Ban Ban Lines - the ultimate legalised griefing weapon

It's cool. I took mine down, bought this nifty device. You now have 5 seconds to get off my land before being ported home.


Guess you'll be okay with that. Since there are no ban-lines.

I have no problem with ban lines at all but I wish people who use them would look at the lines they are using such as in waterways when they block access to others who are trying to sail past their land.

I find ban lines to be very anti-social. In a world where we should be embracing people, we instead choose to shut them out and proclaim "I have no interest in getting to know you". Of course land owners have the right to place ban lines. But that will never stop me from not liking them (the ban lines that is).

Which situations would banning them be good? Stick to land people let you fly over and don't tryto intrude on other's space. Simple enough.

As far as antisocial.. perhaps the land is for a specific group only, or their own works. There ar emany intepretations to SL.

I still don't get why people are so 'protective' over a bit of digital space.

Unlike reality, people can't just "walk into your house" and steal your stuff (unless you set it for buy for L$0 and sell original rather than copy or contents).

I really think it is quite pathetic that people are so damn territorial in what is supposed to be a social environment.

Yes, you pay for the use of land, but you don't really "own" it, you're only renting server space from Linden Lab.

Broccoli

Ban lines are an eyesore and I believe bring down the property value of those around them without the lines. A lot of people say that the red lines are ugly and diminish the view; I would have to agree. Paying land customers should be awarded protection and privacy. Why can't the ban lines be invisible? A blue dialog box appears telling me if I have entered space in the grid that is restricted to an access list or is a parcel that I am banned from. Why don't they add something in the view tab that says "view ban lines" when it is necessary to see them. LL should also try to ease the problem of sim crossing and ban line/avatar collisions.

I agree with the visual problem. I also go as far as saying thatthere should be a viewer option - visibility of ban lines from 0-100 percent, in 2 categories so you can see no ban lines when on your land, or on land that a group you belong to owns;and another when travelling so you can avoid ban lines, or turn it off visible so that you can see clearly.

Ban lines are far from being grief tools. They exist so others won't trespass unto private properties.

If in your "explorations of sl" you've continued to encounter ban lines then you must be trying to enter areas you have no business going to. Explorations don't give you or anyone else the right to enter private areas and this in itself is a real problem in sl. You have people trying to enter private properties, trying to enter other peoples homes and this happens all the time. Then they complain when they're ejected or when they run into ban lines. It's really unbelievable.

If it wasn't for ban lines or other means of keeping intruders out your lands and homes, then and only then would it be called griefing.

I'm glad they exist and will continue to with common sense around.

The problem is now they'll bitch about these devices too. They want to be able to come into your place whenever they feel like it. Into your homes, use your pose balls, laid down on your beds and just make themselves at home.

Oh, and damn if they can't or aren't allowed to do this. Then all of a sudden, you're rude, you're not being social or friendly if you don't allow intruders-cause this is what they are- into your property.

Imagine that?

Actually the problem with this is that 5 seconds isn't enough time... by the time you've got the warning, got rid of the annoying blue box and tried to work out which direction gets you off the property quickest you're poofed back to your home or orbited or something equally silly... even worse than ban lines (discuss).

Had a property right next to some of mine that gave 10 seconds.. that was just about enough time but still bloody annoying....

20 seconds and I reckon you're ok... not enough time to snoop.. enough time to get off the property?

BRAVO!!!!!!!!

Excellent response but unfortunately, some here still feel the need to intrude where they're not wanted.

You're right. But I really doubt it's just 5 seconds. But in the event it is then it's the landowners prerogative to do so and he's in his right to do so.

I agree with the OP and have written about this issue before and also posted about it in Jira.

I don't like the red 'no entry' lines, or banlines, if you wish to call them that. They're not only a problem when you fly but they also look terrible in the landscape. If you happen to own a nice piece of mainland and then get new neighbours who all decide to limit access to their land and set their banlines, you're suddenly surrounded by these ugly red lines wherever you turn on your land and you can't get rid of them in any other way than walling yourself in as they're also visible through windows. Try now to make you land plot look pretty and try to sell it! Lmao, it's a joke as it's hardly impossible to sell and the land value drops down to the lowest level.

The best solution for this, in my opinion, is for LL to create a built-in security system, that you can set and control from the About Land menu. It should be a system that doesn't involve any lines but a time limit instead. If this system can't be set to kick off any intruder until after 1 minute or so (maybe 2 mins, it can be discussed), you have time enough to leave, walk or fly through the land parcel without hitting anything at all and the land owner still doesn't have to worry about unwanted people on the land. If you stay longer than the time limit you'll be kicked off the land. The landscape will look better without red lines too so it's all good! Do away with the banlines! We're not prisoners, are we? It sure feels that way sometimes when you see all these lines surrounding you. A compromise between the land owner's want to limit access and the explorer's want to fly or drive a vehicle without hitting banlines is very necessary and we just gotta find a way of solving that. SL is a wonderful free world, that we all like, otherwise we wouldn't choose to be here at all, but we have to be openminded enough to discuss improvements and ways to make it even more wonderful and even more free, easy to explore and live in. Remember, it's still in it's early stages.

You seem to be missing the point entirely.

i disagree with people wandering around other's houses, helping themselves to sexbeds and poseballs ... but this is, by no means, the same as someone innocently flying a plane 100m above a property.

The attitude of some people here and their sense of 'entitlement' over what is just a bit of digital space frankly makes me sick.

Broccoli

Banlines render vehicles useless. If you walk into a banline you just get pushed away, but if you drive a vehicle into it, it gets stuck or can even crash or orbit you. Well scripted vehicles can just be moved away and restarted, but it's still not nice to get caught in a feared red spiderweb you see only when it is 2 inches away. It's not just about planes but also boats and jetskis.

There is no need to ban banlines (I understand the rights of land owners to do whatever they want with their land), just make the lines visible on the map so you can maneuver around them!

Full parcels and banned object entry also make the use of a vehicle pointless. I think SL should become more vehicle friendly in general...

dont ban lines only go around 50m into the air?

Visually, ban lines are up there with ad farms.

If a neighbouring plot has ban lines then if you go within 7 metres of your own boundary *inside your own land*, then the red lines start to loom.
You might have absolutely no intention of crossing the boundary, but those ugly red ban lines essentially intrude about 7 metres into *your* land.
The *only* way to hide them is to build a solid non-alpha screen/wall.
Ban lines are actually worse than ad farms. They come at you. Unlike ad farms, they actually encroach on your land.
Those red lines really scream at your cortex.


It is possible (but not always probable) that you could convince your neighbour to put you, your partner, your best friends,.. on their parcel access list or in their land group so that you and your regular visitors won't see the lines.


It is true that a neighbour could erect a wall on the boundary of their land with the same red lines as texture.
The difference is that such lines would be a fixed feature and would not glow and fade with distance. Such lines could be effectively masked by an alpha textures wall on your side.
However, without a *solid* wall, any visitor to your land is going to get those ugly red lanes stuck in their face.



If people want to keep me out of their land, then I wouln't have a problem with a system that
1) treats the invisible boundary like a solid physical wall for collision purposes of avatars not permitted into the parcel.
2) gave an option in View for people to see an indication of the barrier from a selectable distance.


As for security orbs, anything that does other than warn you and eventually push you off the parcel is griefing and should be ARed.
TP home is only a step away from orbiting. It's pure dumb redneck behaviour.

Yup.
I had land in a sim where I and others had open parkland and/or open builds. In the middle was a 512 plot that had ban lines. The guy had everything in a box at 600 metres above. The ground was bare.
I did sent him a very polite IM, explaining that the ban only extended a little up from the ground. From his profile, he was obviously an English speaker.
Answer or action came there none

Me and my broomstick just hit banlines that go up to 100 metres??? Could fly over them at 105 though. And no I wasn't trying to access anything, just exploring

ETA: just realised ground level here is actually 50m, so i guess that explains it I guess.

ETA2: Just checked this is several locations, it seems banlines go up 50m from ground level, which meant I hit them at 200m as well. Interesting experiment

Ban lines are a pet hate of mine and the reason I would only have a home on an island where they aren't allowed. My shop is on mainland but has enough land to take ban lines on the edges luckily. When looking for land to buy on the mainland, it's so common to find land for sale that is boxed in by them, who would buy land like that? It must push the value way down.

Just because people wish to fly around and explore, doesn't mean they want to actually land and go into others houses etc, I think it's mainly new people who haven't learnt the concept of land ownership that enter places uninvited. If you have a problem with that due to your location, why not just limit the lines to no payment on file or something? If you want privacy to use poseballs, why not use a skybox with security orb? It doesn't matter what 'security' you use, people can still pan their cameras and are probably more likely to wonder what is being protected and take a look than if they had been able to just fly through.

How do you meet your neighbours if they can't pop along and say hello? I know if I had neighbours with ban lines, I wouldn't bother trying to talk to them through that. Just all seems so anti social to me. I have never used ban lines or security orbs and have had few problems. Those that do pop in I talk to and are usually pretty nice.

For the benefit of anyone who hasn't thought this thing past 'property rights':

Someone buys a 512 starter plot.
They put down a house.
The house walls are made with a texture that has alpha in it to make the windows.
A neighbour has ban lines.
Those ban lines will shine right through the walls of the house if the wall is within about 7 metres from the boundary of the plot. They really shine at night, but daytime is still very much in your face.


Solution?
For a 512 plot, limit the house dimensions to 2 metres by 18metres and be sure to position it centrally in the plot. Stay inside the house. OK, it's a only a 36 sq.metres footprint but you can add lots of floors to increase the actual floorspace.
Do not go outside and use the 476 sq.metres of 'garden'.

Or stay in a skybox and do not have a house or garden on the ground.


Now THAT'S what I call griefing!!

"I suppose if the people who put up these ban lines had to see 'em"

Oh YESSSSSSSSS!!!

If they MUST stay, then the 'back' should be as equally ugly as is the front.
Do it, do it, do it LL!!!

As you would that others would do to you, ............

I suggested this a couple of pages back, that landowners should see their own ban lines.

I'm quite sure a lot of ban lines are simply people forgetting they have them on.

Broccoli

Okies, and agreed about the unknowing.
Maelstrom's post was the one I noticed saying it and I quoted him. If you said it first, or someone else said it years ago somewhere else, I'm happy.


LL should blog this not as a negative for ban line users, but as a *fantastic new feature that enhances the ban line user's SL experience*

Are you stressed?
Do you fret about your ban lines??
Are the *really* there??
How do you know???
Maybe they were there yesterday, but are they there *now* ??????

Fear not!
From now on, you'll be able to sit on your land and feel secure with NEW ENHANCED VISUAL CONFIRMATION!!! of your ban lines.

Id like for LL to break all Ban lines for a week.

Then we could see how bad it gets or doesn't.

If the intrusions almost never happened and the grid was peaceful - then the Pro ban line people could hush up and LL can get rid of them.

If it is pure chaos and a griefer love in - then the Anti-ban line people could shut up about ban lines being a problem.