your business. But if you must know........... I am rezzing and deleting plywood cubes, over and over again. This is how I relax and I prefer to do it with no interruptions.


Maybe this is another of those cultural things, you live under a state that films you everywhere you go. I still have the right to tell a government agent to go preform an unnatural sex act if I don't want to tell him where I am going or where I came from.

I wasn't going to post in this thread any more but....

I don't remember seeing it posted anywhere that SL was 'supossed to be a communal, shared experience'. I distinctly remember it being touted as 'Your World, Your Imagination'.


This is one of those things that is a pet peeve of mine. I find it to be very disrespectful to call someone's feelings into question, challening them to justify their feeling or emotions. Feelings and emotions can be difficult to justify, and in the end, it's immaterial anyways. To deny someone's right to feel a certain way or imply that they are 'wrong' or their emotion is invalid, is IMHO quite rude.

Taken in the context of the whole post, which seems rather condescending, makes me suspect that no answer will be accepted regardless. As has been mentioned several times in this thread, and the others like it, this is one of those issues that's not going to be [Resolved]. People who pay for land will choose to do what they want, and sometimes that will piss off someone who wants to roam.

I don't use banlines myself but I don't care if someone else wants to -- and I won't try and belittle, cajole, or bully them into thinking that they are foolish or silly or 'wrong' for wanting to do so.

-Atashi

Broccoli has a good point. Ban Lines should stop Cams too.

I have no choice but to challenge someone to justify their behaviour if it clearly doesn't make sense to me or, it seems, quite a few others.

After all, if we don't question, we don't learn do we? It's possible that some people may change their views having seen someone provide a clear, rational explanation as to why they feel the way they do over an issue.

Apart from some foaming-at-the-mouth "It's mine and I pay for it" rants, nobody has really provided any justification for excluding the 99% of perfectly innocent, pleasant, friendly people in SL from walking past or flying over their house.

If Linden Lab considered sim layouts a bit more, and included some road systems/right of passage through all regions so it was more like real life, I'm sure many of the rampant "anti acccess" people wouldn't be so militant over the issue.

Broccoli

Perhaps. In England, we still have culture.

We also don't live in such a fearful society where people feel they have to own guns "just in case".

Broccoli

Well, that is implied isn't it?

The reason is in order to keep out griefers, squaters, snoops, spies, spybots, ex's alts, etc - basically a whole laundry list that makes up the "1%" in your claim.

Since you couldn't possibly know all their names .. and they would exceed 300 in any case .. you have to limit access.

Sounds to me more like a case of extreme paranoia than anything else, to be honest.

Broccoli

Sharing to me is something I do voluntarily, because I want to . Not because I am supposed to. or forced to. To those who ask people who wish for privacy and wonder what they want to hide, I ask why do you care? if someone wants to build themselves a virtual fortress and hole up inside of it, what business is it of ours?

This is YOUR definition of Second Life...we may not all have the same view, and that's sort of the point of the whole thing. Besides, there's no reason we can't do the community thing at times and huddle in our 'bunkers' at others.



Why not? Those are perfectly legitimate answers. Sometimes I want to be alone, for whatever reason, or hang out in peace with a couple friends, and that's why I own my little parcel. When I want to be social, I go out...just like RL.



It's not a matter of feeling threatened, and they're generally not just 'walking by.' You may think it's weird that I don't want strange people wandering through my house and sitting on my couch, and that's fine, but LL says my tier payment allows me to control that little bit of server space to some extent...so I do, in the way that makes my personal SL-experience best. I don't have ban lines on the ground, but I disable build, object entry, and scripts. I do have a security orb on my sky box, with a reasonable warning period. That works for me. I don't like ban lines, but I don't begrudge other parcel owners the right to put them up.

I agree ban lines suck, but those against them really need to stop to think about something... The only land anyone has a 'right' to be on is Linden owned land. People seem to forget that most of the land in SL is being paid for by other residents with their hard earned money. With out those residents who invest in owning land, there really wouldn't be much of a mainland at all.

That being said.. I do think landowners (which I am one) should have to see their own ban lines and I myself would like more warning when I am boating. You never see them until it is too late, if at all.

Yes, but its group land (my group) and if you forget to have the right group on, it gets returned to you inventory.

Yes, just in case I need to protect my family, just in case I need to provide food for my daughter, just in case I need to shoot a jack booted thug trying to take my neighbors to concentration camps, just in case I choose to be a free man not a slave. Throughout history Brocc, that is who were prohibited from owning weapons, slaves and serfs.

So yes, Brocc, I own my guns just in case. I choose to be responsible for my own safety and my own security. And yes Brocc, if you were my neighbor, I would come to your aid against the things that go bump in the night.