So why are kids on Zindra?

You know perfectly well that's not going to happen unless you and P- N- and others get some kid toons and set up the playground yourself. This is more "making stuff up".

This thread has become the flaming bag of dogshit on the front porch, hasn't it?

Because they're allowed to enter mature sims, and there's going to be the same content in mature sims too, it just has to be out of public sight and not advertised or publicly promoted.

This is more of your word games. There are and will not be "adult content sims". They are "adult sims". That means "adult content" may be publicly advertised and displayed, that doesn't mean the sims themselves are "adult content".

Because they're allowed to enter mature sims, and there's going to be the same content in mature sims too, it just has to be out of public sight and not advertised or publicly promoted.

This is more of your word games. There are and will not be "adult content sims". They are "adult sims". That means "adult content" may be publicly advertised and displayed, that doesn't mean the sims themselves are "adult content".
No, we're over 70 pages in a debate because of you. Just like the last time, because you freaked out over the mental image of a naked kid in a nudist colony, and started attacking RL nudists.

Yerp.

(Adult) sim... (PG) parcel guidelines... How hard is THIS to understand? (=_=)

Heck... The WORD "Adult" is used in one of the guidelines. (The one about sounds for those of us who are blinded by agenda). (^_^)y

Actually, those are even more restrictive than (Linden) PG.

True. Buying, selling, and recruiting CAN be done on private PG parcels. But, to some, that means you can do it everywhere, right? (O.o)

</cheeky> =^-^=

Hang on!!! Let's revisit this...



"No XXX" too. (^_^)

"No nudity" << Hmmm... Someone speak of naked dance parties? (^_^)

Really... The LL Gteam is not policing the grid per-se. They're responding to ARs. Wanna have some fun? Next time a nakie dance party spawns in a hub, merge it with an AR party and see who lasts. (^_^)

Oh, how deliciously petty. =^-^=

this does not include LL lands because those are rated the same all over the grid..


Adult continent means this..
it means everywhere you look on an adult continent there will be land for sale that has the ability to be Adult rated and hold adult content..

it has the highest range for ratings from pg all the way up to adult

it does not mean Adult continent is adult rated..
the land does not set the rating the content and activities set the rating.

just as a mature continent would max out at mature ability to rate land

and pg maxing out at pg on it's continent..


it can't be explained any simpler than this i don't think..

I was arguing for a PG continent when it became clear LL was going to have Adult segregation.

Sigh...i wasn't going to be drawn back into this thread!

Actually there are several different things going on with Craigslist.

In South Carolina, the attorney general has been blocked by a federal judge from prosecuting Craigslist, as a result of a suit filed by Craigslist. I think this is the case you mean. I wouldn't read too much into the federal order, as it may just be a temporary procedural matter. At the same time, Craigslist has agreed to make changes to their service. See http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202430952322 for one report.

On the other hand, the Cook County (IL) prosecutors have filed suit against Craigslist. I don't know if the case is proceeding or has been removed because of the changes that Craigslist has made. See http://news.uk.msn.com/world/newsweek/article.aspx?cp-documentid=16839856.

This is only indirectly relevant here. It shows that a company can make its way through far worse circumstances.

That's like saying there's no reason to endorse Las Vegas as a place to go for adult entertainment and as a place to bring the kids.

A continent is a large area. Just because it makes sense to have a given policy for individual parcels doesn't mean it makes sense to have that same policy for the entire continent.

Kidd steals his Master's gold to buy a parcel on Zindra, which he declares a no-slavery, gay orgy zone. He plasters the walls with copies of the Thirteenth Amendment and the Lawrence v. Texas decision, while burning copies of the Dred Scott decision in the celebratory bonfire.

(I hope the above satire has the appropriate humorous tone, without offending anyone concerned with the very real issues of slavery in the real world.)

Seriously, it's perfectly reasonable to open an adult club in Zindra that bans anything related to slavery, including the wearing of collars. It's reasonable to open a store that bans nudity. Zindra doesn't mean you're allowed to do anything adult anywhere you want.

I find it mildly amusing now to reflect, Clarissa, that when you suggested that my language had been intemperate earlier in this thread, I felt chastened, and hurried to clarify my intent. I value civil and rational discourse highly, and I am embarrassed when I myself am caught sinking to mere sarcasm or worse. I have also come to value the opinions of others in these threads whose perspectives are often diametrically opposed to my own, but who are willing to accord me the respect of reading what I have to say, and engaging with IT, rather than stooping to ad hominem attacks and smears.

When I confronted Ian with the suggestion that he had misrepresented me, he at least had the grace to provide a grudging clarification and correction (even if he still apparently believes that I should face an LL firing squad inworld for my views).

How instructively different has your response been. You fabricate a "concerted effort by one group," by postulating an utterly unlikely and unbelievable alliance between myself and Lias, despite the fact (as Spinster has noted) that we are very clearly NOT on the same side of this issue. In fact, I'm not sure that I am conscious of ever having directly agreed with or supported Lias in any other threads, includling the "zomg poseballs" thread, to which I don't think I even contributed. The respect I have shown for Lias's views here is neither more nor less than I demonstrated to those on the other side of the question who have not chosen to rely upon merely personal attacks.

How ironic that the "damning" quote by me that Lias carries in her forum profile (which, by the way, came as a complete surprise to me) should concern, not BDSM or child avs, but the sadly frequent failure of this forum to maintain a level of reasonable and civilized discourse.

An argument in favour of freedom of expression is rather ill-served by tactics of misrepresentation and ad hominem attack, don't you think?

Ok these messages piss me off.
Its for the PG whiners that LL had to create Zindra in the first place!

Secondly, there are NO kids on Zaindra, just AVATARS bloody PIXELS controlled by an ADULT behind a stupid computer screen, got it? yes...? Great!

Then, SL is a place for EVERBODY, in SL you can be something you cannot be in RL.
Furry, neko, wolf, angel, demon, cartoon, dementor, kid, adult, grandpa etc etc etc.
So don't restrict VERIFIED members. (they ARE verified because they CAN enter zindra.)

Last but not least.
NOT everybody that visits Zindra is into kids Angel Leviathan.
If you assume that you really have a wrong idea about what people want and do in SecondLife.


Just wanted to make that very clear, to all of the people that are against child AVATARS.

Ok?

This post is specifically for Lias, although i expect it to be ignored and remain unanswered!

I'll start this post backwards and begin with my conclusion (my opinion and not fact) : Its' my feeling that once Zindra goes live, things will work itself out naturally and you should not expect the invasion of little kiddies. SL kids take their RP very seriously and are careful not to thread on anyone's toes....it's been like that on Mainland Mature sims for a long time now. There are websites specially for the SL kids community which provide clear guidelines of what is expected when you decide to RP a kid. There's a list of Do's and Don'ts. It's very clear.

The grey area or the potential hazard for Zindra are those violent Combat land/sims which SL kids might like to participate in....here one could expect to see some Kiddies TP'ing in. Then again my assumption might be exaggerated as i'm sure there will be lots of adult rated Estate sims with violent combat and without any XXX neon lights close by. This most likely would be a better option for SL kids in terms of visitation.

Regarding what sort of content are allowed...in simplistic terms are the following :

PG rated Land/ Sims : Only PG related content
Mature rated Land/ Sims : Mature rated content + PG content
Adult rated Land/ Sims : Adult rated content + Mature content + PG content

That's how Zindra will look, unless LL makes special amendments to CS regarding types of visitors (avie form) and content allowed for Adult ratings. I don't think LL will, as it opens a can of worms, as it would need to be applied to all Adult rated Estate SIMS too, which will be significantly larger in size & numbers than Zindra.


Now my own experience. I opened a Commercial centre on the Garmisch SIM (in the old mainland snow Region) about a year ago. The SIM itself has a mature rating.
On that plot of land i have 5 shops present....3 supplying Mature content and 2 supplying Kids (PG) content. They have happily co-existed during that time....yes, Kids will TP over there as well as Adults. I also have an Ice Skating rink for Public use. Not once during that year did i receive an IM, a notecard or a complaint from either Adult avie or Kiddie avie of being harassed or griefed. I can assure you some of the female visitors would have been scantily clad. (e.g Karija). Bottom line...there was and is happy co-existence.


Myself and other businesses are keen to buy Zindra land at some point.
I realise not being a Adult Content creator , I won't be included in the first wave of occupants (I do not qualify for Land swaps). If you're a PG content supplier.....a smart business would want to place shops on PG, Mature and Adult regions.....to attract all 3 audiences under 3 different search settings. That way you don't cut off a percentage of SL userbase.
There's also another reason, because age verification can mean placing CC payment details.....its safe to assume that the highest density of PIOF per sqm will most likely be on Zindra. PIOF means they can buy Lindens ....so means real shoppers to a business. It would be foolish to ignore this long-term if you're in the business of making sales.


So say a XXX Business fails and places their land for sale and i buy it......i have the option of whatever Content as I see fit to be sold on that land. In theory i could re-create the 5 shop arrangement on Garmisch on Zindra too.....there is absolutely no one that could stop me from doing so....not even the lynch mob or any of my new neighbours (Disclaimer : providing LL does not amend conditions to Adult rated land)

However Common sense would prevail......as i wouldn't do it. I would not place the 2 kids shops for a couple of reasons :

- I would not want to create the possibility of having a Kid's avie subjected to uncomfortable conditions and harming their shopping experience. Witnessing the lynch mob & AR'ing mentality on the XStreet forums i would be very foolish to do so.

- I could possibility harm my own reputation as a vendor of Kids products within the SL kids community. Why should they run the gauntlet, when i can provide a safer experience on PG & Mature rated lands.?


So my final conclusion surrounding Zindra.....things will naturally sort themselves out.
Sure there will be hiccups and the rogue incident.......but no more than an Adult avie running around naked in a PG sim or kids area.


I would like LIAS to comment on my post.

Sure I have no problem if I got something wrong, using the word "they" did include you. But how about you, don't you owe a few apologies around the place.

Yep I do think you need banning, that you will AR someones pose balls because you don't like them and think that is ok... isn't ok, it's as unstable as Lias.

facts are like krptonite to lias, if you keep hitting her with it long enough, she might just explode.

Or mutate into a new and more terrifying form.

I have, on occasion, apologized to people in threads on this forum, and will do so again if I think an apology is warranted.

I didn't AR pose balls because I "didn't like them"; were that my criterion, I would be a very busy woman indeed. I ARed them because I believed they were in violation of LL policy. I wouldn't report anything that I didn't think wasn't. Do you REALLY believe that ARing pose balls that are violations is a banning offence? That seems to rather obviate the point of the mechanism, doesn't it? And surely that represents an attack on MY freedom of expression? Isn't this sort of the SL equivalent of saying I should be shot for my views?

And for the record, I have issued exactly 6 ARs in my nearly year-long stay in LL, and two of those had absolutely nothing to do with adult content. So I am hardly cutting a swath across SL, am I? I'm afraid I'm a pretty wimpy "vigilante."

They were harmless, "forced doggy" poseball or some similar name is something YOU don't like and no it's not a violation of the ToS.

Did they get banned btw? I don't remember hearing.

It's not nice to be AR'ed or banned or attacked or anything for what you are about, be it poseballs or ideas is it? Do you realise your asking for people to accept that you are going to do that to them if you disapprove of their sexuality.

Well, "harmless" is a matter of opinion, isn't it? The thing about ARs is that it is not ultimately MY call as to whether they get banned or not: LL makes that determination. It's not as though I am orbiting people or dropping bombs: I am asking LL to make the determination of whether they are, or are not, a violation of policy. And I accept their decision.

I don't know whether they got banned or not, to be honest. I rather suspect not: LL has not been very good at enforcing this stuff, despite the fact that depictions of rape were banned in 2007.

I am still not quite sure why ARing someone's poseballs threatens their freedom of expression, whereas your suggestion that I should face a permanent ban for employing SL's own reporting mechanisms apparently doesn't.

It is illegal to depict children in sexalized situations. This thread has nothing to do with the player behind these child toons. The thread is not about restricting the rights of players who participate within SL as child toons.

No one ever claimed that everyone at Zindra was a child pedophile.

This thread is not about being "against child avatars".

Welcome to the party and feel free to read the rest of the thread, Proxima Saenz.

Well why do you threaten peoples freedom in Sl by ARing their poseballs or in other words, sexualities.