Ban Ban Lines - the ultimate legalised griefing weapon

Oh, for pete's sake!

Oh, for pete's sake!

It would drive demand for security orbs, actually.

You left out the fact that trespassing/breaking and entering (the two are inherently linked on SL) is a crime and you can report or turn people in for trespassing on/breaking into your/someone else's property.

I'd actually be thrilled with that: get rid of ban lines, while adding trespassing as an offense to the CS. Find someone in your house or on your land who shouldn't be there: AR them. If they do it twice more, poof suspended or banned.

I run smack into ban lines all the time. I haven't ever been knocked out of the game by them, but they are annoying. If I could see them before I run into them, I'd avoid them.

Well, I suppose they would, thinking about it practically.

coco

I don't know why this hasn't been mentioned at all yet, but it seems like everyone is so quick to apply RL conventions of land ownership to SL. Fine. Make it so people can't trespass on your land, but stop taking only what benefits you from the equation. People completely forget that in RL we have an entire system of access that allows people freedom of movement. Roads, trails, sidewalks, and airways. In SL, the land all butts up against other land. In RL, land would be taken from those homeowners by the government (at least in the US) and dedicated to public use - roads and access. In RL, the airspace over your home is free to air travel. It makes sense to have a higher level of privacy and control over your land in RL, for very obvious reasons, but people have a public system of roads they can travel to get from point A to point B. In SL it's impossible (for the most part) to travel any way other than by tp without crossng someone's land.

Just a thought for those of you who want to defend your right to own land so violently - if you want to apply RL concept of land ownership, then you should be prepared to make the sacrifices that go along with RL ownership.

Your post just wow'd me. Excellent points.

When you're tired of being griefed at home.

Mari

But no one is forced to open their house to anyone. The supposed 50m ban line limit (minus specific bans) is supposed to take care of this issue - generally, if you fly high enough, you should be able to move across land in enough time to do your business, even if there is a security orb, unless you are flying across a full sim that is a singular parcel. And in a world that includes TPs and camming in from 2 sims away, the rl sacrifices are not necessary for exploration.

Well Trout, the concept of the teleport makes any sacrifice by land owners in SL unneeded. A person does not have to cross anyone else's land for any reason, all they have to do is hit the teleport button.

Actually it's never the land owners that are complaining, it's the people who feel entitled to go wherever they please in a world where you can simply tp from point A to point B. There is absolutely no need to travel in SL, it's simply a personal choice you impose on yourself (and wish to impose onto others).

If teleportation was possible in RL, most roads and railways would be recycled to serve a different economical purpose/public function than transporation.

There's already a perfectly acceptable compromise in place today: land owners can only restrict access under 50m above ground level and residents have free passage at 50m AGL and up. There are also literally dozens upon dozens of Linden owned sims where access is utterly unrestricted.

If anything I'd say the system is very much biased towards passing through rather than the "rights" of the landowner but apparantly that won't keep people from demanding that they have the god-given right to nose around on every last cm of the grid, privately owned or not .

I live on a pretty obscure set of private islands where ban lines ARE banned by covenant. I get 5-10 random people a day coming thru. They are respectful enough that they don't leave stuff lying around, so really I don't care. I rarely see any of them; the ones I do see are either lost noobs or looking at property. It's worth having them come through randomly to be able to fly and boat all around the pretty place in peace.

I think I'm going to rez that fire that catches avatars out for Halloween, tho! Maybe I'll hear from some of them then ...

I do, and I am.

I have no need for Ban Lines as I use a Resident created Security System instead. It works far better than LL's. However, I do have several problem children banned, and do like to reserve the right to use the Ban Lines if I deem them nessicary. As well as Prevent Pusn, Prevent Scripts, and Preventing Object Entry.

For the "sacrifices": They have been "paid" since day one. Taxes in RL, Tier in SL.

Roads? They're there. One right by my home. It's why I bought the land there. There's also a railroad station within sight frommy decking.

I log in almsot every day in order to upkeep my land. I have a package setup on the corner of my property for New Residents to give them tips, pointers, advice, and information on SL. Part of this involves me allowing build, so I get trash all over the place from this. I've had a few Newbies stop to chat and ask questions and I answer as I'm able and have time. (mostly I hand them the package as it has lots of landmarks for NCI and such places for further help).

I also buy out ad-cutters when I can. They contaminate the whole of SL and ruin the immersion for all. I'm sure those speaking of seeing SL through exploration can attest to the ugliness created by 16m ads int he middle of nowhere.

I routinely patrol my home sim and send neighbors IMs when I see problems with trash, or griefers, or even to advise them of land for sale if I know they're looking for it. I take time to help new neighbors with build tips, and will help identify lag items if they ask.

All-in-all, I try to be a good neighbor and do what I can to look out for the good of the sim and grid while paying my tier to LL for maintences and such through tier. Basically, I do everything in SL for my land there that I do in RL for my home here. So yes, I think I can defend my right to defend my land as I see fit and it falls within the terms and conditions laid down by LL.

I may protect my land and that of my friends using every tool available to me, but I do so because we have seen the "attacks" of others. Sadly, that affects the innocents that like to fly unhindered. I like to walk the malls in RL and look at all the stores and items, I can't do that at night because RL crime happens, so the stores lock their doors.

So, as long as rude people exist in SL (and that's the griefers and the people that sit-slide into houses to use someone else's poseball sets) then there will be Ban Lines and Security Systems to prevent them. Want a free SL? Find a way to make everyone play nice. I wish I knew that way, but I don't.

And no, Trout, this isn't an attack on you. Your statement was very well spoken, but touched a nerve. A lot of us who "defend" our rights for our lands so violently, are usually the ones who give a lot to the world. Some would say it's just a "virtual" world, but you know what? No matter if it's RL or SL, how we treat others reflects on who we are.

~Jessy

Actually, that was the bumblebee, not bee. And incidentally, they have proven a short while ago that these calculations from way back were wrong and bumblebees are indeed able to fly and comply with the laws of physics... by only just that much.

One thing is have them appear on your radar in a differnt colour or something...

Well hitting a ban lined which caused me to crash for the umpteenth time while simply flying from a to b (use teleporters and see sl ? I dont think so) hit a nerve too unfortunately I have been called a troll for airing my view and being accussed of doing good knows what for hitting a ban line that was already there.

And I dont think setting up a barrier which is known to cause people to crash out or deform there avatars is treating people particularly nicely. It certainly makes me reflect very badly on people who set these things up.

As for being nosey if I see a building of interest, yes I'll stop to look. Im flattered when people come to see my tower or space station even though I merely assembled other peoples buildings. I openly invite my neighbours to come in and have a look. If anyone leaves junk I simply alter the return settings.

Maybe Im even more annoyed because in my first region I endured a right pain in the ass who delighted in banning people who werent even on his land. His banning system deliberately spammed and caused people to crash and the attitude of some people here would indicate that as he was on his own land he had the right to do that. He destroyed a nice little community 'protecting himself'....

OK, now that guy was a griefer himself, and acting as described is one kind of TOS violation that Lindens have a history of definitely not liking. Him, everybody should have AR'ed. Then he would be gone, and your former community might still be there.

But please don't take it out on people who, in many cases, are dealing with being on the receiving end of harrassment when they put up banlines.

Back when I started, we could see the ban lines a good distance away.. but people complained that they cluttered up the view of their lands. So, rather than making it a toggle to be able to see the ban lines up close or further back, LL decided on just making them impossible to see until you cross them. Yeah.. that works real well, doesn't it?

Access restrictions: red lines of "No entry", give you a blue pop-up in the bottom-right corner of the screen that says "Can't enter parcel, not on access list.". Do not exist beyond 50m AGL and don't do anything to your avie other than preventing you from moving beyond the barrier.

Security orbs: invsible, if you're lucky you get a warning pop-up in the top-right corner of the screen. Can eject you from the land ("You've been ejected" pop-up in the lower-right corner), can force tp home you home or can orbit you into the next few sims.

A lot of what you described in this thread can be attributed to security orbs rather than banlines. They're most certainly not synonyms.

Unless you're in a vehicle.. Then they're all sorts of annoying.

I've never seen nor heard of a ban line or security orb doing either of these. They might knock you out of your vehicle - as does entering a full parcel a lot of the time - or eject you from the area, but that's it.

You were called a troll because of the attitude you had when making your arguments and the language you used.


As for all of your crashing out, we have you saying banlines cause you to crash, and everyone else that says they just bounce them back. I did know someone who was crashed out due to banlines. The problem was with their computer.

I'll vouch for that

I have never crashed from hitting a ban line, only bounced back (In one super-lag situation it was across the sim, but yeah lol)

Knew one person so far who did crash, and as said above, it was their computer

There used to be a lot of security orb crash (and disconnect) problems, partly from poor (or malicious) coding on the part of the coders, partly due to problems with SL. I think most of them have been fixed, but it wouldn't surprise me to know that there are still a few lurking about here and there.

Banlines are generally safe, with one exception: Crossing sim borders and hitting a ban line that touches the sim border in the sim you are crossing in to. That can do all sorts of wild, unpleasant things. I've never had it crash me, per say, but I have had it fling me far and fast enough away to unsync my avatar and force me to relog.