Ban Ban Lines - the ultimate legalised griefing weapon

Oh are you turning your land over to me? If not, no thanks. If so, I will be putting up ban lines post haste.

Yes. In SL the signs just keep you out. In RL, passing them gets you arrested (or shot in some places). Same results, different methods.

~Jessy

Personally, I want to go out and investigate and explore, then come home to a quiet space where I can hang with my friends, try on my new outfits (because you know I bought SOMETHING while I was out), or maybe just rearrange my inventory in peace. Terrible of me, I know.

Yes, when I'm on my land, in my virtual world, living out my fantasy, I'm entitled to have it my way, and my way sometimes does not include having you traipsing through my property, interupting me. Why should I have to take the time to interrupt what I'm doing to eject and ban you. Putting up ban lines gives me the assurance that I can ignore you and not be interrupted by your intrusion into the space that I pay for.

I think banlines are good. Do you want privacy? Put them up. They're quite useful... WHEN YOU ARE ACTUALLY THERE.


When I bother to fly/walk/ride through a sim I find the sim empty and DEVOID of life for maybe 99% of the time. The ban lines are still up there.... protecting phantoms. Seriously, I have possibly hit about 2 banlines where there was actually someone inside the property. 2 times.... in an entire year.

I'm not railing against banline owners at all here. Please leave them up to protected yourself. I'm not even asking that you take them down when you leave. The solution has to be on Linden Lab's end to make banlines work when the people authorized to be there are actually there.

There's no need to protect the land when no one's there. Out of sight, out if mind. If you're worried someone will leave stuff in your yard we also need a way to turn off rezzing and scripting on your property when you're not online.

The pot calling the kettle black!

Arrested ? shot ?

Have you never took a walk in the country yard over someone else *private* land on a sunday afternoon ?... and that hopefully without being shot at.

I agree, I only turn mine on when I want privacy, otherwise they are off.

Maelstrom, I hate to tell you this but I detest banlines as much as you do. Your arguments, however, and others responses have convinced me that they should not be banned.

If you want an open Sim, go find an estate that bans banlines. There are a huge number of them that do.

In the future I think it'd be a great idea for LL to consider opening a new continent where no banlines are allowed and open airways and waters are encouraged. Then people buying there would know what they are getting into. To go back and take banlines away from those that have already bought into them is not only wrong, it would cause bigger outrage than casinos and VAT combined.

As for me. I keep my land open. I even have a LM on my profile encouraging others to come chill if they'd like. That's my choice however. It's not for me to impose that on others.

Sounds like a good way to have the dogs sicced on you.

Wow...no. Absolutely not. And around here getting shot isn't even a question. Arrest is highly unlikely. Really, the worst one would expect around here would be a good shouting-at. It's just the way I was raised. You don't go into or on someone's private property, unless you're invited. It's just not done. If they have a fence up -- well that's what the fence is for -- they don't need a 'no trespassing' sign, that's what the fence itself represents.

However, this is the great thing with SL -- it's a place where all different cultures can meet and learn and (hopefully) coexist.

For what it's worth, I've never put up general banlines, they aren't allowed on the estate that I call home, and I've got almost a full sim-worth of land set up for public access and use. I still believe that it's the right of every individual landowner to decide for themselves, what they want done on their land. And if that means some land is off limits due to banlines or security orbs, then so be it.

-Atashi

I've had this discussion with noobs who have walked into my SL home uninvited. A couple of times it has turned into very interesting conversations where they were legitimately surprised by the concept of privacy and ownership in SL. They saw it as just as a game and couldn't image that they were really intruding.

I think they were the type that probably didn't end up staying long but it did give me the understanding that many just don't see it as the same thing.

I believe the banlines WERE once much more visible, and they were toned down because people complained about the looks. I remember suddenly seeing them much more toned down, too.

Maybe someone else who remembers that can confirm it for me.

Just because things are the way they are now doesn't mean this is the only "right" way, and the only people with "rights" are the ones who like it the way it is.

We already know it is the way it is right now; that is not the point of contention.

And banlines are definitely a problem, in terms of moving around (as well as visual aesthetics). I'll give you an example from the other day: I was shopping in a store, and flew out of it for a bit to look at a nearby build.

When I tried to get back, I kept bumping into ban lines! I had to turn on property lines and try to figure out what the heck configuration all these various properties were in such that I could somehow have gotten enmeshed in banlines and not be able to get back to the store (which I could see; it wasn't even that far away.)

That didn't help, and I had to sort of turn by degrees and bump until I managed to find the path back to the store.

Where there are no roads and no easements, banlines can create a mess.

One compromise would be to have the banlines turn off if the landowner isn't there. The occasional individual who doesn't want people looking at his stuff is far outweighed by the impediments caused by the numbers of properties that stand empty most of the time, yet with banlines remaining on.

(Which was true the other night when I couldn't get back to the store.)

Perhaps individuals who are worried about their items being seen or used could be inconvenienced by having to take up any such objects before they leave, rather than have everyone else inconvenienced by a mish-mash of banlines everywhere with no one even on the property.

In any case, it is a definite problem, and telling the OP he is a "troll" and the thread should be locked because he sees it differently from you is kind of . . . unreasonable, I think.

coco

The voice of reason ..at last. I go along with Bradley on this (at least). You can't ban banlines and making them more visible would just make sims look even worse. Sims with no banlines is a great idea, as long as people know they can't use banlines. I keep my land open, but that's my choice. I hate banlines, but I'll defend to the death (well to having a toenail removed - under anaesthetic) someone's right to use banlines if they so wish. Well, I'll look - or fly - the other way.

/me circles date on calendar

That is correct, and it was an even bigger problem because they could even be visible thru a wall placed in front of a property where ban lines were up. So someone with a small piece of land could not even keep the vision of them out of thier house.

The sense of entitlement is amazing.

If "banlines" would be turned off when the landowner isn't there, most would just switch to a scripted security orb instead. Or switch to "Sell Pass" which is essentially the same thing.

As far as vehicles are concerned, restricting "Object Entry" will halt those as well, yet noone seems to ever complain about that option so I see don't why vehicles would be an argument against "banlines".

If you want free passage over anyone's land fly up 55m and you're set. If you're flying above the slope of a mountain SL will automatically adjust your height to keep you at the same offset from the land at all times so you don't even have to keep track of that.

LOL yes! It is amazing the number of freebie accounts that think all of SL should be wide open for them to explore in thier freebie airplanes, and of course to abandon them and half thier inventory anyplace they like.

Isablan! We need your pot and kettle again!

My approach to exploring is this: if the windows are not tinted, I'll cam around. If the door is unlocked, I may enter. I enjoy looking at people's homes and furniture. If the windows are tinted, I don't cam inside. I take the hint. If the door is locked... move on. This isn't community property, and while it is good for SL to have open spaces to explore, it's all paid for by someone... so give respect where it is due. It's not that big a deal.

Fin.

Mine wouldn't have to be sicced, they would sic themselves on someone who came into THEIR yard.

They challenge everyone who even stands on the other side of the fence in the neighbor's yards.

Sounds delightful. Glad I don't live next door to you. And before you say it, I'm quite sure the reverse is also true.

How about having ban lines show up on the mini map?

Ah the irony of Linden Lab policy. You don't own anything, except for when they feel like telling you that you do except even then you still don't own it.

There is a lot of talk about "rights" in this thread except all "rights" even RL rights are convenient, mutually agreed fictions. In RL we have generally agreed that you can "own" land and have the "right" to exclude trespassers. In practice, excluding RL trespassers takes far more than a sign and in many places you aren't even permitted to use force to exclude trespassers.

Linden Lab built property "rights" into the physics of their world. This is a little bit odd in that SL is less permissive than the real world is. Put another way, LL has granted you the ability to put 15 story walls around your property and shoot trespassers on sight - not even South Africa allows you that much liberty and we would certainly find it repugnant in the US.

As people have noted above, if you want actual privacy in SL, you must get a private island, or rent the exclusive use of one. LL should remove banlines if for no other reason than it would drive demand for private islands.