if only "SL Answers" wasn't no reply....

Campers that are on premium accoutns and camp do = parasites as they get money weekly. Basic accoutns with no money i can see a purpose for it. And joshua read this. She states in 2 EMPTY sims this would be the case. Not 2 sims full of stuff. If Sim A has 20 people and that sim is horribly scripted where as Sim B has the same number of people and is better scripted Sim B will perform better. The fact i ran into a sim that wasnt a private island that ran better with more people was to simply show that there are other circumstances in that sim other then people. We've hit 37 people in butler which while it did cause some client side lag for people it didnt effect the sim stats.

Day after this stuff with the sims started and now its been woefully unstable since. Maeve my problem with the campers are leaches thing is that how are they supposed to get some start up money. People are like go escort or whatever. Ummmmmmm pardon but alot of places require a certain loook to work there and most guys wont hire a girl who's in a newbie skin without prim hair and stuff. Most of the jobs in SL require money to be spent. I could see mabye saying they were leaches if they got some money weekly but alas they dont. Before LL removed alot of what they did yeah i agree leeches galore but that opinion has changed when stuff went unverified and the basic accounts essentially got screwed.

Yeah the people doing it for a traffic boost are a little well =/. If i ever made camping chairs it'd be to give out the money but i can do that without the need of camping chairs. His scripts are lag inducing in the case of dosojin not the amount of people in that Sim. And if we take Maeves statement here at that value she is stating that your sim since it has less people shouldnt be inducing more lag then a sim with more people as well.

Your right, I'm such a bad guy for providing free $ to those who need it (out of my pocket). Providing a meeting place people can go and talk to people, drawing traffic into an area thus increasing the sales of those around me who aren't paying anything out of their pocket.. And those resources should all sit there unused because someone may one day rent a tiny plot in the sim and whine about the campers when he had 1000+ other sims to choose from..

Yes, prehaps you feel LL should get all those server payments (they make an ungodly ammount per server) and have them all sit idle.. Sure it's not LL's fault for not making their system more integrated so server load is shared between servers.. I read a comment in an article from someone from LL who stated "We get paid for all those servers either way". Oh, it doesn't matter that the resources are going to sit idle and unused if there aren't campers. Oh, it doesn't matter that the campers aren't the main cause of the sim's problems, I have a sim with 30 people in a sim right now and it's humming right along..

It's also not LL's fault for having a system which encourages the use of camping chairs.. Let's face it, LL loves the idea of being able to tell perspective customers "make money while you sleep", we all know that's their main marketing pitch is making $.. Nope its totally my fault for doing what I have to do to compete, nothing on LL for making me have to..

Nope, I'm the asshole for paying out $600USD per month, dispite my presence doesn't prevent anyone from their enjoyment of SL, and infact BENEFITS HUNDREDS of SL residents.

Yea, lets all jump my case because as we all know I make the rules, and if you run me off oh yea, that'll learn everyone, all the camping chairs in SL will go away, because as we all know, I'm the biggest guy in SL..

You people are predijuiced against camping chairs, lag or AV limits aren't the issue, you just hate camping chairs and refuse to acknowledge the fact that of hundreds of EMPTY sims it is nice to have a few where there are actually people. Nope, I'm the asshole for doing business as I always have without a psychic reguard that someone may rent in the sim one day and all of a sudden have a problem with what I do and have to change..

I should change anytime someone rents in the sim, it doesn't matter there are 1000 empty sims the person could have chosen and been happy, nope, I'm the asshole..

Happy?

=)

I give up trying to explain this to you. Think whatever you'd like. Happy end-of-forum day!

Nobody talks in your sim man. Nobody plays your casino games except like one or two people. It's filled with 20 empty bodies.

C'mon. Let's make out.

Camping isn't about helping newbies though, it's about getting your shop/casino/house of ill fame on the Popular places list. If people who had camp chairs truly wanted to help people they'd donate the cash to newbie helping programs like The Shelter and NCI, or just wander around SL giving people under 30 days $100L, or Having a money tree, all solutions to helping new people that don't use up sim resources like mad.

Im simply pointing out your tactics are no better then his. Yours may be different but they arnt any more right then you claim his things to be. Its a cold hard truth and im not hopless to talk to i've tried to explain some very subtle concepts that almost everyone in SL can grasp. A sim with 20 people should out perform a sim with close to 40 people plain and simple nothing to argue about. Unless sim with 20 people is overly scripted it will always out perform sim with close to 40. Thats what im trying to point out there is nothing hopless about it its fact. Its not made up you can even go ask a linden if you feel the need to. I know what im talking about in that aspect. Lets use an example of the club me and my partner run.

We took time to script the entire club ourselves to make the scripts low lag. We also dont have a ton of lag inducing devices or things that are tossing out a ton of free money with a ton of particles and rotating things and what not. Now we can have 20 people there without any problems (except as of late with the problem acknowledged by LL) and I can go to another place with the same number of people that is overly scripted and it will perform worse. Its quite an easy concept to grasp yet you seem to think im wrong for stating it.

There are other circumstances in that sim that are lagging the sim and as i have stated they are likely COMING FROM THE CAMPING PADS. That actually freaking supports your argument yet you just want it to be about the people being in the sim dont you?

Yea, I should go broke just handing out $ unstead of using my abilities to create a system which benefits everyone.. Your right, SL should be full of thousands of empty sims, your right, there isn't enough VIRTUAL LAND in SL for everyone.. Unbelieveable..

How about making things in SL people truly enjoy and have fun with rather than leaving their poor avs slumped over like zombies 24/7

I do... The thing is I'm not so full of myself that I believe anyone who doesn't is useless..

How about LL giving me a reason to? It's their game, I'm just a player..

Hmm.



I may be mistaken but I believe that the "friend" was there before you, when there was a club there.

Also, I wonder how you pay out 600 USD, with about 50 USD land usage cost, and the camp pads outputting such a pitiful amount, and the games I've read the hovertext of all indicate a profit for you..

You're not supposed to ask questions like that, he's a generous and giving member of the community

And your a fair and unbiased moderator..

I haven't used a single moderator power in this thread, I'm giving my opinion, I'm allowed to have one. unfair would have been locking this thread for the death threat you made and moving it to the Korean forum.

Thats true but at the same time not all camping chairs may be about the traffic. Its generalizing it into a subset saying because most are like that all are like that. The fact is this guy isnt even on the popular places list at all. Yet josh used a statment that he said that he had to do it to stay on popular list as a defense. If there were true he hasnt been on the pop list ever as far as i've seen. Yes the majority of camping chairs out there are about getting a little popularity. The Traffic on Search All Doesnt even show anymore unless you look at the picture of the place and look under it.

Dosojin is far from an unbearable sim i've been in much worse sims that didnt have camping chairs and while they do pull resources there are plenty of other places that are pulling loads more of resources from a sim. Im just acknowleding the fact there are other circumstances for that sim lagging the way it does. Josh is pointing the finger as it all being cuz of the people and wont acknowledge the other factors so im simply wrong for for knowing that there are other factors. A sim shouldnt hit under 10 fps and .2 dil with 10-20 people there unless something is woefully wrong. Outside scripts does work to a degree that depends however. If you to to that location no your ao wont wok. If you fly into that location with your ao on it will work but it will be stuck at that stance unless you fly up to a certain height.

Most stay on if you enter from outside that area from elsewhere. All i want to say is i've been to that sim and i had little to no trouble when it was actually running right. It seems more likely that its a victim of the current trend of unstable sims but wont really know that until the linden's release a fix.

Until then I suppose yall can just blame me.. And yes, I am a damn generous person. Sorry you all have a problem with the system LL setup, but ragging on me or making unreasonable demands won't solve the problem.. Nor will vandalizing my building, posting private IMs in a public forum, constantly having the sim rebooted, sending IMs to all the campers telling them to get a job.. It doesn't matter if you think I'm wrong for operating by the system LL setup, I think your wrong for bitching about it.. And a litteny of TOS violations to harass & grief me isn't a damn bit better even if I was..

Yes the games can equal a profit for him but its no more pitiful then the amount of most places. Thats also if the people choose to play his casino games if not they just walk away. Someone taking advantage of the camping system would of been that Virtua games thing. They had the chairs that started out as like 1L/10 mins then you could increase the multiplier by playing the games. He could be purchasing alot of L and he has another location by the way. L does cost money and if people are there all day he could very well be out like 1500L a day easily. So he is likely spending it on that.

Guido Maeve is allowed to give her opinion as a moderator she hasnt abused anything in the context of that she is posting as a normal person. I like her even though i may not agree on this matter with her she's a nice person. I do agree that camping is off but i was pointing out other circumstances for the lag. Josh was trying to peg it on people but it performed the same with 20 people or 10. Which proved to me beyond any doubt that there was something else going on in that sim. If no one can grasp that is a problem itself. Because its pretty plain to see if you checked the sim as many times as i did over the last few days and compared it to similar places.

Again, my point wasn't heard, or more than likely - didn't want to be heard. The argument in defense of camping chairs is tantamount that used by land swoopers, or as Lina stated it, "Camping does in a sense abuse the system but its not cheating the system its using a means to work inside the system as koy a method as it is but its still within the bounds of the system."

The essential underlining meaning in plain English: It doesn't specifically break the TOS, damn you all if you think it is unethical.

I think Maeve replied best to the smoke and mirror defense that camping exists merely to help poor newbies:

He gives them money no matter how small the amount its worth something to the people using the camping system. Maeve lets just say you were new to SL couldnt afford a premium account or to buy L in any context. Lets say had verified and got that 250L. Now lets also say that you would like to shop and get a bit of clothing. Now you can get 2 great hair styles over at panache for 10L (in numerous colors to we both know that ^^) A skin taht is decent you can get freely. Semi decent outfits at upload fee's only but also varies on your style shoes then im not sure if a cheap place for decent shoes however alot are 200L +. Now your likely done but if you bought an outfit you may or may not have the L for shoes depending.

Now you got some stuff but what of the unverified account has no start up money at all. Money tree's rez very little money for them to get unless they wait around for awhile and work on donations. Thus the camping chairs are appealing in that aspect. The people dont know it'll have an adverse effect on the sim most of the time they just want some extra cash. I dont view it as leaching in that aspect because quite simply they have nothing. I can sympathize with them. Yes the people that do it to gain traffic are horrid. Does everyone do it for traffic? No not everyone does but it ends up looking that way if alot of people show up.

I know i for one am not the best builder in SL so i wouldnt be able to make alot i'm still learning how to build. I do make textures and tattoos and am panning into more building and actually doing clothing. I wouldnt post something that i knew was unfounded but it'd take josh acknowledging that other factors are a bigger cause of the problems in that sim. 10 people shouldnt lag as much as 20 plain and simple.

No, just if you think it is unethical, you lack the ability to consider the positive aspects.. Nope, camping is 100% bad, no redeming qualities.. Doesn't matter if your not affecting me, your still allowing campers, and thats bad.. Camping is bad because camping is bad and I dont need another reason.. Why can't everyone just see things my way? Why can't people get a job? I mean damn, I should be able to go into any sim in SL and be the only person in there.. I don't like crowded places so there shouldn't be any, I don't like camping spots so I think I'll rent land in the same sim as one and bitch about it..

Nope, nobody's being an asshole for harassing an established business thats been in existance for months, he should be able to rent land in ANY sim he wants and dictate how that sim should be run..

Nope, it doesn't matter that the land values around the biggest camping spots skyrocket, I'd rather hold my land and bitch about the lag than sell it for a huge profit and buy land I'd actually be happy in.. How dare that asshole come in here and spend HUNDREDS to bring people into this sim where my products are more likely to get sold? Ass-hats always raising my property values! Quit ruining SL!

Wasnt a smoke and mirror defense i was stating thats why camping should exist. I also made a statement towards guido that if he was doing it for traffic he was doing it for the wrong reasons. Most places arnt doing it to help newbies sadly and if someone is geniunly doing it to help newbies but running a business (ie a casino or club) at the same location they are branded in the same way. I gather what you mean but at the same time LL could regulate the system to. We'll know who is in it to help newbies and who isnt when a better traffic system is devised. I hate the people that get on pop list with camping but i do see a conductive point to having camping at the same time. The argument to get rid of them would be so much easier if money were easier to get by an unverified account.

Fact is it isnt though =/. They end up having to do that even to get enough to get a job. Is it wrong for them to want money to be able to do something cuz they cant afford to pay 10 bucks a month or any type of monthly fee and may not have credit? Casino's and clubs actually end up losing alot of money even if they do have things to make some profit. Me and my partner are out about 235 usd a month For Land and a music stream. We'd be better off putting our money into paypal and getting a full private sim it'd actually save us about 10 bucks a month. Yeah we make a tiny bit back but that is put right back out into advertising or things to make the club better for everyone. Its not a huge amount and we trade non of it back into USD to help pay out tier. We have no rental spots, arnt affiliated with a radio station and have no financial backing other then us two. Not everyone in SL is in it to turn a profit or be popular.

We have traffic between 5-10K and we dont care because the people that are coming are coming for genuine reasons not money, not cuz we're popular. They come cuz they like it. Money isnt needed to help out newbies but newbies do appreciate having some money to their name. Hell a basic account if not verified cant even afford to upload an item and that is kinda sad.

Guido let's make out.

Well I work it out at about $500 USD a month for 25 chairs with 24/7 usage, which is more than what you pay out, since I often see about 15 people using them at low-activity times.

Don't boast about you being here first, you having bigger land, you spending all this money to "help the newbies". With the last one certainly not being true.

Ah, FINALLY, we see your TRUE agenda!

It's got absolutely nothing to do with it being crowded. It's WHY it's crowded. Yeah, if I had my shop right next to a music theatre that was constantly doing free performances, it'd suck to build, but hey, my shop's next to something good.

There's a huge difference between that and a laggy casino with a bunch of dead bodies for players.

And I didn't IM anyone to tell them to get a job. I merely IMed your patrons and told them what camping is and how bad it is for the sim. And I might've suggested a few places that has better rates.

And the land values around the biggest camping spots DROP. Everyone who's come to see the plot you have for sale has JOKED about the price you're asking for.

Plus you grossly inflate the amount of money you pay out. If you really do give that much then I want you to email me an excel spreadsheet from the month of August. You can easily download one under your account and transaction history. If you really do pay that much then I'll shut up.

Though I'm sure you do pay out substantially more than you take in. Cos newbie campers don't play casino games.