So why are kids on Zindra?

When you say they can't enter Zindra, even if there's no sexual content anywhere within the parcel... that sure sounds like a restriction to me.

The intent of the person filing an AR is generally not to curtail another's freedom but to express that they are personally offended by another's action.

They can always change toons. The player is not being restricted at all.

by even suggesting that they "change toons", you are restricting them.

That's a waste of an AR, LL resources and a nasty selfish risk to take on behalf of who is ARed.

AR's get people banned.

And since when is not being offended something we should strive for?

Those depictions are not illegal. Such depictions within SL are violations of LL's community standards.

Adult rated regions are not automatically sexualized situations, so there is no need for a blanket ban of child avatars from them.

The issue is already covered by current policy.

LOL. Ian, that is hardly answering my question. Why would someone as concerned as you about freedom of expression try to muzzle me (if that is not too loaded a term, in the context of a discussion of BDSM)? Surely your approach demands that all opinions be permitted free expression? Including ones that you don't like?

As for my "threatening people's freedom," I should point out, as I think you know, that my objections were not to the poses themselves, but to the fact that they were identified as a simulation of rape. And, that I have never suggested that such poses be banned; merely that they not be performed in public spaces. Actually, my argument here is rather like that which I am making with regard to kiddie avs on Zindra: people DO and SHOULD have freedom, but they need to exercise it responsibly.

I don't agree. There are many rules in SL that one could feel are restricting but they are simply the community standards.



I didnt make any claim pertaining to what people should strive for.




They are illegal. It's called child porn.

As for the issue already being covered by current policy, well, policies change.

then thank god ll does not base it's TOS/CS on what offends you.




by starting this tempest in a teapot thread, you did




none of which applies to the open house at zindra



yes after reading this thread(at participating in it.to my shame) i'm all for banning any form of "adult content".

You always say you didn't do it.

I haven't tried to muzzle you, it's me not chucking around the AR's, it's you, though I'd not be sad if copped one.

ARing sexual pose balls is NOT letting people choose for themselves, you ARE trying to ban when you AR.

Do you believe it is your responsibility to see that people have sex on the right pose balls or something?

I mean really how is any of this your business anyway.... You don't seem to like it when someone wants your "thing in SL" banned do you.

Child pornography is illegal, the depiction of minors in sexualized situations is not the same thing.

Examples of such depictions from literature and film were given earlier in this thread.

You're obviously not an immersionist.

I can't go to most Gorean sims, because Argent isn't human. So I don't go to Gorean sims, I don't put on an "Edgar Suit" and pretend to be human for the duration.

The policy doesn't need to change. It already bans kid toons for every part of Zindra (or any other continent) containing sexual content or activities. Banning from those parts of Zindra that do not contain sexual content or activities is redundant.

I don't see any adult content in this thread.

I don't even see much mature content.

You did, but if it makes you feel better about yourself, you can say you didn't.

true, so very true.

"My thing," as you put it, is not a hateful and violent depiction of a brutal attack on someone because of their race, gender, or creed. A rape simulation, at least when it is so identified, is. And, yes, I would feel the same about a rape simulation that victimized the male. Nor am I attacking a particular sexuality: I'm asking that it not be exercised in public.

I think we differ on our definitions of "ban." I am not trying to "ban" anything that hasn't already been prohibited by SL policy. I am merely trying to get LL to enforce its own stated policies. That's what ARs are for.

And, again, let me remind you, I have no interest whatsoever on what poseballs people sit on behind closed doors or in skyboxes. Again, it's about responsible behaviour, about being considerate of the feelings and sensitivities of others. There are in RL a great many things you or I can do in public that we don't indulge, not because we don't have the "right" to do so, but because it would be inconsiderate and uncivil.

How do you feel about BDSM?

I don't like it, and I wish people didn't do it. That does NOT mean that I would ban it. I don't attack things merely because I disapprove or find them distasteful.

That said, my response to BDSM would depend rather on what particular activities it involved. There are many different flavours of BDSM, and they range from the mildly submissive, to the violent. I don't like any of it, personally, but my only objections to (PUBLIC) depictions have always been to violence. And the reason I don't like depictions of violence is because violence is always implicitly about silencing someone.

And, just to reiterate something I've said many times before, I am not criticizing BDSM because I don't think it is consensual (although, I do think "consent" is more problematic than people tend to acknowledge). My critique is about the DEPICTION of the act, not what may or may not be happening between the two people directly involved.

Wrong. Here are some real world examples of depictions of underage sexuality available in U.S. retail stores right now:

Yubisaki Milk Tea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yubisaki_Milk_Tea Revolves almost completely around teen characters, one in particular still in jrHigh. All are dealing with a lot of sexual tension, get themselves quite involved. The Manga is rife with nude scenes. To top it off, the jrHigh girl dreams of growing larger breasts (usually graphically depicted) in order to replace her mother and please her father. ... I'm up to Volume7 so far. (^_^)

Chobits: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobits One of the main characters, Chii, is described as depicting a 16 year old girl... Is infrequently nude... And is depicted at imitating poses as seen in porn videos and magazines. Eventually, she gets tricked into modelling for a live webcam strip feed and only quit when masturbation was suggested. ... I have the DVD set, Manga both from U.S. and Japan, wall scrolls, figures, posters... Ah, stuff it all... It's my favorite series. =^-^=

Saikano: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saikano Teens again... Still in school. Since they're facing the end of the world, they tend to have no problem having sex here and there, both orally and.. well.. you know. Great story though... Many scenes brought me to tears and the ending left me in a funk for weeks. (>_<

Pretty Baby: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Baby_(film) Violet, pretty much the main character of the story, is a 12 year old growing up in a 1917 brothel. She’s pretty much involved in all the operations of the house and is in scenes involving sex, loading an opium pipe, and gets her virginity auctioned off for her 13th birthday. Mind you, here character was portrayed by the then 12 year old Brooke Shields. (^_^)

Lolita: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita .... Heh... ‘nuff said. (^_^)

So, when referencing local policy in Linden Lab's Second Life. Realize that it is not indicative of any actual legal issues in the U.S. Otherwise, Barnes&Noble, Waldenbooks, and Amazon.com is surely due for state and federal prosecution for distributing the books and movies I've mentioned above. (^_^)y

It almost makes me wonder how many ignore lists I'm on. (^_^)y

Thanks f'r finding this Qie. This was what I was looking for yesterday. Anyone know if this is in the process of changing in any way?

Feh, some people are probably ignoring you out of some insane need to ignore facts.

I know you often say this.

Above you link violence and bdsm and query consent... That's heading towards calling it rape, it's not. Yet you say it's ok, yet you AR'ed a pose ball called forced doggie or some such name, your actions aren't not as innocent as you make it out to sound.

Public sex hadn't been a ToS problem of mature until adult came about. violence isn't always about what you believe it to be, you can't know for others, well not all of them.

People, well me, have gotten what you are saying, don't worry.


Anyway, I am off for a chai tea.