Ban Ban Lines - the ultimate legalised griefing weapon

My banlines are down, because of home security systems.

right, because those people do not exist.

I hardly think a couple of clicks to have the right group set is really justification for not setting autoreturn, or not being bothered to check before you start building. Sorry.

Broccoli

Your opinion. Others may feel different.

Certainly I've never been affected by any of these groups. Maybe people getting grief are more doing so because they're encouraging people by their actions or attitudes?

When I come across ban lines I can't help but wonder what is so important that needs to be hidden from people. I'll just fly another way ... but many are more inquisitive.

Broccoli

Actually it would be quite nice if your group tag would automatically change to the group of whatever group land you belong to when you teleport there.

I think if such a thing were a probability where I live, I might be tempted to arm myself and join with neighbours as a last resort.
It's not really probable here.
How do rate the probability where you live Chris?

Your country sounds very dangerous for its citizens. I feel concern for you and your fellow citizens.
Maybe you should petition the USA to invade your country and free you from this tyranny.

There is a vast gulf of difference between challenging someone's feelings, and asking them to explain a decision or action.


Hmm, 'foaming-at-the-mouth' and 'rants'. This is how you describe, discount and dismiss some of the answers already offered.

Anyhow, that's all I have to say, I'm off topic anyhow. Like I said, it's a pet peeve of mine. Logic will never beat Emotion in an argument, Emotion is usually too emotional to step back and point this out, and Logic frequently exacerbates the issue by trying to pick on Emotion at an emotional level, and everybody gets hurt.

NO ENTRY NO ENTRY NO ENTRY NO ENTRY NO ENTRY NO ENTRY NO ENTRY NO ENTRY

-Atashi

Sling, it can happen anywhere, at any time, well except for those places where the citizens are armed.

All governments are dangerous for their citizens. I will heed the wisdom of the Founding Fathers.

Thats what they thought in

Iran (in the 1970s)
Germany (in the 1930's)
Spain (in the 1930's)
Italy (in the 1920's)
Russia (in the 1910's)
France (in the 1780's)
England (in the 1640's)

They were that paranoid too?

Broccoli

Nope, they were realists and students of history.

If they hadn't sent a bunch of smallpox-infected blankets over to the Native Indians as a 'peace offering' they'd probably have all been wiped out actually.

Broccoli

I think it was your government behind that episode.

What does this have to do with oppression by the government?

That would be oppression by an invading force that isn't your government, and some lame excuse to justify germ warfare.

Not my government, I wasn't around in 1763.

Broccoli

First off, I think describing them as "foaming-at-the-mouth... rants" is a little unfair. I haven't seen any that I'd describe as that.
Secondly, "It's mine and I pay for it" is a perfectly valid justification for banlines.
Far better than "You should do it because I think you should".
Far better than "I don't care if you spend money on it, I should be allowed to use your stuff".

The difference in arguments is that the "I pay for it" people aren't doing anything wrong or imposing their view on anyone else, they're just playing the game within the rules. The "You have to be social because I say you should" people are trying to impose their view on others and change the rules.
The question of "Why ban lines?" is answered easily with "Because I can and I'm allowed to."
The question that really needs to be answered is "Why NOT ban lines?", which is not as easily answered without getting into "Should" arguments.
A service is paid for. What the anti-banline folks are demanding is for part of that service to be taken away. That's not fair.



Personally, I find the "I don't care that there are empty sims all over the place, but I don't care, I should be allowed to use your stuff" folks to be far more militant about their arguments... and no-one's really provided justification for the removal of banlines, other than "I want to be able to fly under 50m" or "I should be allowed to do whatever I want, even to the detriment of others".

Can you give any justification that doesn't involve "Should" or your opinion?
'Cuz the "right" to use banlines isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

Frankly, I am disassociating myself with these viewpoints. Yes we DO have culture in England. This is not showcased in petty sniping, such as this thread is exhibiting.

Bigotry knows no boundaries. Or limits around here. I was originally disagreeing JUST with Broccoli's viewpoint ...

Yeah actually the lot of you. Knock it off. All this having a pop at each other is simply ugly.

There's a whole bunch of different people complaining about "ban lines" (without even understanding what that means).

* Explorers: want to roam across the grid looking for new places to discover. When they run into an access restriction/ban line/security orb they feel outraged at being denied the right to explore the parcel right in front of them. In reality these are the squatters and the snoopers or they'd simply "explore" in a different direction.

* People who use standard SL flying to get around: suffer from an irrational fear of point-to-point teleporting? Can't really complain about access restriction at all since all they have to do is fly up 50-60m and press the forward arrow. SL will make sure they maintain the proper offset.

* Vehicle users: blame "ban lines" for everything from ruining their fun to eating that last cookie they were oggling. In reality they have to deal with:
- access restrictions (up until 50m AGL)
- security orbs (up to 96m around the orb and can be placed at any height)
- "Object Entry" turned off (affects all height, can't enter)
- "Sim is full"
- "Parcel is full"
- Sim crossings

All in all, banlines are about the least annoying thing they have to deal with so aim your anger towards the other problems before tackling access restrictions.

Pet-peeves:
- pesky landowners don't allow build to rez their vehicle
- stubbornly don't want to restrict themselves to the dozens upon dozens of LL-owned sims
- don't want people building in the sky above the clouds (gets in the way of planes)
- don't want people building in the sky under the clouds (gets in the way of balloons)
- don't want people building on the land (gets in the way of cars)
- people build on water (gets in the way of boats)

If all those pet-peeves were met, land-owners wouldn't be allowed to build on their land at all.

---

Getting rid of access restrictions isn't going to make vehicles any more fun, there's far too many other problems to deal with already.

For people who fly, again, the current situation is a fair comprise. Your fingers won't fall off from pressing that page-up two seconds longer to reach the proper altitude.

Explorers can either explore places where they are obviously welcome, or they simply fall into the category of griefer and access restrictions are keeping them out so all is well.

Neighbouring land-owners could actually try and talk to their neighbours and try and figure out whether the access restrictions are up for a good reason (which are as valid as your reasons for not wanting them) or if they simply forgot. They can invite you into the land-owning group or put you on the list and you won't have to deal with them anymore.
If they're stubborn and refuse, that's their right. They may not particurlarly enjoy seeing your house outside of their window either, yet you wouldn't take it down for such a frivolous reason either.

All in all I don't see any category of people who actually have a reason to be upset with the current situation and we're all just griping about other things or - the majority - blaming "access restriction" for things that are caused by something else entirely.

"suffer from an irrational fear of point-to-point teleporting? "

You might have one too if you crashed on 9 out of 10 teleports.

Broccoli

Well you have conviced me Maelstrom, when I get online I will be sure to add your name to my ban list... I don't use general banlines, just name specific ones.. But with your attitude I will be happy to make sure you cannot fly over my land anymore..
Have a nice day..

That should obviously not be taken seriously . Not much in that post should actually, other than the basic points .

The actual point was that if you're not in a vehicle you can fly around free at 50m+, the only thing you're likely to get bothered by are security orbs.

If you're crashing while tp'ing then that's a problem , but the solution won't be to get rid of the access restriction option.

Yes, though it took long a bit longer than usual, the pissing has begun. I'm in no position to be pointing fingers on any posting habits here, but it saddens me that this happens time after time.

this thread has become too unhappy..

I think someone needs to give it pie... but.. alas... My oven is broken.

The pissing in this thread started with the first post.